SSR 4-pin crank hub vs. Insane Performance 4 pin crank hub

[Singham14]

Hey all,

Sorry if there is a post already out there regarding my question, but I couldn't find it. I am going in for my crank hub upgrade and just wanted to see what others have to say about SSR performance hub vs. Insane performance 4 pin crank hub. I am leaning towards the Insane performance 4 pin as it's a little cheaper and also one piece vs. two pieces and I also have the crank bolt capture.

Thanks

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by Singham14

Hey all,

Sorry if there is a post already out there regarding my question, but I couldn't find it. I am going in for my crank hub upgrade and just wanted to see what others have to say about SSR performance hub vs. Insane performance 4 pin crank hub. I am leaning towards the Insane performance 4 pin as it's a little cheaper and also one piece vs. two pieces and I also have the crank bolt capture.

Thanks

Curious why you want to do a full crank hub while you already have CBC? So far no one has reported failure with CBC.

[Singham14]

Stories and piece of mind....might build the car out after.

Originally Posted by N1rve

Curious why you want to do a full crank hub while you already have CBC? So far no one has reported failure with CBC.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Singham14

Hey all,

Sorry if there is a post already out there regarding my question, but I couldn't find it. I am going in for my crank hub upgrade and just wanted to see what others have to say about SSR performance hub vs. Insane performance 4 pin crank hub. I am leaning towards the Insane performance 4 pin as it's a little cheaper and also one piece vs. two pieces and I also have the crank bolt capture.

Thanks

The SSR hub is a 2 piece vs the Insane which is a 1 piece. The 2 piece hub eliminates the need to drop the oil pan, while the 1 pc requires dropping the oil pan and possibly the sub-frame in order to get the oil pump chain on the hub properly.

If you are doing the crank hub yourself, a 2 piece would be easier. If you are having a shop do the hub, i'm sure the 2 piece hub would cost less in labor/parts.

Originally Posted by N1rve

Curious why you want to do a full crank hub while you already have CBC? So far no one has reported failure with CBC.

Yes there have been crank hub failures with a CBC. I personally know of a few.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

The SSR hub is a 2 piece vs the Insane which is a 1 piece. The 2 piece hub eliminates the need to drop the oil pan, while the 1 pc requires dropping the oil pan and possibly the sub-frame in order to get the oil pump chain on the hub properly.

If you are doing the crank hub yourself, a 2 piece would be easier. If you are having a shop do the hub, i'm sure the 2 piece hub would cost less in labor/parts.



Yes there have been crank hub failures with a CBC. I personally know of a few.

Did you ever share this news on this thread?

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...597456&page=12

What I've been reading is that people think CBC is enough and don't need the full keying of the crankhub because no one has reported a failure yet.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

Yes there have been crank hub failures with a CBC. I personally know of a few.

Could you provide details (power level, other mods, circumstances)? It would be helpful for this board

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Could you provide details (power level, other mods, circumstances)? It would be helpful for this board

They were running upgraded turbos and E85, so it was a higher power level

[Kossos]

I am running the SSR and can say it is legit. The tolerances are really tight for the keyed part of the two sprockets and its overall very well machined. I was really impressed.

Here's my post: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1802090

[Kossos]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

The 2 piece hub eliminates the need to drop the oil pan

You have to drop the oil pan and subframe for the SSR.

"The install process requires you to follow the factory disassembly process until the timing gear, oil pump gear, and crank hub are removed. You will also need to remove the oil pan prior to drilling the snout of the crank. We recommend taking the valve cover off before suspending the engine to drop the front subframe and oil pan."

Source: https://www.ssrperformance.com/pages...l-instructions

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Kossos

You have to drop the oil pan and subframe for the SSR.

"The install process requires you to follow the factory disassembly process until the timing gear, oil pump gear, and crank hub are removed. You will also need to remove the oil pan prior to drilling the snout of the crank. We recommend taking the valve cover off before suspending the engine to drop the front subframe and oil pan."

Source: https://www.ssrperformance.com/pages...l-instructions

Having installed a few 1 and 2 piece crank hubs myself, I can definitely install a 2 piece hub without dropping the oil pan.

Its possible SSR recommends it just incase any metal shavings find their way into the oil pan during drilling.

[aBMWfan]

Chet is very spot-on. Why I chose him for tuning my set-up

Going beyond stage 2 OTS with E85, full ch solution highly recommended.

Possible metal shavings from drilling is why oil pan drops when SSR does their hub.

[TopJimmy]

+1 on everything Chet said.

Only reason I can see to pick IP is you have the motor all apart for a bottom end build. Even at crazy power levels it's still very unlikely you'd have any problem with a separate oiling sprocket, since it doesn't carry as much mass as the timing/VANOS chain does.

My hub is the MaxPSI style 4-pin (2-piece) done by Kies.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

They were running upgraded turbos and E85, so it was a higher power level

Pureturbos pushing ~800WHP? Someone mentioned it before but not the owner personally. Would like to know the full story.

[Kossos]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Even at crazy power levels it's still very unlikely you'd have any problem with a separate oiling sprocket

Totally. With the MaxPSI/SSR and a bolt catch I'll be breaking rods before the crank hub fails.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Precision dynamics 1 piece large single key for me. Problem with the 4 pin is the installation of the drilling has to be completely perfect or it’ll fail. I don’t wanna call out any shops but they’ve repaired a good amount of 4 pins already due to improper drilling. With their crankhub there’s no worry about improper drilling because the large key mushrooms inside and there’s plenty of room for allowance and imperfections while the 4 pin must be perfect or you’ll spin.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by SpecialEdition_F87

Precision dynamics 1 piece large single key for me. Problem with the 4 pin is the installation of the drilling has to be completely perfect or it’ll fail. I don’t wanna call out any shops but they’ve repaired a good amount of 4 pins already due to improper drilling. With their crankhub there’s no worry about improper drilling because the large key mushrooms inside and there’s plenty of room for allowance and imperfections while the 4 pin must be perfect or you’ll spin.

I actually never saw this version before. Interesting

https://mashimarho.com/products/prec...yway-crank-hub

The more I think about it, I think the VTT v2 solution is the way to go. Rather than rely on 2 or 4 pins to secure the hub, with the possibility of installation fail, the interference fit of the VTT unit makes more sense. Like a lot of little teeth digging in. That with the CBC just seems to make more sense.

The large keyway of the PD unit is also kinda weird but maybe with more units out there, we will get more reviews.

[PhatLyfe]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

+1 on everything Chet said.

Only reason I can see to pick IP is you have the motor all apart for a bottom end build. Even at crazy power levels it's still very unlikely you'd have any problem with a separate oiling sprocket, since it doesn't carry as much mass as the timing/VANOS chain does.

My hub is the MaxPSI style 4-pin (2-piece) done by Kies.

Yeah I was thinking either MaxPsi or the RKtunes hub, both are carried at Kies.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I actually never saw this version before. Interesting

https://mashimarho.com/products/prec...yway-crank-hub

The more I think about it, I think the VTT v2 solution is the way to go. Rather than rely on 2 or 4 pins to secure the hub, with the possibility of installation fail, the interference fit of the VTT unit makes more sense. Like a lot of little teeth digging in. That with the CBC just seems to make more sense.

The large keyway of the PD unit is also kinda weird but maybe with more units out there, we will get more reviews.

I watched parts of this long precision dynamics crank hub install video where the installer talks about the pros and cons of each type of crank hub fix. His conclusion on the VTT one is that it is a good design that will work well, but if you have to remove the crank hub in the future to service the timing chain or guide, it would be a super PITA to remove b/c it is force pressed into place with hundreds of ft lbs of force and require front end disassembly and then using something that can pull out that crank hub. I can't even fathom what could be used to remove the VTT crankhub if you had to in the future.

See about 42:10 into this video. Starting around the 37 minute mark he talks about the pros and cons of each crank hub design.

FWIW, I already have the SSR 4 pin crankhub installed so I'm not buying or selling, but if I were to do it again today, I'd probably go with precision dynamics.

[mike@x-ph.com]

We offer both and they are both very popular. We never had an issue with either one. Check with your vendor on the best deal and get it

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

I watched parts of this long precision dynamics crank hub install video where the installer talks about the pros and cons of each type of crank hub fix. His conclusion on the VTT one is that it is a good design that will work well, but if you have to remove the crank hub in the future to service the timing chain or guide, it would be a super PITA to remove b/c it is force pressed into place with hundreds of ft lbs of force and require front end disassembly and then using something that can pull out that crank hub. I can't even fathom what could be used to remove the VTT crankhub if you had to in the future.

There are not a lot of reasons to remove a hub, but we sell a tool to remove it should you want to. It's inexpensive and easy to use -not unlike a bearing puller.

Chris

[M2_MEDUSA]

Due to no failures under 600whp I’ll only be going with the CBC. If I decide to upgrade the turbos which is slim to no chance I’ll go with a spline lock v2 or a 4 pin. But as of now makes no sence to drop 4k when data backs up zero failures with a CBC under 6

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by SpecialEdition_F87

Due to no failures under 600whp I’ll only be going with the CBC. If I decide to upgrade the turbos which is slim to no chance I’ll go with a spline lock v2 or a 4 pin. But as of now makes no sence to drop 4k when data backs up zero failures with a CBC under 6

Please re-read what I stated. I haven't seen any CBC only failures under 600 whp in the past year. That is a very different statement than "there are no failures under 600 whp". There have been CBC only failures, none posted on this forum but we've (VTT and affiliated shops that I'd have visibility into) have seen them. The complete solution is and always has been to address both means of crank hub deficiencies, which is vibe (CBC) and insufficient torque capability even with appropriate bolt torque (hub).

This gets twisted and posted, and re-posted by those looking to assuage their own concerns, and pretty soon it ends up with "you're promised to not have any issues as long as you are under 600 whp". Simply isn't true -just that I haven't seen any in the past year. Could be that most of the S55's being tuned and aggressively driven have already slipped and had the whole package replaced... could have been dealt with at other shops, lots of factors and possibilities. My observations were offered as a courtesy to be used with a grain of salt from my (limited) observation viewpoint, nothing more. Time does tend to weed out the frequency of occurrences, simply because the platform is aging.

Cheers,
Chris