INDustry distribution
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-25-2019, 04:45 AM   #1
Mani59
BMW Miniature Collector!
United Kingdom
837
Rep
5,941
Posts

Drives: E63 630i & E46 330i Individual
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Leicestershire

iTrader: (1)

__________________

My (mainly) BMW gallery: http://jetone.co.uk

Previous : E90 ///M3 | F20 M135i | E63 630i | E65 730d | Plus many 3 and 5er's
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2019, 05:35 AM   #2
M3Fahrer
Second Lieutenant
M3Fahrer's Avatar
119
Rep
254
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 CS
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: South FL

iTrader: (0)

I knew what the outcome was going to be just from the title of this post.

The title should be All electric vs. AWD vs. RWD (non ZCP M3)
__________________
Current: 2018 M3 CS - Alpinweiss
Previous: 2015 F80 - Alpinweiss - Euro Delivery
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2019, 06:52 AM   #3
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
9805
Rep
16,021
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
If the rolling drag race would have been done in manual mode in the right gear, the M3 would have eaten the Tesla.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 1
Humdizzle447.00

      05-25-2019, 08:28 AM   #4
Fender150
First Lieutenant
United_States
185
Rep
364
Posts

Drives: F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Slow take off but nice gain from a roll, I remembered seeing this taking the rs4 atleast
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2019, 11:20 AM   #5
nicknaz
Major General
nicknaz's Avatar
United_States
2370
Rep
9,513
Posts

Drives: F31 330
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
If the rolling drag race would have been done in manual mode in the right gear, the M3 would have eaten the Tesla.
The m3 did win the roll race.

This is how itís always been though, right? Rwd will take the high speed roll, awd will take it from a dig, and then itís a negotiation in the low speed roll to try to be at a speed thatís better for your carís gearing so you can get the jump
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2019, 11:49 AM   #6
M3GymNut
Captain
386
Rep
627
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 BSM
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

Que mierda
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2019, 12:48 PM   #7
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
9805
Rep
16,021
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
The m3 did win the roll race.

This is how it’s always been though, right? Rwd will take the high speed roll, awd will take it from a dig, and then it’s a negotiation in the low speed roll to try to be at a speed that’s better for your car’s gearing so you can get the jump
The Tesla got a jump while the M3 had to downshift. If the M3 would been in the right gear at any speed rather than in 7th, as any competent driver would have done, it would built a much larger gap.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-26-2019 at 06:01 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2019, 05:39 AM   #8
ZCD1
Private
ZCD1's Avatar
11
Rep
58
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chi-town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
...then itís a negotiation in the low speed roll to try to be at a speed thatís better for your carís gearing so you can get the jump
And that right there is the Teslaís advantage in daily driving - up to about 120 mph itís always in the right ďgearĒ.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2019, 12:34 PM   #9
nicknaz
Major General
nicknaz's Avatar
United_States
2370
Rep
9,513
Posts

Drives: F31 330
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
And that right there is the Teslaís advantage in daily driving - up to about 120 mph itís always in the right ďgearĒ.
Which Tesla do you have? I have Model 3P and if was roll racing against it Iíd ask for a 65-120mph pull

A powerful gas car would be in 3rd in the powerband and would just start pulling harder and harder on my car as the speed rose

0-75mph (daily driving speed), I agree with you, Tesla is a beast and always ďonĒ
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2019, 03:13 PM   #10
afadeev
Colonel
afadeev's Avatar
1078
Rep
2,476
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
This is how it’s always been though, right? Rwd will take the high speed roll, awd will take it from a dig, and then it’s a negotiation in the low speed roll to try to be at a speed that’s better for your car’s gearing so you can get the jump
I'm kinda disappointed for RS4.
The rest is as expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The Tesla got a jump while the M3 had to downshift. If the M3 would been in the right gear at any speed rather than in 7th, as any competent driver would have done, it would built a much larger gap.
DCT's kickdown is brutally quick, but Tesla's torque drops linearly as electric motor RPMs rise (gradually north of 20 mph, faster north of 45 mph).
Downshifting concern is much bigger with RS4's slushbox.

I do wonder if neither car had to shift, and RS4's slush box didn't take a nap, how the RS4 would have compared to M3.

We don't get RS4 in the US, but RS5 is priced started at $74.2K. So it's always slower, and more expensive than M3/4.
I am not sure what Audi is trying to do there....

a

P.S.: TM3P dyno chart:
__________________
'19 TM3P (BK/BK)
'15 F80 M3 (SO/SS)
ex-'17 I01 i3-BEV (PB/DD), ex-'15 I01 i3-REX, ex-E90, E46, E36's, E30's
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2019, 03:49 PM   #11
ZCD1
Private
ZCD1's Avatar
11
Rep
58
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chi-town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Which Tesla do you have?
P3D, like you.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 02:27 AM   #12
dkhm3
Brigadier General
dkhm3's Avatar
United_States
1708
Rep
3,255
Posts

Drives: 2019 911S 2015 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
And that right there is the Tesla’s advantage in daily driving - up to about 120 mph it’s always in the right “gear”.
I really enjoy knowing my speed and the right gear to be in on a pass- it is really rewarding to me to drive well and to interact with my car going slow or fast. I drive both my 911 and m3 in manual mode 99% of the time.

I respect the ev and their effortless speed, I have driven the model 3 p.

I know what happens and it always happens for me with fast cars, I get used to the pull and it no longer feels as fast as it did when I first got it. In my experience, the cars I have loved are the ones that reward driver connection and input.
__________________
Currently:
2019 911S 2015 M3

Previously:
1999 M3 2002 M3 2005 S4 2008 C63 2016 X5M
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 06:42 AM   #13
ZCD1
Private
ZCD1's Avatar
11
Rep
58
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chi-town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
In my experience, the cars I have loved are the ones that reward driver connection and input.
I know exactly what you mean about connecting with the car. The Model 3Pís steering is amazingly quick and precise, and its handling and suspension tuning make me feel very connected to the car. Not needing to focus on which gear youíre in allows you to focus on what the car is doing and what the suspension is telling you, and the regenerative braking allows driving the way it was meant to be.

I knew the car would be quick when I test drove it, but it was the handling and overall refinement that most impressed me.
Appreciate 1
CanAutM39805.00

      05-27-2019, 10:41 AM   #14
allinon72
Captain
allinon72's Avatar
United_States
967
Rep
986
Posts

Drives: 15' M3, 12' Raptor, 17' X1
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, IN

iTrader: (0)

Summary of video: M3 doesn't get the power down (shocking), we all knew it wouldn't and Carwow did too, and the driver made it worse.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 12:45 PM   #15
dkhm3
Brigadier General
dkhm3's Avatar
United_States
1708
Rep
3,255
Posts

Drives: 2019 911S 2015 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
I know exactly what you mean about connecting with the car. The Model 3P’s steering is amazingly quick and precise, and its handling and suspension tuning make me feel very connected to the car. Not needing to focus on which gear you’re in allows you to focus on what the car is doing and what the suspension is telling you, and the regenerative braking allows driving the way it was meant to be.

I knew the car would be quick when I test drove it, but it was the handling and overall refinement that most impressed me.
I found the steering to be numb, I could not feel or sense the road, it is more video game to me, it is quick though. I also found the car heavy in transitions, you can feel it weighs 4k pounds, it neither light nor nimble. It reminded me of my X5M, which was quite the piggy.

different strokes for different folks.
__________________
Currently:
2019 911S 2015 M3

Previously:
1999 M3 2002 M3 2005 S4 2008 C63 2016 X5M

Last edited by dkhm3; 05-27-2019 at 12:52 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 12:50 PM   #16
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY
Colonel
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY's Avatar
No_Country
1593
Rep
2,052
Posts

Drives: Totaled Toyota Celica :((
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Trenton, NJ

iTrader: (0)

whats the point of racing an electric vs ice; with shit bag drivers; and under 60mph...thats like me racing usain bolt in 100meters
Appreciate 1
      05-27-2019, 08:14 PM   #17
hellrotm
Major General
2586
Rep
6,003
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
If the rolling drag race would have been done in manual mode in the right gear, the M3 would have eaten the Tesla.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The Tesla got a jump while the M3 had to downshift. If the M3 would been in the right gear at any speed rather than in 7th, as any competent driver would have done, it would built a much larger gap.
This is how they do all their roll races. It has been pointed out before in past videos. It is so stupid how they use auto in high gear waiting for kick down. Who the hell roll races like that? You do that at any of the airstrip events, you will get your as* handed to you every race.
Appreciate 1
CanAutM39805.00

      05-28-2019, 02:36 PM   #18
nicknaz
Major General
nicknaz's Avatar
United_States
2370
Rep
9,513
Posts

Drives: F31 330
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
I know exactly what you mean about connecting with the car. The Model 3Pís steering is amazingly quick and precise, and its handling and suspension tuning make me feel very connected to the car. Not needing to focus on which gear youíre in allows you to focus on what the car is doing and what the suspension is telling you, and the regenerative braking allows driving the way it was meant to be.

I knew the car would be quick when I test drove it, but it was the handling and overall refinement that most impressed me.
I let one of my friends (6mt Golf r/Nd miata/Jag f type owner) drive my Model 3P this past weekend and he definitely saw Tesla in a new light

When push comes to shove though, the low 3000lb/hydraulic steering/500+hp/6mt gas sports cars are still the ones (today anyway) that leave you giggle like little kids
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2019, 04:54 PM   #19
ZCD1
Private
ZCD1's Avatar
11
Rep
58
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chi-town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
When push comes to shove though, the low 3000lb/hydraulic steering/500+hp/6mt gas sports cars are still the ones (today anyway) that leave you giggle like little kids
Fun fact: The F-Type, despite having only 2 seats and being smaller overall than the Model 3P, weighs almost exactly the same - over 4,000 lbs. (!!!)

Crazy.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 12:43 AM   #20
Ghosn
Lieutenant
Australia
337
Rep
456
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Melbourne

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
This is how they do all their roll races. It has been pointed out before in past videos. It is so stupid how they use auto in high gear waiting for kick down. Who the hell roll races like that? You do that at any of the airstrip events, you will get your as* handed to you every race.
As hellrotm mentioned, they basically do their rolling races in comfort mode and simulate you cruising down the highway and all of a sudden you need to quickly get on the gas and race someone.

I don't agree with their methods but that's how they do it.
__________________
2018 ///M3 ZCP
Mineral White | Black Leather | DCT

taxcht
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 05:04 AM   #21
ZCD1
Private
ZCD1's Avatar
11
Rep
58
Posts

Drives: 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chi-town

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosn View Post
...simulate you cruising down the highway and all of a sudden you need to quickly get on the gas and race someone...
Seems like theyíre simulating normal passing situations, not ďracingĒ situations...
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 05:45 AM   #22
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
9805
Rep
16,021
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
Seems like they’re simulating normal passing situations, not “racing” situations...
That not how I "normally" pass. I watch for a hole on the other lane. When the hole approaches, I downshift to the right gear. When the hole is there, I punch it. That's how I learned to do it when driving manual cars and that's still how I do it today on my DCT. Proper driving skills is all about anticipation.

I've been refuting this CarWow approach from the get-go.
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 3
cntzl4182.50
JTO242056.00

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST