Chris Harris Drives: Merc-AMG GT R vs 911 GT3 RS vs BMW M4 GTS

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by neilum

I know the M3/4 is nothing compared to the Gti, but we can dream.

I've owned plenty of new BMW's. You get wiser with age and change priorities.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by GioM3

Even Toyota has LFA....

Heavy Toyota

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by GioM3

I mean WHY???
Why did BMW made M4 GTS? it looks like every single competitor destroys it, I mean WHY, why can't BMW make one flagship Supercar to silence the critics and especially number one competitor merc.
Oh Why??????

I've been asking myself that question for decades. Even Audi realized the benefits of doing so.......Audi R8

[GioM3]

Originally Posted by norMcal

I've been asking myself that question for decades. Even Audi realized the benefits of doing so.......Audi R8

Yes, and look at how R8 turned out, great everyday driver, fast supercar and winning everything in GT Racing,

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by GioM3

Yes, and look at how R8 turned out, great everyday driver, fast supercar and winning everything in GT Racing,

And clearly elevated them in status to compete with BMW and Merc. I remember a few decades back it was a 2 horse race among German car makers......at least as far as sedans where concerned.

[RACEM4TE]

Originally Posted by GioM3

Yes, and look at how R8 turned out, great everyday driver, fast supercar and winning everything in GT Racing,

Allegedly BMW is turning the current 6 series into an 8 series and making the next gen 6 series a front engined GT car to compete with the 911 and of course the AMG GTS.

[Liquid2.0T]

I can hear the M4 GTS value plummeting...

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by redrumm3

As the owner of a GTS who tracks the car, I can tell you that the car is more than capable of crushing the 4S. I've had no problem disposing GT3's and RS's on the track even older Cup cars. As for the Merc, I can't say. None are at the track.

BMW has built a car that can hold its own against the competition in competent hands and at a price point that's quite reasonable compared to the real price you have to pay for the competition.

I'm not dissing on Harris, I hold him in high regard, but I think the press in general totally misses the point on the GTS. It requires some setup and seat time to get it right.

Lol, two fallacies here: (1) that DEs are anything remotely close to racing; and (2) that drivers at DEs, even the vast majority in the instructor groups, have car control skills close to or comparable with those that race[d] or someone like Chris Harris or my good friend Randy Pobst. I had 3 996 GT3 and 2 997 GT3 Cup Cars and 2 "older" Ferrari Challenge cars. You won't be in the same point of reference or same conversation with one of those driven by someone with any skills and I doubt very seriously you could get around a technical road course quicker than a newer GT3, much less and RS, driven by someone with any skill. Yup, your road car will hang with a cup car . . . Nice one.

[damnitBobby]

The GT3 is the car to have. AMG seems like they made a solid contender, but the GT3 is just a NA screamer. If I'm spending that much I want something that excites me every time I drive it.

M4 GTS overpriced and under delivering as usual. On top of all of that it doesn't even look good. I feel sorry for the people that spent that much money on such a car.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

Lol, two fallacies here: (1) that DEs are anything remotely close to racing; and (2) that drivers at DEs, even the vast majority in the instructor groups, have car control skills close to or comparable with those that race[d] or someone like Chris Harris or my good friend Randy Pobst. I had 3 996 GT3 and 2 997 GT3 Cup Cars and 2 "older" Ferrari Challenge cars. You won't be in the same point of reference or same conversation with one of those driven by someone with any skills and I doubt very seriously you could get around a technical road course quicker than a newer GT3, much less and RS, driven by someone with any skill. Yup, your road car will hang with a cup car . . . Nice one.

Very true. There are sooo many drivers in fast cars at DE, who would be better served in lesser cars until they get their skill level up.

Not to knock the M4 GTS completely here. I'm sure it is a capable car, but I would buy a standard GT3 over it any day of the week.

[Germanauto]

I don't get it, if he loves the regular ///M3/4 then why does he have an issue with the more hardcore version?

[marcva]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Very true. There are sooo many drivers in fast cars at DE, who would be better served in lesser cars until they get their skill level up.

I learned a ton in my 325, and didn't upgrade (all the way to an e36m) until I signed off on the skidpad at the local BMW chapter. Working to make a slower car fast was one of the best things I did to learn a lot. Other than straight line speed, it wasn't that much slower, if at all.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Draper

You're splitting hairs.

Most GTS owners paid sticker, and the RS will typically be $100k north of the GTS.

You are missing the point, the point is MSRP they are not that much different, so they are in the same price point.

Just because GT3 RS is valuable doesn't mean they can't be compared performance wise.

And everyone I know paid sticker for GT3 RS.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

Heavy Toyota

Toyota! Respect. They are the world's most valuable automotive company after all.

[ReeferCheefer]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

AMG GTR: $195,000+ If you can get one
911 GT3 RS: $250,000+ for a 2016 model
BMW M4 GTS: around $130,000 at today's prices.

Not in the same ball park at all.
The GTS is actually a good value for the money.

Got the GTS and a $70,000 SUV for the winter.
Having a blast!

can me and your money be friends?

[Xtabi]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I don't get it, if he loves the regular ///M3/4 then why does he have an issue with the more hardcore version?

Your statement precisely sums up why BMW builds these cars and why people buy them.

A lot of people perceive 'more hardcore' and higher priced equates to better. Some think it looks great next to these other cars. Nothing wrong with that. Some think it performs great. Nothing wrong with that either.

I'm building a new gaming PC. I can buy the 3733MHz DDR4 sticks or go with the 3000MHz sticks. $240 vs. $165. The performance difference is there. I'll never be able to realize it though. No higher performance in my games. There are other limiting factors that can hold it back. Same as the gts cars. People get hung up on how much 'more hardcore' it is. Just silly IMO.

I can buy the platinum rated 1000 watt power supply or the 750. My build specs necessitate the 750.

CH started it was harder to drive but no more rewarding.

It is not purpose built sports car. It is an axed up coupe morphed into a mangled mess with the constraints allowed by the root/base design.

If I bought the above RAM and slapped it into my current motherboard the result would be
equivalent to the gts. I can put carbon fiber bits and even led lights on it.

I am building this new PC from the ground up. Thus working with no constraints as the gts was. I can make it look and perform exactly as I want unlike the gts. I can have it push out 100fps on any game if I choose.

At the end of the day it is about profit for BMW. Sadly though they are falling behind in the halo car category and looking silly (physically (imp) and metaphorically (input from many enthusiasts)).

At the end of the year (tm new phrase) it does not really matter because something new and 'more hardcore' will be released. Hopefully it will have the looks and ability to match. Mainly because by then I'll be considering a second car.

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by ReeferCheefer

can me and your money be friends?

Lol. Good one.
You know what? I worked hard for it and I since I turned 60 last year I thought it would be a nice reward for the long hours...
Sure was a nice birthday present and I realize how lucky I am. Life is short and I do not take anything for granted.
My main point was that for $50,000 less that the GT3 RS I was able to buy both an amazing every day track car (having a blast with it) and a high end SUV.
The GTS should have been matched against the AMG black series and the 911S.
Price point does matter in any comparison.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I don't get it, if he loves the regular ///M3/4 then why does he have an issue with the more hardcore version?

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Toyota! Respect. They are the world's most valuable automotive company after all.

Yes respect I know and I do.
I've owned quite a few myself both Lex and Toy.

My best buddy of like maybe 20++ years is a top exec over in Torrance and has had access and ownership of any type of exotic toylex he wants
custom ordered direct from Japan w any available options loaded etc etc. he even tracks it's progress from build thru shipping pan Pacific to port here and so on to delivery day at work by inter staff. He is also a LONGTIME auto enthusiast and owner of such delicacies as a super legit Tech Art Turbo and others...
Having said
that we always talk about this and that related to our own car ownerships as well as sometimes attending local SoCal events and rallies
He TOLD me himself when I asked that he got rid of the car because it was way too heavy.

That's all I know about that. But I'll take a Toyota truck any day for sure )

Oh and that one other Toyota of mention )

[Draper]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

You are missing the point, the point is MSRP they are not that much different, so they are in the same price point.

Just because GT3 RS is valuable doesn't mean they can't be compared performance wise.

And everyone I know paid sticker for GT3 RS.

Please direct me to where I can purchase an RS for $130k. I'll buy 2.

[Dave07997S]

The issue with the M4GTS is that its not that much better than a M4ZCP car especially at twice the price. I never understood this car.

The winner hear is clearly the PCar. The Merc is hideous, it look so cartoonish right out of DC Comics.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

The way Chris Harris acts in that video is over the top
It is reality TV and all about ratings.
The formula always works: let's choose a rare or cult car and bash it

If the car had been set properly for the track unlike in the video (all on street setting, no aero) Harris could not have done his number.

OR

The GTS kinda sucks.

Which is usually the case when a car is only great if, if, if, if