Thinking of putting oem ZCP springs back on - Am I overthinking this?

[F82ny]

I’ve had Swift springs on my ‘16 m4 Comp for 1500 months and while the look is exactly what I was going for, I’m worried about damage a lowered height can result in. I’m not so concerned about things that can be easily replaced like suspension components. What are the chances that lowering springs paired with stock dampers can result in things like cracked shock towers? Far fetched or possible? For that reason I’m thinking of just putting the OEM ZCP springs back on. I don’t have the budget for quality coilovers right now as well.

Am I overthinking this?

Thanks

[F80Speed77]

Yes.

[henrylee]

Yes overthinking

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Absolutely swift is a conservative drop. By the time u save up for coil overs who cares about your shocks

[knightarmor]

Overthinking it. Your shocks will be toast before anything else even comes close to being a problem.

[F82ny]

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by RoadRunner///M

Depends on the miles that you do. From my own experience the ride deteriorated after a few 100 km. The EDC/VDC OE Sachs shocks are rubbish to start with and will begin to wear at a faster rate with any lowering due to the reduced range of travel. Your ride comfort will deteriorate as will handling. Doubt they would crack though.

There is no lowering spring on the F8x platform that will improve/maintain OE comfort (not that OE is comfortable).

If coilovers are too costly, then consider going for Bilstein B6 Damptronic shocks + lower springs. This combo will give you greatly improved handling & comfort/compliance.

I think your response is directed more towards the longevity of the shocks. I know they will fail prematurely but I was really asking about the shock towers and if aftermarket springs can lead to cracks and damage over time. It’s part of the unibody so that’s why I’m a little concerned. Shocks are easy enough to replace.... frame and unibody components not so much

[dvq]

Other than messing with your car's roll center and decreasing damper life, you're not doing any harm to your car except for maybe scraping on more stuff.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Enjoy the car now. Even if the problems you described occur they would be so down the road.

[F82ny]

Not sure how or why the thought crossed my mind but when I went down the rabbit hole I stumbled upon this

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-tower-failure

Lots of guys there saying that lowering the car can lead to premature shock tower failure. Once I read that, the concern stuck with me.

[9M71]

Originally Posted by F82ny

Not sure how or why the thought crossed my mind but when I went down the rabbit hole I stumbled upon this

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-tower-failure

Lots of guys there saying that lowering the car can lead to premature shock tower failure. Once I read that, the concern stuck with me.

Much much older car...

If this was a known problem it would be documented already. F8x has been out for more than half a decade.

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by F82ny

Not sure how or why the thought crossed my mind but when I went down the rabbit hole I stumbled upon this

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-tower-failure

Lots of guys there saying that lowering the car can lead to premature shock tower failure. Once I read that, the concern stuck with me.

This is a much newer and better built chassis, designed with track use in mind. I'm sure it has much stronger shock towers.

You'll just shorten the life of the shocks a bit which isn't a big deal, they are wear items and will wear out at some point regardless. When that time comes around you (or the next owner) can use it as an opportunity to upgrade them.

[Redacre]

Long time ago I had a lowered Hyundai Tiburon and ran over debris that damaged the bottom of the radiator causing coolant to leak out and the engine to overheat ultimately leading to complete failure. I think even if the car had been stock height it would have still happened, but it's something that I keep in mind now driving a lowered car.

[F82ny]

Maybe it was a moment of weakness where I went into panic mode. When you see images line the one below, it’s scary to think that it could happen and lowered suspension could possibly accelerate that happening. I think I’m still going to put the stock springs back on and when I have the shop do it I’ll have them inspect the strut towers. If I’m going to lower the car I’m going to do it properly either with MP HAS or coilovers. I get that the HAS kit is still essentially springs but I figure if the OEM is making it, it can’t be detrimental to the car or cause the issues that crossed my mind

[F82ny]

Is this the factory reinforcement of the strut tower you guys are talking about?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/31302361991/

Would something like this be effective at minimizing shock tower cracking?

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by F82ny

I get that the HAS kit is still essentially springs but I figure if the OEM is making it, it can’t be detrimental to the car or cause the issues that crossed my mind

So why are you worrying then? Why do you think the branding of the springs makes them magically safer?

Your concerns are completely unfounded, you're making up things to worry about in your head.
Consider the M4 GTS and GT4 versions which can be much stiffer. Do they have any extra strut tower reinforcement?

[F82ny]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

So why are you worrying then? Why do you think the branding of the springs makes them magically safer?

Your concerns are completely unfounded, you're making up things to worry about in your head.
Consider the M4 GTS and GT4 versions which can be much stiffer. Do they have any extra strut tower reinforcement?

Valid points. Thanks for the feedback

[ellipsis212]

Keep in mind the BMW HAS system exists and uses the stock shocks. You're not going to explode.

[Rahul718]

Originally Posted by ellipsis212

Keep in mind the BMW HAS system exists and uses the stock shocks. You're not going to explode.

While that's true, I think the concern is that the OP has Swifts which are a stiffer spring rate paired with ZCP suspension which is already stiffer than base. While the MP HAS doesn't have spring rates published, many say it is softer than other stand alone spring options available.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

So why are you worrying then? Why do you think the branding of the springs makes them magically safer?

Your concerns are completely unfounded, you're making up things to worry about in your head.
Consider the M4 GTS and GT4 versions which can be much stiffer. Do they have any extra strut tower reinforcement?

So true... not only that but I believe these cars come with KW club sport coilovers as stock OEM equipment.

OP - I’ve lowered every single car I’ve ever owned for the past 30+ years including my last 3 BMWs. I’ve tried springs only, springs and aftermarket shocks, sleeved coil over kits, full coilovers, with and without upper camber plates, etc. Not one has ever had a cracked shock tower... ever.

[F82ny]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

So true... not only that but I believe these cars come with KW club sport coilovers as stock OEM equipment.

OP - I’ve lowered every single car I’ve ever owned for the past 30+ years including my last 3 BMWs. I’ve tried springs only, springs and aftermarket shocks, sleeved coil over kits, full coilovers, with and without upper camber plates, etc. Not one has ever had a cracked shock tower... ever.

True. Ever since I read the below I can’t seem to get it out my head

“What this means is that because of the thin materials, if you increase the loads on the towers (ie by installing stiffer, lower springs or coilovers that transmit more load than the OEM shocks), the shock towers can’t stand up to the forces it is being subjected to.”

https://blog.**********s.com/bad-shr...s-mushrooming/

Granted the above pertains to the e46 m3, I was just curious if the f80 might be susceptible to this as well when using a stiffer suspension setup. I guess time will tell!

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by F82ny

True. Ever since I read the below I can’t seem to get it out my head

“What this means is that because of the thin materials, if you increase the loads on the towers (ie by installing stiffer, lower springs or coilovers that transmit more load than the OEM shocks), the shock towers can’t stand up to the forces it is being subjected to.”

https://blog.**********s.com/bad-shr...s-mushrooming/

Granted the above pertains to the e46 m3, I was just curious if the f80 might be susceptible to this as well when using a stiffer suspension setup. I guess time will tell!

Best way to avoid issues like that is: 1) don't get a super old car that was built to older, weaker standards and is brittle with age. 2) don't overly lower your car.

If you think about the person you quoted, it actually makes no sense. Stiffer springs actually transmits LESS load to the shock towers. Why? Because if you have a properly set up suspension that is not constantly bottoming out, guess what is absorbing all of the forces of impact? The springs and shocks/struts, not the shock towers.

OTOH, if you are trying to slam your car and running a 1 finger gap space in front or even tucking tire and having 1/2" of suspension travel, when you go over bumps and things on the road, you are basically slamming all 3600 lbs of your car into the 4 shock towers when you bottom your car out.

Get a high quality coilover kit and don't overly lower it. Stick w/ recommended settings. Don't try to get a coilover kit, then be worried about a harsh ride and get super soft springs for it. Why? Because the car will bottom out like crazy and still ride like shit and may actually cause more damage to your car from bottoming out.

It's like jumping off a 6 foot ladder with legs and knees bent to cushion the landing vs. landing with legs fully locked. You will fuck up your knees and hips if you don't allow your legs, tendons, muscles, ligaments to bend to absorb the shock.

[F82ny]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Best way to avoid issues like that is: 1) don't get a super old car that was built to older, weaker standards and is brittle with age. 2) don't overly lower your car.

If you think about the person you quoted, it actually makes no sense. Stiffer springs actually transmits LESS load to the shock towers. Why? Because if you have a properly set up suspension that is not constantly bottoming out, guess what is absorbing all of the forces of impact? The springs and shocks/struts, not the shock towers.

OTOH, if you are trying to slam your car and running a 1 finger gap space in front or even tucking tire and having 1/2" of suspension travel, when you go over bumps and things on the road, you are basically slamming all 3600 lbs of your car into the 4 shock towers when you bottom your car out.

Get a high quality coilover kit and don't overly lower it. Stick w/ recommended settings. Don't try to get a coilover kit, then be worried about a harsh ride and get super soft springs for it. Why? Because the car will bottom out like crazy and still ride like shit and may actually cause more damage to your car from bottoming out.

It's like jumping off a 6 foot ladder with legs and knees bent to cushion the landing vs. landing with legs fully locked. You will fuck up your knees and hips if you don't allow your legs, tendons, muscles, ligaments to bend to absorb the shock.

I totally get it. Main concern here was I’m already on a stiff OEM suspension and then paired with Swifts it’s even stiffer. I don’t know if the F8x chassis was built for that and these articles I’ve looked up make it seem like a lowered ride with stiff suspension is a contributing factor to shock tower damage. I’ll let it go... it’s probably a factor with a chassis that was already known to have weak shock towers in stock condition