Angeles Crest Hwy spirit run

[BzsBimmer]

This one is epic as well

[WESTCOASTTRADING]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

This one is epic as well

Video is deleted bruh

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

This one is epic as well

I beat you to it in post 41

[Beemerm3]

Wow watching some of those wrecks are scary . Especially the guy falling off the cliff. I usually don’t watch wreck videos like that on YouTube n it changed my perception.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Beemerm3

Wow watching some of those wrecks are scary . Especially the guy falling off the cliff. I usually don’t watch wreck videos like that on YouTube n it changed my perception.

I think it's necessary viewing. Canyons aren't a place to explore your limit, it's a place to KNOW your limit and enjoy a nice drive without killing yourself and others.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by jmg

I think it's necessary viewing. Canyons aren't a place to explore your limit, it's a place to KNOW your limit and enjoy a nice drive without killing yourself and others.

Totally agree on that one!!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jmg

I think it's necessary viewing. Canyons aren't a place to explore your limit, it's a place to KNOW your limit and enjoy a nice drive without killing yourself and others.

Very well said.

[SD ///M4]

This was posted this morning in the Angeles Crest Highway Facebook group which I linked to in a previous post above and offers a perspective from someone who's driven on ACH for 30 years:

"One of the questions I have asked myself over the last 30 years, is why the Crest Highway has a record of so many vehicles over the side. There are a lot of vehicles over the side on the ACH. Every year that road claims the lives of people who do not know the route, and also one or two who do.

I love the Crest Road. I love to drive it. I love to take a folding chair and an iPad, get outside of cell phone range, and sit and read and think.

If you spend enough time on the Crest at some point you will find yourself directing traffic around a wreck, or moving the remains of a motorcycle off to the side while others make arrangements for an ambulance. This is surprisingly common.

Aside from the fact that the Crest Highway is a winding mountain road, and all such roads are dangerous is there a reason that the ACH is so lethal? Certainly proximity of a winding rural road just minutes from the serious urban density of LA does not help. Flat-landers are always at risk in the hills. But is there a reason why this road, this specific road, is so dangerous?

If there is simple answer to that question, it may be this. Angeles Crest Highway, has a lot of curves that either from one side or the other are decreasing radius turns.

A car enters a decreasing radius turn at a speed that may seem fine, yet as the turn progresses, the car needs more and more grip to stay inside the double yellow. If the driver enters the turn near the traction limit of their tires, they are in a cruel double bind. If that driver continues into the turn at the same speed as the radius gets smaller, they will start to slide across the double yellow. And if they put on the brakes they will increase the traction load on the tires, which are already at the limit, and the car will slide across the double yellow. Modern highways, even little county two lane black tops, have constant radius turns. This has been true for decades. The ACH is unusual in this regard.

When the Crest road was first penned by civil engineers, starting in 1929, the road was conceived as a fire access road. This was the start of the Great Depression. The stock market had collapsed that year, and funding for such projects was hard to find. Cars had solid axles, high centers of gravity and little power. Driving in the mountains was something you did slowly back then. The engineers who designed the Crest route had little incentive to keep the radius of the turns constant. Whereas they had every incentive to minimize the amount of earth that had to be moved during construction.

For a fire road, built at minimum cost for cars that would be traveling 20 mph, there was no incentive to design the road with constant radius turns. This may be why the ACH claims so many lives. Drivers, especially less experienced drivers, entering a blind turn, perhaps on a sport bike, have little in their experience of driving to know that an engineer working in 1930 was motivated to tighten the turn, rather than move a few thousand cubic yards of rock, gravel and dirt.

Any time after the second world war, the engineer would hold the radius and move the rocks. There is this fundamental difference in the layout of the Crest road, and a post-WWII high way."

The last time I drove ACH (E->W) in June last year as part of an overnight BMW CCA trip to Palm Springs, we came around a corner and on one of the big sweeping turns a few miles before coming into La Cañada Flintridge, traffic was completely stopped both ways. There was a rescue team retrieving a motorcycle rider who went over the edge. Fortunately, it was at a very large turnout and they were able to land a life-flight helicopter to take him away. Another part of the group was ahead of us and they reported that they were also stopped because of a different accident that closed both lanes.

I'd strongly advise anyone who is new to ACH to take at least one recon lap, drive it at the speed limit, keep your eyes up and be aware of your surroundings, and don't pass anywhere except at a turnout. Those decreasing radius turns will get you every time.

[jrkal2]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

I'd strongly advise anyone who is new to ACH to take at least one recon lap, drive it at the speed limit, keep your eyes up and be aware of your surroundings, and don't pass anywhere except at a turnout. Those decreasing radius turns will get you every time.

That's exactly what sent that car over the edge in the gopro chase vid (decreasing radius)

[BMWM5NYC]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

I used to live in Pasadena for 4 years in the mid-90s and ACH was one of my main driving roads. Over the last few years I've done it a few more times. It is a l-o-n-g road, about 66 miles, and there are plenty of official turnouts that are clearly marked, usually at least a half mile or more ahead, more than once, as well as other places where a pulloff can be done. The roadway varies from four wide lanes to two narrow lanes, and from broad, sweeping turns to windy twisty turns, some with guard rails and many without, and some with sheer rock walls just inches from the roadway. The roadway can be covered in gravel and rocks, and any time from Novemberish through Aprilish, when there's a cold rain in LA it will likely snow on ACH, and the road can be closed. And they get feet of snow! For a real thrill, you can take the very narrow, very windy, very blind barely two lane road up to Mt. Wilson where there's an observatory. It has absolutely stunning views of the entire LA basin, particularly in the winter after a heavy rain, all the way to the ocean glimmering in the distance.

This is actually a regular commuter road for people. In addition, there are many hiking trails and camping spots, and in the winter LA people go up there to play in the snow. There's actually a small ski slope with a lift or two on the eastern end, but I'm not sure that is still open (pre-COVID-19).

There is a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/134561703859272/), originally created for motorcyclists, which people use as a reference about accidents that have happened, the current state of the road, construction, closures, whether Newcomb's, a popular stop and restaurant is open, etc.

The first time I went to LA on business (from the Detroit area), it was February 1986, I stayed in Pasadena, and in the morning a friend and I drove up to ACH, drove the entire length east and then back west, had a snowball fight, and then drove down to Santa Monica, went to the beach and ogled California girls sunning themselves on the beach. That pretty much sold me on SoCal. I think that I tried surfing for the first time later that trip. It took me 3 years, but I moved to San Diego in 1989.

The last 2 times I drove cross country to LA , I stayed in Pasadena. I like staying there instead of LA proper. I got to drive the entire ACH during the mid day / midweek so I had the whole route to myself basically. It was a great July day drive.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by jmg

My favorite:

Just looking at that kids seating and hand position on the wheel was giving me anxiety

OP - you need to work on looking ahead, you were all over the place. Never cross the yellow lines - ever. If a guy on a motorbike is coming the other way you are dead. No offense but you clearly don't have much experience trying to drive quickly. At your current level you could be dangerous, like others side spend some time on the track and train yourself to keep your eyes up.

[Ru35ian]

Originally Posted by Jbonly21

There's no passing area, and there is a lot of slow drivers and you also have to watch out for bikers.

As a biker, trust me, we're watching out for drivers even more. Also, if you're on a bike, any short straight is a passing area.

When I go in my car, if I catch up to more than 3 in a row, I just pull over at an outlook and wait. No need to impose my desire to enjoy the road on what I hope are nice people not aware that they could be the ones to pull over instead. I've had some good luck with people allowing to pass are also there to drive recreationally, but commuters and those coming out for hikes are clueless and slowest.

To the OP: before you try anything else, just practice/learn how to stay between two solid lines. You can easily get someone killed even by clipping them.
Like others have said: it's a public road. While we may neglect speed limits sometimes, it's all the MORE IMPORTANT to OBEY ALL OTHER markings and rules. Maybe it's the camera effect, but that looked like a leisurely enough pace to easily keep a good line without crossing over. It's almost like you're not paying attention, but if that's the case, why even come up to ACH?

[Ru35ian]

Originally Posted by jrkal2

That's exactly what sent that car over the edge in the gopro chase vid (decreasing radius)

I second that. There's a particular decreasing turn that used to get me on my bike (where you can't really apply brakes or increase lean much if you don't see it coming) on return (I think it's last tight corner on the way back).

Also, scout for dirt/rocks. I've crashed a bike off a (different) canyon going about 50% pace coming around a corner and hitting a dirt patch that got washed out onto the road. Also, had an unplanned drifting opportunity in my M4 for the same reason.

Lastly, note for elevation changes (like the kid who drove into the rocks). Going uphill, you'll have better traction that going down on the same corners, bumps in the road really affect the traction on downhills too.

And of course, mind the blind corners (if there's a person/car standing on the road the end of that corner, do you give yourself enough time to stop or at least react?) and have at least one escape route in mind and know how to execute it (if a hazard occurs, where do you point the car until you can stop?).

[SD ///M4]

The new season of Jay Leno's Garage started on CNBC last Wednesday, although it's not really a new season because of COVID-19. Unable to film new episodes, Jay introduces some old episodes. I just watched it yesterday and one of the segments is about the Montrose Search & Rescue Team, a volunteer team of responders who work with the Los Angeles County Sheriff office to respond to accidents on ACH and other canyon roads and rescue people who have gone off the road and down the hill. Technically, they work for the Sheriff's office because they each take a salary of $1/yr. I remember seeing this segment when it aired originally.

In this segment, they stage a "rescue" of Jay, who has hit a low concrete barrier at the edge of the highway with his motorcycle and has gone over the edge and down the hill a couple of hundred feet. They roll up, assess the situation, and someone rappels down to do initial response on Jay. Then they set up a winch and a team of at least 4 people sends down a "litter" or stretcher, strap him in, and 2 people walk the litter up the hill as they winch it up. They only rescue people, not vehicles, as in the link I posted above. In the segment there is also some information on ACH how dangerous it can be, some statistics on how many people they rescue each year, along with some aerial video, and one epic crash with a car rolling down the hill shown from inside the car.

I searched for "Montrose Search & Rescue" on the Jay Leno's Garage YouTube channel but didn't find anything. I found this sneak preview of the episode but it's only a minute long: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/05/0...os-garage.html. Here's the FB page for the Montrose Search & Rescue Team: https://www.facebook.com/MontroseSea...escueTeamLASD/.

[bmwmike335]

I went today after work for a quick little drive just to kill 20 minutes.... CARS and BIKES EVERYWHERE. All over the place it felt like a Sunday afternoon on ACH. And not just card driving Up and down either but groups of people pulled over hanging out just chilling. Aren't y'all supposed to be home ?? lol