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      04-20-2021, 02:49 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Uh, tough call.
Quaker State is GTL based, which is cutting-edge technology when it comes to base stocks. However, Valvoline makes super stout oils in this category using hydrocracked base stocks. IMO, since both carry actual Porsche A40 approval, they will do well on track.
Also, do not forget, in N55 and S55 engines LL01 is not that important now. LL01 was updated in 2018 to address N20/26 issues and increase OCI, which eliminated most of 0W oils in the category where HTHS has to be over 3.5.
Castrol 0W40 to me would be go to cheap oil for F80 on track unless you going some boutique oils like Motul Sport or 300V. In reality, you really cannot go wrong with any of these oils. To add, since you are using the car on the street and track, street oils are more desirable and not boutique, like 300V.
As for QS Ultra DUrability or just Euro, it is Pennzoil. Pennzoil is notoriously inconsistent with marketing, PDS, and MSDS. On their website they are now advertising as Quaker State Euro, but the link to PDS takes you to Quaker State Ultra Durability. So, Euro is what they sell now I guess. Maybe that is Pennzoil's attack on Mobil1 and Castrol in Wal Mart, hence price.
Thanks so much for your help! I will probably stick with QS and Valvoline euro (whatever walmart has in stock at the time) because I have an extended warranty and am a bit paranoid that they would ask for proof of using an LL-01 oil if there is an engine issue.
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      04-20-2021, 10:06 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVM3 View Post
Thanks so much for your help! I will probably stick with QS and Valvoline euro (whatever walmart has in stock at the time) because I have an extended warranty and am a bit paranoid that they would ask for proof of using an LL-01 oil if there is an engine issue.
Usually, they won't require proof (I had a failure of part on X5 35d that could be caused by oil, and they just asked me what I use and I did use LL04, which was required for M57 engine).
But, still, sticking to LL01 would be my choice too.
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      04-20-2021, 10:54 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
The fact that Molygen does not have any approval, should tell you everything you need to know.
He's likely talking about LM synthoil race tech 10w60 for E46 M3 track car, which does carry API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
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      04-20-2021, 11:59 PM   #114
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So what's the consensus here?
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      04-21-2021, 12:29 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
He's likely talking about LM synthoil race tech 10w60 for E46 M3 track car, which does carry API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
I know I was referring to the 10w60, but I believe mister was not.
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      04-21-2021, 08:08 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
He's likely talking about LM synthoil race tech 10w60 for E46 M3 track car, which does carry API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
I was referring to Molygen 5W40 which has recommendations and not approvals, maybe he was referring to 10W60.
Regardless, there is a big difference in the way companies use language to explain where oil should be used and "recommended" and "meets or exceeds requirements" is not the same as approval.
ACEA is not approval. ACEA sequence does not require approval, and blenders are allowed to use "self-testing" to determine whether oil is compatible with ACEA sequence. Since ACEA is the starting point for European approvals, it is the least stringent and not particularly hard to achieve.
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      04-21-2021, 09:13 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
He's likely talking about LM synthoil race tech 10w60 for E46 M3 track car, which does carry API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
I was referring to Molygen 5W40 which has recommendations and not approvals, maybe he was referring to 10W60.
Regardless, there is a big difference in the way companies use language to explain where oil should be used and "recommended" and "meets or exceeds requirements" is not the same as approval.
ACEA is not approval. ACEA sequence does not require approval, and blenders are allowed to use "self-testing" to determine whether oil is compatible with ACEA sequence. Since ACEA is the starting point for European approvals, it is the least stringent and not particularly hard to achieve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walmart Parking Lot View Post
So what's the consensus here?
Anything that is LL01 approved. Personally, I went with Liqui Moly 5w40 leichtlauf with FCPEuro lifetime replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
He's likely talking about LM synthoil race tech 10w60 for E46 M3 track car, which does carry API SN and ACEA A3/B4.
I was referring to Molygen 5W40 which has recommendations and not approvals, maybe he was referring to 10W60.
Regardless, there is a big difference in the way companies use language to explain where oil should be used and "recommended" and "meets or exceeds requirements" is not the same as approval.
ACEA is not approval. ACEA sequence does not require approval, and blenders are allowed to use "self-testing" to determine whether oil is compatible with ACEA sequence. Since ACEA is the starting point for European approvals, it is the least stringent and not particularly hard to achieve.
I was referring to liqui moly 5w40 leichtlauf.
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      04-21-2021, 11:43 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterF80M3 View Post
Anything that is LL01 approved. Personally, I went with Liqui Moly 5w40 leichtlauf with FCPEuro lifetime replacement.



I was referring to liqui moly 5w40 leichtlauf.
There is also an option of Pentosin 5w40 from FCP, which seems to carry LL01 approval. Tempted to try it out.
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      04-21-2021, 12:58 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterF80M3 View Post
Anything that is LL01 approved. Personally, I went with Liqui Moly 5w40 leichtlauf with FCPEuro lifetime replacement.



I was referring to liqui moly 5w40 leichtlauf.
There is also an option of Pentosin 5w40 from FCP, which seems to carry LL01 approval. Tempted to try it out.
I would also like to hear what edycol thinks about Pentosin and their different LL01 offerings
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      04-21-2021, 09:43 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rborane View Post
I would also like to hear what edycol thinks about Pentosin and their different LL01 offerings
I would go Pentosin before LM.
It was one of the more popular oils for some time. But US market for Pentosin was always an afterthought. Now that Fuchs owns them (Fuchs is the largest manufacturer of industrial lubricants in Germany) they are slowly changing their approach.
Oversized Made in Germany letters are also on the bottle
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      04-22-2021, 06:17 PM   #121
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Weird that their super performance 5w-40 has a flash point of 200C.
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      04-22-2021, 10:27 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Weird that their super performance 5w-40 has a flash point of 200C.
Did you check which ASTM they are using to determine flashpoint? I cannot see which methodology they are using. It is Porsche A40 approved, which means good for the track.
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      04-26-2021, 09:01 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Did you check which ASTM they are using to determine flashpoint? I cannot see which methodology they are using. It is Porsche A40 approved, which means good for the track.
Looked at the SDS and nothing. They do emphasize that it is thermostable and is for extended drain interval. Tempted to try and send it in for UOA.
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      04-27-2021, 03:14 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Looked at the SDS and nothing. They do emphasize that it is thermostable and is for extended drain interval. Tempted to try and send it in for UOA.
For example, Castrol 0W40 has a bit lower flash point than M1 0W40, but they use different ASTM. M1 is D92 and Castrol D93.
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      04-28-2021, 12:12 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
For example, Castrol 0W40 has a bit lower flash point than M1 0W40, but they use different ASTM. M1 is D92 and Castrol D93.
They must be using D93 then, as super performance lineup is relatively recent.
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      04-28-2021, 12:56 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
There is a guy on Bitog that goes by edyvw, would that be you? You post things that seem similar to what edyvw posts on bitog. If so, I damn well appreciate the way your mind works when it comes to oil.

If you are the same guy, I am glad you post about oil here as well. So many people blindly follow friends recommendations / brands / weights of oil that I just defer them to bitog search engine.

I usually just find a good LL01 oil and call it a day (last 15 years have all been Castrol / Mobil 1 0w40 on my BMWs with influence by your posts)

Last year I picked up Ravenol 0w40 SSL when it was still LL01 approved but now it also isn't LL01 approved and just recommended. Will still use up what I have and go try Motul 5w40 X-cess Gen 2 LL01. 0w40 LL-01 seems to be a disappearing trend - not impressed with Liquimoly / Castrol 5w40 LL-01 oils vs the Castrol 0w30/40s. Only gripe about LL01 are the full saps causing more carbon buildup.

Guess right now OE BMW TPT 5w30 - seems to fit the bill as a good oil all around for the F8X.
I've also been running Ravenol SSL 0W-40 (LL-01) and am planning on switching to Motul 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40 since it has been revised for LL-01 (2018) and appears to be pretty stout. In fact, the KV40 and KV100 values of the Motul are pretty similar to the Ravenol, but the Motul has a 0.1 cP higher HTHS as well.

I was looking at Ravenol VST 5W-40 (LL-01) too but its KV40 and KV100 values are notably higher (like X-cess gen1), given that HTHS is only 3.9 cP vs. 3.8 cP for Motul gen2. Not sure if it might be getting too thick for a lightly modded N55/S55. JamesGames edycol What do you think about the Ravenol VST 5W-40? Would you still prefer the Motul gen2?

TIA!
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      04-28-2021, 01:53 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabacrOne View Post
I've also been running Ravenol SSL 0W-40 (LL-01) and am planning on switching to Motul 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40 since it has been revised for LL-01 (2018) and appears to be pretty stout. In fact, the KV40 and KV100 values of the Motul are pretty similar to the Ravenol, but the Motul has a 0.1 cP higher HTHS as well.

I was looking at Ravenol VST 5W-40 (LL-01) too but its KV40 and KV100 values are notably higher (like X-cess gen1), given that HTHS is only 3.9 cP vs. 3.8 cP for Motul gen2. Not sure if it might be getting too thick for a lightly modded N55/S55. JamesGames edycol What do you think about the Ravenol VST 5W-40? Would you still prefer the Motul gen2?

TIA!
Personally, I trust Motul more. But Ravenol's numbers look exceptional. Very low Noack (means really stout thermal stability), very low Pour point (indicates a lot of PAO).
So, IMO, any of those two will do exceptionally well.
You might try both, do UOA and see how it looks.
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      04-28-2021, 02:09 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Personally, I trust Motul more. But Ravenol's numbers look exceptional. Very low Noack (means really stout thermal stability), very low Pour point (indicates a lot of PAO).
So, IMO, any of those two will do exceptionally well.
You might try both, do UOA and see how it looks.
Thanks - I'm debating trying the Ravenol. My car seemed to like their 0W-40 (I've yet to do a UOA on it). Like you mentioned, only thing that's got me apprehensive is the variation and viscosity drop in UOAs for the VST on European forums, even with the newer UVSO version. And Motul is more easily available through different vendors and for cheaper than the Ravenol.

One question I have though - the Ravenol 0W-40 is majority PAO and the Motul gen2 is purely HC - will there be any issues with mixing these oils? There will be some residual oil in the oil cooler and lines so should I fully flush Ravenol out of the engine before adding Motul or is this not an issue?
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      04-28-2021, 03:03 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabacrOne View Post
Thanks - I'm debating trying the Ravenol. My car seemed to like their 0W-40 (I've yet to do a UOA on it). Like you mentioned, only thing that's got me apprehensive is the variation and viscosity drop in UOAs for the VST on European forums, even with the newer UVSO version. And Motul is more easily available through different vendors and for cheaper than the Ravenol.

One question I have though - the Ravenol 0W-40 is majority PAO and the Motul gen2 is purely HC - will there be any issues with mixing these oils? There will be some residual oil in the oil cooler and lines so should I fully flush Ravenol out of the engine before adding Motul or is this not an issue?
So all API oils must be able to be mixed. So, no problem there.
As for the base stock of Motul, do not forget that MSDS is just for emergency personnel (fire and EMS) to know what substances are harmful. Considering Motul numbers, I would not be surprised if there are a bit of Esters there.
In the end, it is final results that matter. I did not see Ravenol UOA, but their KV100 indicates some "room for error." Usually, oils that are that thick are purposely made like that bcs. shearing.
Like I said, I personally trust Motul more. If you want a more robust Motul, go Motul SPort 5W40. If you are out of warranty, I would go that. It is still API SN, which means there is robust dispersant and detergent package for street use and oxidation is in check.
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      04-28-2021, 11:59 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
So all API oils must be able to be mixed. So, no problem there.
As for the base stock of Motul, do not forget that MSDS is just for emergency personnel (fire and EMS) to know what substances are harmful. Considering Motul numbers, I would not be surprised if there are a bit of Esters there.
In the end, it is final results that matter. I did not see Ravenol UOA, but their KV100 indicates some "room for error." Usually, oils that are that thick are purposely made like that bcs. shearing.
Like I said, I personally trust Motul more. If you want a more robust Motul, go Motul SPort 5W40. If you are out of warranty, I would go that. It is still API SN, which means there is robust dispersant and detergent package for street use and oxidation is in check.
Thanks for the input. I think I will give the Ravenol a try, since I am already running a similar oil in the 0W40 now and want to stick to LL-01 (given that the 2018 revision has stricter oxidation and wear requirements). On paper, it also seems to have good cold start and cold weather performance (based on CCS and MRV). I'll post a UOA either here or on BITOG. Hopefully, we get more UOAs of the Motul gen2 as well and I can decide going forward.

I previously ran the gen1 Motul X-cess 5W40 and that was the only time where I've had to top off with an additional quart between services. Granted, I was running the car hard that day and I had an indy do the oil change that time so maybe it wasn't topped off to begin with but not sure.
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Last edited by GrabacrOne; 04-29-2021 at 12:11 AM..
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      04-29-2021, 04:37 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabacrOne View Post
I've also been running Ravenol SSL 0W-40 (LL-01) and am planning on switching to Motul 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40 since it has been revised for LL-01 (2018) and appears to be pretty stout. In fact, the KV40 and KV100 values of the Motul are pretty similar to the Ravenol, but the Motul has a 0.1 cP higher HTHS as well.

I was looking at Ravenol VST 5W-40 (LL-01) too but its KV40 and KV100 values are notably higher (like X-cess gen1), given that HTHS is only 3.9 cP vs. 3.8 cP for Motul gen2. Not sure if it might be getting too thick for a lightly modded N55/S55. JamesGames edycol What do you think about the Ravenol VST 5W-40? Would you still prefer the Motul gen2?

TIA!
Ravenol is pricey, not sure if it's worth the extra money if you're not getting it on sale. I am currently running in my M4 Ravenol 0w40 USVO SSL that carried the LL01 (I bought it on sale in 2019). This is my first time running this oil so I can't really say until the UOA comes out - I do know the Ravenol specs look good though which is why I purchased bulk... (HTHS, NOACK, PAO based, carried 229.5 / a40 etc). I think same goes for Ravenol 5w40VST, looks like a good oil.

In terms of which one is better no clue. I have a stock of 5w40 Xcess gen 2 / Motul Sport 5w40 as well, so I will be running UOA on those eventually... but it's going to be a while since my car is on annual drain intervals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabacrOne View Post
Thanks for the input. I think I will give the Ravenol a try, since I am already running a similar oil in the 0W40 now and want to stick to LL-01 (given that the 2018 revision has stricter oxidation and wear requirements). On paper, it also seems to have good cold start and cold weather performance (based on CCS and MRV). I'll post a UOA either here or on BITOG. Hopefully, we get more UOAs of the Motul gen2 as well and I can decide going forward.

I previously ran the gen1 Motul X-cess 5W40 and that was the only time where I've had to top off with an additional quart between services. Granted, I was running the car hard that day and I had an indy do the oil change that time so maybe it wasn't topped off to begin with but not sure.
In terms of cold start I don't think any of those oils will make a difference for you - they all will pump similarly at cold temps.
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