Bare minimum changes necessary for tracking F8x

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

More seasoned track people? Stop polishing a turd for these poor people. The NT01 ain't nothing special. Hell in hindsight, I would have rather just ran the old RE11's over them. The RE71R isn't necessarily the best track tire, but it is way more rounded and more up to date with current tire tech. Sorry, I suppose all the pro-nittos guys in hear have turned me into a hater of recent.

RE-71Rs would be great if they came in an 18" 305 width for the rear, but they don't. In 2016 when I bought my track wheels/tires I bought what was available and they seem to work just fine for me. Go read the APEX blog on how they tested various wheels/spacers and available tires to find the best possible fitment with the widest possible rear tires. This is what those who first bought in 2016 went by.

My wife had RE-71Rs for track tires on her 335is Coupe and they were great but now she has the same setup as I do on her 2018 M3 Comp. If the RE-71R came in an 18" 305 width, I'd certainly consider them.

You like the RE-71R and hate Nitto, but I'm not you.

[Kev608]

If you end up getting 18" wheels, which you should if you are going to be doing a lot of track time, Apex currently has an awesome group buy going. If the highest discount is reached, this deal is the best they've ever done.

https://www.gangup.com/apex/apex-18-...w-q1-2020.html

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

RE-71Rs would be great if they came in an 18" 305 width for the rear, but they don't. In 2016 when I bought my track wheels/tires I bought what was available and they seem to work just fine for me. Go read the APEX blog on how they tested various wheels/spacers and available tires to find the best possible fitment with the widest possible rear tires. This is what those who first bought in 2016 went by.

My wife had RE-71Rs for track tires on her 335is Coupe and they were great but now she has the same setup as I do on her 2018 M3 Comp. If the RE-71R came in an 18" 305 width, I'd certainly consider them.

You like the RE-71R and hate Nitto, but I'm not you.

Nah, I don't hate the Nitto's, I've just accepted they're inferior to the Yokohama 52s and Bridgestone 71s in *most* ways. I say that in an objective manner. A 285 71R is prolly just as fast or faster than the 305 NT01.

Just because you track a lot does not mean you have/should get 18inch wheels.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Just because you track a lot does not mean you have/should get 18inch wheels.

Care to explain? Please tell me how a 19" or 20" wheel/tire setup (in a narrower width) is superior to an 18" wheel/tire setup?

Common wisdom has pretty much decided that the 18" wheel/tire setup is the most cost-effective for the F80/F82 platform and weighs less than a similar 19" or 20" setup. What is your setup and how many track days do you have on your M3?

Please remember that my 18" setup is track/autocross only, not for the street. I have the 19" Style 437 wheels on Michelin PS4S tires for the street.

P.S. Have you read the APEX fitment blog yet? https://www.apexraceparts.com/blog/f...11-et44-wheel/. I spoke with APEX a couple of years ago and they now recommend the Nitto NT01 instead of the Toyo R888.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Care to explain? Please tell me how a 19" or 20" wheel/tire setup (in a narrower width) is superior to an 18" wheel/tire setup?

Common wisdom has pretty much decided that the 18" wheel/tire setup is the most cost-effective for the F80/F82 platform and weighs less than a similar 19" or 20" setup. What is your setup and how many track days do you have on your M3?

Please remember that my 18" setup is track/autocross only, not for the street. I have the Style 437 wheels on Michelin PS4S tires for the street.

P.S. Have you read the APEX fitment blog yet? https://www.apexraceparts.com/blog/f...11-et44-wheel/. I spoke with APEX a couple of years ago and they now recommend the Nitto NT01 instead of the Toyo R888.

That comment was meant for the other poster. Sorry I may have misworded that tho; theroterically 18's would be ideal, but in reality there's really not that many tires that fit well with the F80 (other than Nittos and Hooisers) if keeping the staggered setup. However, you could run the setup Shadow and be fine. It would be interesting to see a heads up comparison between the various setups (square on 18s, 52 vs 71, 275/305 Nittos, etc.).

I read the blog along time ago when I was deciding whether to get the APEX setup or not. What's your point? Might be digging myself a hole at this point, sorry for singling out your comments

[Kev608]

There is an absolute plethora of track tire options at 18". This is an extremely common size and many of them can be made to fit the F8X platform pretty easily. I have both Nitto NT01 and Toyo RR tires in 18" sizes on Apex wheels. I decided to force 295's to fit the front and crammed 315's in the rear, but I believe the RR's are available in each step from 275-315.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Kev608

There is an absolute plethora of track tire options at 18". This is an extremely common size and many of them can be made to fit the F8X platform pretty easily. I have both Nitto NT01 and Toyo RR tires in 18" sizes on Apex wheels. I decided to force 295's to fit the front and crammed 315's in the rear, but I believe the RR's are available in each step from 275-315.

Considering larger sizes than the NT01 in the standard 275/305.

What did you fit in the larger sizes and did you have to use spacers with your Apex wheels? 295/315? Nice! Any feedback?

[Kev608]

295/30 front just needed camber plates and 15mm spacers, but I may try 20mm and a touch more camber. 315/30 in the rear needed nothing to fit, but does slightly rub the outer wheel well. Nothing a heat gun can't fix once I have an idea of exactly where it is rubbing.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually driven the car with these tires installed yet. I keep it garaged over the winter to avoid the cancerous salt they coat Wisconsin with every winter.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Nah, I don't hate the Nitto's, I've just accepted they're inferior to the Yokohama 52s and Bridgestone 71s in *most* ways. I say that in an objective manner. A 285 71R is prolly just as fast or faster than the 305 NT01.

Just because you track a lot does not mean you have/should get 18inch wheels.

My expectation before getting the nittos was RE-71R is probably faster at cost of shorter life and potential loss of grip in heat- exactly a reason why people don't use them in racing leagues and prefer RS4 or something more lasting. I think Nittos wears better and they are cheaper ~$1200 for all four. In the longer term I would save more $$$ and cancel out cost of apex wheels. 19" RE-71Rs are expensive.

Having said that I didn't buy them for lap time, I was in fact impressed what kind of lap times they gave me and it keeps going down. I can't say which is faster since I have not driven RE-71R in M4, but I am pretty happy with it. From this point, if I want better tires I would get something like BFG-R1.

It's interesting that one side of people prefer RE-71R and another prefer NT-01. We should probably just say people to buy them all and compare for one's own preference.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Care to explain? Please tell me how a 19" or 20" wheel/tire setup (in a narrower width) is superior to an 18" wheel/tire setup?

I spoke with APEX a couple of years ago and they now recommend the Nitto NT01 instead of the Toyo R888.

The OEM wheel setup is superior in the sense that you don't need to invest and then store a second set of wheels. Just plop RE71s on and you can use those wheels and tires everywhere.
A dedicated set is still better if you have the space to store them and like carrying wheels around.
Personally I am not dedicating a set of tires to NT01, because I could have essentially the same speed with RE71s.

The R888 may be worse than the R888R, which is a horrible, unadulterated piece of shit. I ran a set and removed them half way through their wear and trashed them. Literally seconds slower than a set of RE71s

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

My expectation before getting the nittos was RE-71R is probably faster at cost of shorter life and potential loss of grip in heat- exactly a reason why people don't use them in racing leagues and prefer RS4 or something more lasting. I think Nittos wears better and they are cheaper ~$1200 for all four. In the longer term I would save more $$$ and cancel out cost of apex wheels. 19" RE-71Rs are expensive.

Having said that I didn't buy them for lap time, I was in fact impressed what kind of lap times they gave me and it keeps going down. I can't say which is faster since I have not driven RE-71R in M4, but I am pretty happy with it. From this point, if I want better tires I would get something like BFG-R1.

It's interesting that one side of people prefer RE-71R and another prefer NT-01. We should probably just say people to buy them all and compare for one's own preference.

And that's the thing, I've used both NT01 and RE71 back to back several times. As well as the R1, which is faster than either and actually worth carrying in your back seat.

After the stopwatch confirmed my NT01 275 square 10" setup was slower than the staggered 255/275 RE71s I had on my ZCP wheels, well, I haven't bought another NT01 tire. I no longer suggest people buy dedicated wheels if all they want to run is a NT01, because they could get the same performance out of a set of RE71s mounted on their stock wheels.

You can get the NT01 for 800-850 if you wait until the sales. The RE71s are around 1050 for the same 275/35 setup.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

And that's the thing, I've used both NT01 and RE71 back to back several times. As well as the R1, which is faster than either and actually worth carrying in your back seat.

After the stopwatch confirmed my NT01 275 square 10" setup was slower than the staggered 255/275 RE71s I had on my ZCP wheels, well, I haven't bought another NT01 tire. I no longer suggest people buy dedicated wheels if all they want to run is a NT01, because they could get the same performance out of a set of RE71s mounted on their stock wheels.

You can get the NT01 for 800-850 if you wait until the sales. The RE71s are around 1050 for the same 275/35 setup.

That's the thing, the NT01 are not the fastest tires, by far. They are however a great budget option for the track rat. They offer decent grip, very good wear characteristics, predictable break-away, are immune to heat cycling and very consistent throughout their life. If I wanted to be the fastest guy on track, I would not be running NT01. I am out there just to have fun with my buddies and the NT01 allows me to this while keeping consumable costs relatively low.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

And that's the thing, I've used both NT01 and RE71 back to back several times. As well as the R1, which is faster than either and actually worth carrying in your back seat.

After the stopwatch confirmed my NT01 275 square 10" setup was slower than the staggered 255/275 RE71s I had on my ZCP wheels, well, I haven't bought another NT01 tire. I no longer suggest people buy dedicated wheels if all they want to run is a NT01, because they could get the same performance out of a set of RE71s mounted on their stock wheels.

You can get the NT01 for 800-850 if you wait until the sales. The RE71s are around 1050 for the same 275/35 setup.

Where do you get the sales? Please share.

I never said RE-71R is slower. I was just freaked out how fast it wore on my Miata, so I wanted to try the NT-01 route for my wallet and decent performance. I also wanted to have a separate set of track tires/wheel and keep OEM wheels with MPSS because of winter. Also RE-71R didn't have sizes for 18" wheels nor offered 305 like someone stated.

What you've said about NT-01/R888/RE-71R and so are all consistent with what I have heard/experienced, performance-wise. I agree that there is a good chance for better lap times with RE-71R for me as well. I am just happy with this setup because not only it seem to last well but also is unexpectedly fast enough to not think about RE-71R. Perhaps massive 305 rear tires help faster track out which counts a lot.

I am just trying to say 275/305 NT-01 setup has some good values, although it's not recommended for beginners. RE-71Rs are not good for beginners either, if focused on learning rather than just focusing on a safer track day experience, way too sticky to learn limits. Then we know the ultimate trap that F8x is not a good car to learn limits as a beginner. Oh well.

[SYT_Shadow]

To put it another way, I fear that the standard advice we -the more experienced track people on the forum- give newbies is wrong.

Given how fast a set of RE71s in stock sizes are, there really is no need for people to be buying extra sets of wheels.

Extra wheels are still great, but I feel that it is much more optional than I felt many years ago when I started tracking, where I bought a set of 18x10 Arc8s for my second event.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

What you've said about NT-01/R888/RE-71R and so are all consistent with what I have heard/experienced, performance-wise.

Mind you, the R888R is not in the category of the NT01.

The NT01 is an ok tire. It's cheap and people say it doesn't heat cycle, although my last set were toast before getting them worn down.
The hard sidewalls of the NT01 are also helpful to those without camber plates.

The R888R is a steaming pile of shit. Tire mounting/dismounting is $200 over here and I still threw them away.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Mind you, the R888R is not in the category of the NT01.

The NT01 is an ok tire. It's cheap and people say it doesn't heat cycle, although my last set were toast before getting them worn down.
The hard sidewalls of the NT01 are also helpful to those without camber plates.

The R888R is a steaming pile of shit. Tire mounting/dismounting is $200 over here and I still threw them away.

Yes, I meant you are right on what I heard that R888* are pretty bad. Interestingly I heard those are popular choices for Miata guys while it's not so great with heavier car (my guess).

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

Yes, I meant you are right on what I heard that R888* are pretty bad. Interestingly I heard those are popular choices for Miata guys while it's not so great with heavier car (my guess).

for sure things are different depending on how much the cars weigh. What is right for a Miata isn't necessarily right for a M3

[Montaver]

I ran 255/275 RE-71's on my E90, phenomenal grip. My main gripe is how I needed to buy new front's every 4 days including a flip, rears lasted around 6.

Not sure what I'm going to run on the M2C, although I have a set of 275 rears laying around so RE-71 will be first. I'd like to try the AO52's, they appear to be non directional so safer to rotate. The 400mm front brakes on the M2C mean a BBK is mandatory for 18's, which after dropping $60k on the car is somewhat irritating.

I'd be tempted to try Nitto's to save money more than anything, but they are definitely not arrive and drive like Cup2's, RE-71's, AD08r's etc.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

And that's the thing, I've used both NT01 and RE71 back to back several times. As well as the R1, which is faster than either and actually worth carrying in your back seat.

After the stopwatch confirmed my NT01 275 square 10" setup was slower than the staggered 255/275 RE71s I had on my ZCP wheels, well, I haven't bought another NT01 tire. I no longer suggest people buy dedicated wheels if all they want to run is a NT01, because they could get the same performance out of a set of RE71s mounted on their stock wheels.

You can get the NT01 for 800-850 if you wait until the sales. The RE71s are around 1050 for the same 275/35 setup.

And that's what I meant by my posts as well.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's the thing, the NT01 are not the fastest tires, by far. They are however a great budget option for the track rat. They offer decent grip, very good wear characteristics, predictable break-away, are immune to heat cycling and very consistent throughout their life. If I wanted to be the fastest guy on track, I would not be running NT01. I am out there just to have fun with my buddies and the NT01 allows me to this while keeping consumable costs relatively low.

I dont even think it's all that much of a value tire. If I wanted to have fun only I would just get a RS4, RE71, or insert another any good street tire. More confidence inspiring tires IMHO.

[OhioRiderAaron]

On the topic of tires, has anyone thought about trying the Nankang AR-1's? Seems like they offer a few decent size options for both 18 and 19in rims.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

On the topic of tires, how anyone thought about trying the Nankang AR-1's? Seems like they offer a few decent size options for both 18 and 19in rims.

I've heard about them several times but the idea of running a chinese tire is scary as hell

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

On the topic of tires, has anyone thought about trying the Nankang AR-1's? Seems like they offer a few decent size options for both 18 and 19in rims.

Couple guys in Bimmer challenge are running those out here and posting really good lap times