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      12-08-2018, 12:47 PM   #111
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No, I couldn't watch YouTube videos at 8 am on a workday. At the time, it was a lot easier to open webpages and scroll down to the "winner"

After work I did look at YouTube. My god, that place is a mess. You get people who don't know what the hell they're talking about, people more concerned with being goofs than providing info about the cars, one dimensional "reviews" like drag races...and then when you get a full test some reviewers just recite platitudes for both cars and don't actually communicate their preferences. The best so far is Motor Trend, who prefers the Alfa - but that fact is already on the bpost thread so even that wasn't something new. But I'll keep watching. That Alfa looks like a really exciting car.

Well, what do you know...i spent all this time doing research. Maybe it actually would have been better if I pulled facts out of my ass, called it a day, and went to the pub.
Well there you go, you're the genius.
Clearly not as smart as you. Do you think that buying an Alfa will make me like you?
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      12-08-2018, 01:29 PM   #112
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Clearly not as smart as you. Do you think that buying an Alfa will make me like you?
Clearly not. I drive an F80 BTW, and no worries, I'm not here for your affection.
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      12-08-2018, 01:37 PM   #113
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Clearly not as smart as you. Do you think that buying an Alfa will make me like you?
Clearly not. I drive an F80 BTW, and no worries, I'm not here for your affection.
no, but I got it. You're here with the other guy who desperately and incoherently want to make this forum bow down to Alfas. You do you.

It's "like" as in similar, not affectionate, btw. But people pick the meaning that suits them best :inlove:
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      12-08-2018, 02:16 PM   #114
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Ok I'll stop now

Question for the Alfa owners. Some of you answered some of my questions on the livability of the brake by wire...so some of the reviewers also talk about the very close 1-6 gear ratios. No one mentions anything about throttle sensitivity.

So here's the thing - a Alfa QV would have to be something I sell to the wife as her car when her Porsche lease is up...if this thing is a jerky mess like the F82 Sport+ engine mode, then it's gonna be a non-starter. Could she stick this thing in E mode and be content? And then I'd just awaken the beast whenever I drove it?
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      12-08-2018, 03:31 PM   #115
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Ok I'll stop now

Question for the Alfa owners. Some of you answered some of my questions on the livability of the brake by wire...so some of the reviewers also talk about the very close 1-6 gear ratios. No one mentions anything about throttle sensitivity.

So here's the thing - a Alfa QV would have to be something I sell to the wife as her car when her Porsche lease is up...if this thing is a jerky mess like the F82 Sport+ engine mode, then it's gonna be a non-starter. Could she stick this thing in E mode and be content? And then I'd just awaken the beast whenever I drove it?
[quote=Darth One;24089147]

I didn't like sport+ mode in my F80s as I considered it to be too jerky and artificial. The throttle response in all the modes in the QV feel natural/linear to me to where I never really think about it. The most noticable distinctions between the different modes are transmission shift points and logic, suspension firmness, and aggressiveness of the traction control system.
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      12-08-2018, 11:52 PM   #116
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Ok I'll stop now

Question for the Alfa owners. Some of you answered some of my questions on the livability of the brake by wire...so some of the reviewers also talk about the very close 1-6 gear ratios. No one mentions anything about throttle sensitivity.

So here's the thing - a Alfa QV would have to be something I sell to the wife as her car when her Porsche lease is up...if this thing is a jerky mess like the F82 Sport+ engine mode, then it's gonna be a non-starter. Could she stick this thing in E mode and be content? And then I'd just awaken the beast whenever I drove it?
Night and day difference in throttle smoothness...and also between the ZF-8 and DCT. Shifts nearly as fast without the jerkiness. Race is like Sport +, and has an overboost setting. Dynamic is ideal daily but spirited driving setting, Natural is smoother yet (but pointless), and Advanced Efficiency is excellent for long trips as it initiates cylinder de-activation. Can get 30 MPG on which is good for really long trips on crowded highways...and, from a 505hp car, never the less.
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      12-09-2018, 11:22 AM   #117
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no, but I got it. You're here with the other guy who desperately and incoherently want to make this forum bow down to Alfas. You do you.

It's "like" as in similar, not affectionate, btw. But people pick the meaning that suits them best :inlove:
Nah its all good, don't let your head swell up. This thread is about an M4 owner going to a QV, so if you thought you were gonna read something different in this thread then I don't know what to tell you. It's not about bowing down, it's just about noticing and seeing another good car along with the M3. Nothing more nothing less. Stay humble
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      12-09-2018, 12:11 PM   #118
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Night and day difference in throttle smoothness...and also between the ZF-8 and DCT. Shifts nearly as fast without the jerkiness. Race is like Sport +, and has an overboost setting. Dynamic is ideal daily but spirited driving setting, Natural is smoother yet (but pointless), and Advanced Efficiency is excellent for long trips as it initiates cylinder de-activation. Can get 30 MPG on which is good for really long trips on crowded highways...and, from a 505hp car, never the less.
I obviously don’t have the seat time you do, but I didn’t find it jerky at all during normal driving on the test drives. I was expecting the brake thing to be really weird, but that isn’t even that bad, just different.

I’m in the same boat Darth One (I can never figure out how to tag people with spaces in their board name). If that white one at my dealer keeps dropping I’m going to try and talk the wife into it for her DD. A QV sitting next to a MT ZCP M3 would be alright!

Last edited by minn19; 12-09-2018 at 12:33 PM.
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      12-09-2018, 12:48 PM   #119
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I obviously don't have the seat time you do, but I didn't find it jerky at all during normal driving on the test drives. I was expecting the brake thing to be really weird, but that isn't even that bad, just different.

I'm in the same boat Darth One (I can never figure out how to tag people with spaces in their board name). If that white one at my dealer keeps dropping I'm going to try and talk the wife into it for her DD. A QV sitting next to a MT ZCP M3 would be alright!
At this point, I refuse to test drive this thing until I'm actually in the market for a car
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Night and day difference in throttle smoothness...and also between the ZF-8 and DCT. Shifts nearly as fast without the jerkiness. Race is like Sport +, and has an overboost setting. Dynamic is ideal daily but spirited driving setting, Natural is smoother yet (but pointless), and Advanced Efficiency is excellent for long trips as it initiates cylinder de-activation. Can get 30 MPG on which is good for really long trips on crowded highways...and, from a 505hp car, never the less.
All right. Well you are making this thing sound like the perfect car. Lol. This is exactly what I wish bmw did with the F8x - instead, efficient mode makes the car feel worthless, and sport+ is a total mess on the street
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      12-09-2018, 01:09 PM   #120
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At this point, I refuse to test drive this thing until I'm actually in the market for a car

All right. Well you are making this thing sound like the perfect car. Lol. This is exactly what I wish bmw did with the F8x - instead, efficient mode makes the car feel worthless, and sport+ is a total mess on the street
Agreed about efficient for the most part (but, I really donít mind it for my daily commute in stop and go), but I find Sport + fine on the street. Maybe because of the MT?
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      12-09-2018, 01:12 PM   #121
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At this point, I refuse to test drive this thing until I'm actually in the market for a car

All right. Well you are making this thing sound like the perfect car. Lol. This is exactly what I wish bmw did with the F8x - instead, efficient mode makes the car feel worthless, and sport+ is a total mess on the street
Agreed about efficient for the most part (but, I really don’t mind it for my daily commute in stop and go), but I find Sport + fine on the street. Maybe because of the MT?
It must be. People say the same thing about the power button in the e46 M3, but since mine is manual, I don't mind it...
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      12-09-2018, 05:56 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by mcc3456 View Post
Night and day difference in throttle smoothness...and also between the ZF-8 and DCT. Shifts nearly as fast without the jerkiness. Race is like Sport +, and has an overboost setting. Dynamic is ideal daily but spirited driving setting, Natural is smoother yet (but pointless), and Advanced Efficiency is excellent for long trips as it initiates cylinder de-activation. Can get 30 MPG on which is good for really long trips on crowded highways...and, from a 505hp car, never the less.
Race mode doesn't have over-boost (although the Alfa site claims it does). All of the power is avaliable in Normal, Dynamic and Race - this has been proved on dynos.
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      12-09-2018, 08:56 PM   #123
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Race mode doesn't have over-boost (although the Alfa site claims it does). All of the power is avaliable in Normal, Dynamic and Race - this has been proved on dynos.
You could be right, but in actuality, it pulls MUCH stronger in Race. Alfa sums up the difference modes in the chart below. Out of curiosity, would like to see your source stating there is no overboost. It was my understanding that the Quadrifoglio has proven very difficult to dyno. I’ve heard of people not being able to coax full power out of it on certain dynos, but full power on others. It is like the car knows it’s on a dyno and cuts power. With that said, shoot us a link to your claim of no overboost. Kind of have to defer to the manufacturer on this one unless proven otherwise.
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      12-09-2018, 09:18 PM   #124
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I obviously don’t have the seat time you do, but I didn’t find it jerky at all during normal driving on the test drives. I was expecting the brake thing to be really weird, but that isn’t even that bad, just different.

I’m in the same boat Darth One (I can never figure out how to tag people with spaces in their board name). If that white one at my dealer keeps dropping I’m going to try and talk the wife into it for her DD. A QV sitting next to a MT ZCP M3 would be alright!
In some ways, I thought of keeping my M3, as they are both amazing cars but accomplishing similar results in different ways. Neither necessarily better, just shockingly different. Main reason I decided not to keep the M3 was that it was causing me some annoying issues, and despite having a four car garage and multiple cars at the same time, I was tired of juggling mounting/dismounting snow tires several times a year, inspection stickers, oil changes, washing/waxing, which frankly became a real pain in the ass after a while. With that said, having both sitting side by side every morning was a nice first world problem to have for a couple of months. Living in New England is not always fun in that way though.

Last edited by mcc3456; 12-09-2018 at 09:43 PM.
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      12-09-2018, 09:31 PM   #125
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At this point, I refuse to test drive this thing until I'm actually in the market for a car

All right. Well you are making this thing sound like the perfect car. Lol. This is exactly what I wish bmw did with the F8x - instead, efficient mode makes the car feel worthless, and sport+ is a total mess on the street
Well, aside from a McLaren 720S or Ferrari 458 Italia, I don’t think the perfect car has ever been built and probably never will, but the Quadrifoglio certainly is a refreshing alternative to an M in a way that an AMG will never be. No disrespect to AMG (had 4 in a row before my M3), but just not feeling the new interior design language nor the 4.0L Biturbo engines -vs- the 6.2L and 5.5L Biturbo.

With that said, I do feel the Quadrifoglio’s modes are more practical in their actual execution. For instance, the Advanced Efficiency really works versus the M3’s wallowy Comfort Mode. The one thing the M3 really has going for it though is the ability to custom tune each setting. Though, not used daily, would still be nice to have a few custom modes preset, and readily available via M1/M2 buttons.

If you spend decent seat time in the Alfa test driving it as if you own it as opposed to just a 3-4 mile beat run, that’s where it will really show its true mettle. Hard to not sucked into pinning the throttle of a 505hp beast from the get go, but if you can avoid that impulse, and try it on windy back roads, traffic around town, etc., you’ll start to see why reviewers rave about the intuitive steering, balanced suspension, and rewarding overall charm. Liked the car from first ride, but really loved it after 7.5 hour ride from Boston through the heart of the Adirondacks up to the Canadian border. Just wow!

Last edited by mcc3456; 12-09-2018 at 09:40 PM.
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      12-10-2018, 02:46 AM   #126
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You could be right, but in actuality, it pulls MUCH stronger in Race. Alfa sums up the difference modes in the chart below. Out of curiosity, would like to see your source stating there is no overboost.
I can't find the thread, but it was on AlfaOwner a year or so back. Someone posted Dyno results showing no difference between N, D and Race. Maybe I dreamt it

I can't tell any difference between Dynamic and Race in terms of power, although Race is so much better at getting the power down. When traction becomes limited Dynamic just cuts the power where Race just seems to somehow generate huge traction where you'd expect the wheels to spin. I think it's the diff doing something clever. I rarely use Dynamic, it's a bit crap. Town and motorway is A mode, then when I get the chance it's Race and manual. The ZF is great in this mode, not quite up to a double clutch, but close. I have the same gearbox in my F31 but it feels a lot lazier, BMW needs to steal the Alfa version of the software as it's a great gearbox.
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      12-12-2018, 08:34 PM   #127
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Agreed about efficient for the most part (but, I really donít mind it for my daily commute in stop and go), but I find Sport + fine on the street. Maybe because of the MT?
I have DCT in my '18 ZCP - drive the car in Sport+ throttle all the time - it is not jumpy at all (although in the 2014 non-ZCP builds it could be a little jumpy at times). Software adjustments have definitely helped this issue (making it a non-issue at least in the later-build F8x's...)
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      12-12-2018, 08:57 PM   #128
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I have DCT in my '18 ZCP - drive the car in Sport+ throttle all the time - it is not jumpy at all (although in the 2014 non-ZCP builds it could be a little jumpy at times). Software adjustments have definitely helped this issue (making it a non-issue at least in the later-build F8x's...)
I remember my 15 DCT being pretty touchy. I havenít driven a later one, but just feeling Sport + in my MT car, I can see it being a lot smoother for the DCTs as well.
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      12-12-2018, 09:29 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I have DCT in my '18 ZCP - drive the car in Sport+ throttle all the time - it is not jumpy at all (although in the 2014 non-ZCP builds it could be a little jumpy at times). Software adjustments have definitely helped this issue (making it a non-issue at least in the later-build F8x's...)
It is smoother by a lot.

My 2015 M4 pre... 2017 firmware update, Sport+ was extremely touchy on low gear 1 - 3. It was very, very annoying to drive. You can say impossible if you don't like the car jerking all over the place.

But same with a few threads that have been said, it doesn't increase the HP/Torq like any other car with these types of settings. It just changes the power delivery and torque delivery so it's easier to drive from Efficient/Sport/Sport+. I would take an educated guess it is the same across all recent sports cars with these settings. Sport+ in my current 2018 M3 is easy to drive and you can very much feel how the car behaves even just going on the street. You let go of the gas, you feel it, the car won't cruise like it would in Efficient. It's an interesting feeling actually since you can "feel" the car way better.
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      12-13-2018, 09:52 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I have DCT in my '18 ZCP - drive the car in Sport+ throttle all the time - it is not jumpy at all (although in the 2014 non-ZCP builds it could be a little jumpy at times). Software adjustments have definitely helped this issue (making it a non-issue at least in the later-build F8x's...)
It is smoother by a lot.

My 2015 M4 pre... 2017 firmware update, Sport+ was extremely touchy on low gear 1 - 3. It was very, very annoying to drive. You can say impossible if you don't like the car jerking all over the place.

But same with a few threads that have been said, it doesn't increase the HP/Torq like any other car with these types of settings. It just changes the power delivery and torque delivery so it's easier to drive from Efficient/Sport/Sport+. I would take an educated guess it is the same across all recent sports cars with these settings. Sport+ in my current 2018 M3 is easy to drive and you can very much feel how the car behaves even just going on the street. You let go of the gas, you feel it, the car won't cruise like it would in Efficient. It's an interesting feeling actually since you can "feel" the car way better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I have DCT in my '18 ZCP - drive the car in Sport+ throttle all the time - it is not jumpy at all (although in the 2014 non-ZCP builds it could be a little jumpy at times). Software adjustments have definitely helped this issue (making it a non-issue at least in the later-build F8x's...)
It is smoother by a lot.

My 2015 M4 pre... 2017 firmware update, Sport+ was extremely touchy on low gear 1 - 3. It was very, very annoying to drive. You can say impossible if you don't like the car jerking all over the place.

But same with a few threads that have been said, it doesn't increase the HP/Torq like any other car with these types of settings. It just changes the power delivery and torque delivery so it's easier to drive from Efficient/Sport/Sport+. I would take an educated guess it is the same across all recent sports cars with these settings. Sport+ in my current 2018 M3 is easy to drive and you can very much feel how the car behaves even just going on the street. You let go of the gas, you feel it, the car won't cruise like it would in Efficient. It's an interesting feeling actually since you can "feel" the car way better.
This pretty much sums up my experience when I upgraded my 2015 (2014 build) to the 2016 software update which definitely helped - and an even further improvement going to the 2018 ZCP...
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