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      05-16-2014, 11:21 AM   #67
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Let's not forget he owned an E92, so I don't think he "left things in there" to placate E92 fans. I think when he says the E92 has special character/strengths, he probably actually believes it.

He's a good reviewer and the thing one has to realize about a good reviewer is that honesty cuts both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Even though this was a very positive review, he still left in some things for the E9x brigade to justify their dislike for the F8x

The main things he pointed out was (to me):

-Throttle response and how the car can be controlled by the throtle more than the previous gen (due to combination of torque and throttle response)

-Steering is good but no revelation, but as he said, neither where the E46 or E9x

-Engine. He doesn't love the noise compared with the E9x and it's kind of a let down for the cars noise that he mentions Radio 4 and ZZ Top... Strangely enough BMW seems to have managed a better soundtrack in the M235i...

-Engine. He'd buy the car because of the engine, not in spite of it

-Engine. It is worth going to 7500rpm in it

Looking forward to the video
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      05-16-2014, 11:28 AM   #68
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I still read all of this discussion and chuckle at everyone's attempts to transfer their good and bad opinions of the car onto whatever the next reviewer says. I'm sure I do it too but damn we all need to just drive it and stop trying to apply objective weight to our parsing of subjective words used to describe the drive. Sounds like a bunch of 1L's in here arguing over the steering, and I'm not even a lawyer.
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      05-16-2014, 11:35 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keto View Post
I still read all of this discussion and chuckle at everyone's attempts to transfer their good and bad opinions of the car onto whatever the next reviewer says. I'm sure I do it too but damn we all need to just drive it and stop trying to apply objective weight to our parsing of subjective words used to describe the drive. Sounds like a bunch of 1L's in here arguing over the steering, and I'm not even a lawyer.
Well stated!
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      05-16-2014, 11:36 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
BUT, it is still not World's first 100% perfect car, such a surprise!
Yes, a shame about that. I didn't miss your sarcasm, but there is also a truth in your remark, that until there is 100% perfect all will cars involve tradeoffs. And the tradeoffs with the M3/4 have changed. Chris Harris's notes endorse many of the fundamental changes matching his interests. And they match my interest in a very high performance daily driver too (well, not the YMB part, but that's a different thread). Of course there are other interests...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
It isn't dislike. It just is a different car now, nothing wrong with that . Making the car more livable as a daily driver, better emissions, better mpg...is not what I was looking for. This car is perfect for a lot of people. But this quote really brings it home for me: "Is the motor special enough? For a quick track blast and a few hours on the road, to impress a few hacks? Probably not, especially in light of the deranged V8 model's zap and DTM blare beyond 7,500rpm. But for everyday use, the torque, the sheer speed and the range make the new gizzards - for me - far more appealing." I guess you can call me one of the hacks, because I attend a lot of tracks through out the year. I gladly give up some daily driver ease of driving, for a more engaging and rewarding drive on the track. To be honest the new F8x are going to be really good cars, just with a slightly different audience.
I think this was a good expression of the more track-minded interest. They are different from max performance daily driver interests. The street and track are just very different, and there are tradeoffs in optimizing a design for each. "Of course" some interests will be poorly served if the balance swings in a different direction. And I have great sympathy for customers who are losing an optimal product.

But I also track my cars, and am keen to try the F80 at Spa and the Ring before the end of the season. And compared to prior M3s, from a track perspective, I'm excited by the improved brakes(!) and what sounds like an improved chassis. There are track drivers who would argue brakes and chassis are more important than the engine and horsepower. You've got to be able to put the power down for it to be useful. I don't mean to suggest the E90 couldn't put the power down, but I will argue the F80 has multiple changes for the better from a track-day perspective. The aesthetic issues of sound and the joy of rushing to redline are not part of the improvements. But I'm excited to track this car (as well as enjoy the benefits of a better daily driver). Cheers
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      05-16-2014, 11:36 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
Well, this was the review many were waiting for and if this doesn't persuade people to not write this car off*, then nothing will.

I especially liked this line:




Leave it in comfort. The other two settings simply add weight, and I disliked them both. The 3 Series electric steering rack has been comprehensively re-engineered for this car, at vast expense. Does it feel like a conventional hydraulic rack? Nope. Is it exceedingly accurate? Yes. And the world really does have a short memory if it cites the last two M3s as being steering paragons. The E46 was light but accurate, the E92 lacked initial response off-centre. Neither were great.
This is not steering to savour, but it gives the driver instant confidence, and that is a brilliant trick when allied to all that front axle grip. For a big car, you can place the M3 with uncanny accuracy.



....as it mirrored the points I was trying to make in these two posts:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...g#post15928716

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...w#post15958808


* ....and if you missed the sarcasm, saying "not write this off" was extremely tongue in cheek. This is a fantastic review. Clearly prefers this car over E90 AND the C63 507 (which he drives). Y'all shouldn't be 'dreading' this car or apprehensive, but you should be excited

go on.

try being excited.

its ok.

it will be our little secret.....

He put that in specifically because he's well aware of the E46 and E9x guys who consider their cars flawless compared to the POS F8x cars lol.
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      05-16-2014, 11:39 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Revell View Post
He put that in specifically because he's well aware of the E46 and E9x guys who consider their cars flawless compared to the POS F8x cars lol.
Yup.

....of course, still won't satisfy some folks.....but then nothing will.
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      05-16-2014, 11:39 AM   #73
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Nice review, torque is king, especially for a daily.
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      05-16-2014, 11:41 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP
Here is the thing; I feel the standard e90 gen hydraulic steering while not the most precise provided unequal levels of enjoyment to any other car I've driven. No electric rack I've ever driven could replicate this enjoyment.
E9X M3 hydraulic steering was very good overall (and precise), although it certainly wasn't game changing or communicative in the way that you'd find in a 2000 pound unassisted-steering Lotus. Chris Harris is definitely right though when he criticizes its poor feedback off center (the only place I have any issue with the E9X steering).

From his notes, I personally feel reassured about the F8X M3/M4's steering. No, I didn't read anything that led me to believe that this steering is better than the hydraulic steering we had previously, but I also never expected it to be. My fear is that it would feel like the steering I've experienced in a few test drives of the 435i, and Chris Harris has given me some confidence that this is not the case: The steering will be satisfactory, and given that this is the first M3 foray into electrically assisted steering, I can rest easy knowing it isn't a detractor from the overall experience of the car.
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      05-16-2014, 11:43 AM   #75
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I find it funny we're all patiently waiting for his video review. He's one of many, but the style and substance of his reviews make them feel more substantial and effective. I personally think he's the best in the business (Top Gear full of clowns) and I cant wait to finally watch it.

Of the the reviews Ive read so far, his notes are the first think making me question the 6-MT choice. Gotta stay the course....
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      05-16-2014, 11:44 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Honestly if I never bought the F10 M5, I'd be doing Euro Delivery in June on a new F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, Fully Loaded with CCB's. The M5 may be a 4,400lbs whale of a fat bastard, but I still love it for now. But what I really want is a straightpiped Lambo Superleggera next. So that's what I'm working on now.
Another M5/6 guy here.....

I love the M4. I just wanted the luxo cruiser more as my first toy, so I bought the M6.

There is no doubt that the M4 will be in my garage in the not so distant future.

Both cars are great, plus, we are family.

Can't we all just get along?
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      05-16-2014, 11:46 AM   #77
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can't wait for the video!
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      05-16-2014, 11:49 AM   #78
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How many of you just read that piece with Chris Harris' English accent and voice going off in your head lol. Great review!!
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      05-16-2014, 11:50 AM   #79
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fir the past two wednesdays ive been going to the drive network only to see spinelli playing a stupid what would you buy with $116k game on afterdrive.

get it out already. sutcliffe has.
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      05-16-2014, 11:56 AM   #80
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He says he'd get it in blue...

Great review. Makes me want the car even more!
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      05-16-2014, 11:57 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Honestly if I never bought the F10 M5, I'd be doing Euro Delivery in June on a new F80 M3, Yas Marina Blue, Fully Loaded with CCB's. The M5 may be a 4,400lbs whale of a fat bastard, but I still love it for now. But what I really want is a straightpiped Lambo Superleggera next. So that's what I'm working on now.
You will not regret the Superleggera. Although the Straight pipe will make it a animal on the streets. literally. 08 before the LP models are LOUDER. To all the haters of the E-gear; it isn't really bad. it suits the character of the car more because the shifts give it a whip lash feel. I owned a 08 Gallardo with e-gear and it was such a joy.

(Sandy took her away) 16,780 miles.

Once you drive a Ferrari or Lambo you forget all the technical stuff.
you just enjoy the music behind the car.

Now since i own an 13' M3 LRP I am making the same decision.

Superleggera or Scuderia????

I personally love 08-13 models (Lambo)
I don't like 360 CS but i love the F430 Sud.
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      05-16-2014, 12:01 PM   #82
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Summer or Winter Solstice? lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Once again I can see that CH values things differently than me. Still looking forward to the full review, they are always entertaining. Unfortunately most of what I see as potential let downs are there in his notes, he just don't care about them, numb steering and all. He mostly praises the engines easy access to power ( low end TQ ) and how it makes it a good DD, if I was looking for that I'd save a lot of money and drive a 335i or a diesel car. An M3 should have an engine that is what he say it hasn't, very special. Let's see if he buys one.
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      05-16-2014, 12:01 PM   #83
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I thoroughly enjoyed Chrisí preliminary review and canít wait to see the rest of it. It wasnít a whitewash, nor does he snootily henpeck at things for the sake of trying to make himself appear discerning. Instead, he hits on the features and drawbacks in an honest, balanced and helpful way. He gets that these cars are intended to be both competent track cars as well as daily drivers. There are other cars that can perform either purpose better.

So there are trade-offs associated with having a car that works well on a race track as well as transporting you from point A to B. Likewise, adopting new technology has its trade-offs too. You have an engine that is more efficient, powerful and has more torque versus an engine that can rev higher and sounds better. You have steering that is more precise and controllable versus steering that returns a bit more feel. In final result the new ///M goes better and steers better. M Mission accomplished.

A car company that adopts new technology and minimizes its drawbacks is one thatís going to be around for a while. A car company that caters to the nostalgia crowd might as well be selling used cars. Adapt and improvise or become irrelevant I say.

I will conclude by throwing in a few snippets from other reviews that I like that say an awful lot about the new ///Mís and are in keeping with why Chris liked them, for your enjoyment:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/12/2..._river_article

Quote:
Launched out of the seat by a huge, unexpected dip in the road, yet still held largely in place by the smooth webbing of my safety belt, I clench my teeth waiting to come back to earth. A tenth of a second later, the M4 Coupe touches down and my body is slammed into the leather seat cushion. All of the air is forced out of my lungs upon landing, but the BMW's chassis, suspension and steering appear unfazed. Pleasantly surprised, I mash the accelerator to the floor in giddy pursuit of the car in front of me Ė an absolutely identical 2015 BMW M4 coupe.
http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-revi...512-384e3.html

Quote:
On the road to the challenging Portimao circuit in Portugal where it was launched last week, it took less than 15 minutes behind the wheel to come to that conclusion. It cemented itself on a ragged and winding piece of tarmac - just as good as any in Australia in terms of corners and just as bad in terms of being as pockmarked as a teenager - where, right on the exit of a tight bend, the car hit a sharp-edged bump while it was fully loaded and with the engine right in the meat of its power band.

Itís the kind of situation that would have massively upset its predecessor, sending the stability control into overdrive, causing heart palpitations for whoever was behind the wheel and making the daisies on the side of the road duck for cover.

In the same scenario, the E92 M3 coupe would have bucked sideways and then kangaroo-hopped out of the corner as you modulate the throttle to bring the high-revving V8 back under control.

Not this time; the M4, even with the adaptive suspension in its stiffest setting and the engine tuned to its sharpest throttle map, hopped over it, composed itself quickly and then, without even needing any correction through the steering wheel or lifting off the gas pedal, simply bolted towards the next corner as if nothing ever happened.
This is the car for me.
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      05-16-2014, 12:03 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwen View Post
I'm at a loss as to what the engine would need to do to be more special other than sound different?
Seems to me what people (who haven't driven the car) are taking exception with is

1.) Sound
2.) "Rush to the finish" at redline
3.) Throttle response

What CH seems to be saying is

1.) Maybe a little, but it grows on you given it's other superb qualities
2.) Maybe you give a LITTLE here, but not much - it's worth winding out it just doesn't have the e9x's 7000+ win ... BUT that comes with loads of pre-7000 win the e9x doesn't have
3.) None that he could tell

For people complaining about the DD aspect of his review- uh, that's what this car is: a DD that can be track ready. IF you don't want a DD then why the HELL are you buying an M3/4?? (or a 911 or a cayman?)
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      05-16-2014, 12:03 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damasconian View Post
I find it funny we're all patiently waiting for his video review. He's one of many, but the style and substance of his reviews make them feel more substantial and effective. I personally think he's the best in the business (Top Gear full of clowns) and I cant wait to finally watch it.
I couldn't agree more.
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      05-16-2014, 12:11 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Great balanced review..finally (also lets not forget he owned the old one)! No question the M3/4 is quick and a torquier daily solution, but I've always loved the bi-polar personality of the E9x and how it was really two different cars. Even the most anti-E9x reviews out there concede that above 7k RPM the experience of the E9x is so raw and race-like and gratifying....really is unmatched in the category.
Yeah, I think the review basically pointed out:

e90 - more gratifying race-car like experience at the top of the tach
f8x - better daily driver experience in many ways

Makes alot of sense. Each M3 has become more daily driver oriented. The e90 was always the fat pig daily driver with a comfortable suspension compared to the e46, back in 07/08.
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      05-16-2014, 12:17 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
I thoroughly enjoyed Chrisí preliminary review and canít wait to see the rest of it. It wasnít a whitewash, nor does he snootily henpeck at things for the sake of trying to make himself appear discerning. Instead, he hits on the features and drawbacks in an honest, balanced and helpful way. He gets that these cars are intended to be both competent track cars as well as daily drivers. There are other cars that can perform either purpose better.

So there are trade-offs associated with having a car that works well on a race track as well as transporting you from point A to B. Likewise, adopting new technology has its trade-offs too. You have an engine that is more efficient, powerful and has more torque versus an engine that can rev higher and sounds better. You have steering that is more precise and controllable versus steering that returns a bit more feel. In final result the new ///M goes better and steers better. M Mission accomplished.

A car company that adopts new technology and minimizes its drawbacks is one thatís going to be around for a while. A car company that caters to the nostalgia crowd might as well be selling used cars. Adapt and improvise or become irrelevant I say.

I will conclude by throwing in a few snippets from other reviews that I like that say an awful lot about the new ///Mís and are in keeping with why Chris liked them, for your enjoyment:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/12/2..._river_article



http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-revi...512-384e3.html



This is the car for me.
Great post.
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      05-16-2014, 12:19 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ake
He says he'd get it in blue...

Great review. Makes me want the car even more!
I know glad I got Yas and the CCB
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