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      05-22-2013, 03:16 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
not really, but say what you want. engines can achieve the same goal in different ways. only thing that matters is moving the axle.
The amount of torque made after 5,252 is absolutely relevant. Horsepower is a function of torque made at a specified RPM. The higher the torque and the greater the RPM, the more power.

My car for example makes only 350 RWTQ at 5,252 RPM, but continues to make that amount of torque all the way to 8,600 RPM. That equates to nearly 600 RWHP.

Sure you can make 600 RWHP at 5,000 RPM on a different motor/platform, however in that scenario torque will have to be sooo high that much of it will be lost spinning tires and chassis deflection.
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      05-22-2013, 03:19 PM   #68
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why it still has that fugly ass exhaust. Can BMW make it look nice so you don't see the whole exhaust hanging behind. The current m3 has it and it makes the car look so ugly from the rear.
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      05-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #69
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Heres my question. It looks like this car has a true BBK. (4 Piston rear caliper rather than floating caliper)

So why are they not offering the rear 4 piston caliper on the M6 Ceramic Kit?
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      05-22-2013, 03:40 PM   #70
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I remember a member of this forum wrote a comment about the possibility of a high rpm(8000 or so) turbo 6 in the upcoming M3 a year or so ago and he/she got flamed for the comment. I guess that person was on to something.
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      05-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster
btw, here's one owner's review of his MP4-12c; "- Throttle response leaves a little to be desired. - TURBO LAG! Below 3000rpm the small engine does show through. You really have to be above 3000rpm all the time otherwise it feels like I am driving my smart car. There really is virtually no get up and go at all compared to my similar cars."
I think that's where we'll see the rumored electric spool assist shine.... :-)
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      05-22-2013, 03:48 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
The amount of torque made after 5,252 is absolutely relevant. Horsepower is a function of torque made at a specified RPM. The higher the torque and the greater the RPM, the more power.

My car for example makes only 350 RWTQ at 5,252 RPM, but continues to make that amount of torque all the way to 8,600 RPM. That equates to nearly 600 RWHP.

Sure you can make 600 RWHP at 5,000 RPM on a different motor/platform, however in that scenario torque will have to be sooo high that much of it will be lost spinning tires and chassis deflection.
You're right - i was not trying to say that torque past the equation constant of 5252 is irrelevant. it is alway better to have more torque longer because that will translate to more power (independent of revs, which can also increase it). I did state it that way, but that's not what i meant. I was more commenting on the significance of a % drop off peak torque at redline (i don't think it's that significant if the engine is tailored to make up for it).
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      05-22-2013, 04:16 PM   #73
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I created a new graph assuming HP will be 450 (not 415) and I also put in a 50 lb-ft overboost feature similar to the E90/E92 335is for comparison.

As you can see this new power plant will be very potent, but definitely not a top end screamer as its predecessor as horsepower plateaus around 5,500 rpm. That sprint to redline wont yield any more power.

Almost seems as if BMW artificially created a high redline to appeal to the normally aspirated gearheads/magazines.

Regards,
HMR.
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Last edited by HouseMusicRules; 05-22-2013 at 04:56 PM.
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      05-22-2013, 04:22 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Heres my question. It looks like this car has a true BBK. (4 Piston rear caliper rather than floating caliper)

So why are they not offering the rear 4 piston caliper on the M6 Ceramic Kit?
M6 stopping power is enough. Who tracks an M6?
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      05-22-2013, 04:37 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
M6 stopping power is enough. Who tracks an M6?
Not many, but you said the same thing about the M3

As goes the redline, can't believe how much surprise there is about this. Clearly it was always going to be higher than the M5 so c.7,800 was entirely expected. And I'll continue to expect 440-460PS, 420PS sounds too low just just like the previous redline "insider rumors". Most important thing is the weight loss though, it'll get the M3 closer to what it was.
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      05-22-2013, 05:16 PM   #76
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all m engines follow one another. this will be just a S63 with 2 cyl less, 100hp less and more or less similar redline give or take 500rpm. why is this news?
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      05-22-2013, 05:17 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseMusicRules View Post
I created a new graph assuming HP will be 450 (not 415) and I also put in a 50 lb-ft overboost feature similar to the E90/E92 335is for comparison.

As you can see this new power plant will be very potent, but definitely not a top end screamer as its predecessor as horsepower plateaus around 5,500 rpm. That sprint to redline wont yield any more power.

Almost seems as if BMW artificially created a high redline to appeal to the normally aspirated gearheads/magazines.

Regards,
HMR.
How do you figure peak torque at 1500rpm?
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      05-22-2013, 05:27 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseMusicRules View Post
I created a new graph assuming HP will be 450 (not 415) and I also put in a 50 lb-ft overboost feature similar to the E90/E92 335is for comparison.

As you can see this new power plant will be very potent, but definitely not a top end screamer as its predecessor as horsepower plateaus around 5,500 rpm. That sprint to redline wont yield any more power.

Almost seems as if BMW artificially created a high redline to appeal to the normally aspirated gearheads/magazines.

Regards,
HMR.
Even if power does not increase (i.e plateaus) past 5500RPM, it does yield a lot of useable power all the way up in the rev range; and that will translate in real world performance.
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      05-22-2013, 05:37 PM   #79
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Nice double bubble roof.
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      05-22-2013, 05:53 PM   #80
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I'm starting to get intrigued...and that's right where they want me. NEWMAN!
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      05-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #81
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what exactly is the point of a turbo motor revving to 8K? This thing better have good gearing...
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      05-22-2013, 06:22 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
You're right - i was not trying to say that torque past the equation constant of 5252 is irrelevant. it is alway better to have more torque longer because that will translate to more power (independent of revs, which can also increase it). I did state it that way, but that's not what i meant. I was more commenting on the significance of a % drop off peak torque at redline (i don't think it's that significant if the engine is tailored to make up for it).
Ok sorry i misunderstood then.

A large torque drop off at redline is what happens to virtually every car out there. This includes powerful motors in very fast cars like what is in the AMGs or Chevy's LS-variant motors. The exception is stuff like what is seen in the exotic N/A motors in Ferrari's, Lambos, and even in a couple non-exotics like the Acura NSX, Honda S2000 and the previous and current gen M3's. Just different ways of making power - and I think that's what you are referring to.
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      05-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3less View Post
How do you figure peak torque at 1500rpm?
Based on the power curves of the N54 / N55 motors. BMW has been very consistent with how they use turbos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Even if power does not increase (i.e plateaus) past 5500RPM, it does yield a lot of useable power all the way up in the rev range; and that will translate in real world performance.
Didn't I mention it would be a very potent motor?
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      05-22-2013, 07:30 PM   #84
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THere are a lot of people in this thread who are talking nonsense about engines and power curves. It is very entertaining.
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      05-22-2013, 08:03 PM   #85
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The E92 is a beautiful car, I really hope this next generation lives up to it. Hard to tell from the current pictures but I'm not really a huge fan of the new headlight design and the side-view mirrors look horrible (though I assume they are not the real production mirrors). I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the real thing looks like.
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      05-22-2013, 08:11 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Heres my question. It looks like this car has a true BBK. (4 Piston rear caliper rather than floating caliper)

So why are they not offering the rear 4 piston caliper on the M6 Ceramic Kit?
BMW has a particular way of deciding which of their cars will have a proper set of fixed-piston calipers or not -like the 135i and not the M3, or the half-ass M5 and M6 even with ceramic rotors.
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      05-22-2013, 08:14 PM   #87
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Other than the C63... how can anyone compete with this? ...based on performance + appearance.
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      05-22-2013, 08:14 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BV335 View Post
Lets hope we see 450/400. Everytime I see an update here it helps put off my desire to trade in now and wait for the M4. Time will tell! Thanks for the update!
Traditionally the next M3 (now the M4) will have more power than its current generation 7-Series (except 12-cylinder model).

Which puts its power around 450hp (current 7-Series is 445hp).
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