European Auto Source
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > M3/M4 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-24-2014, 04:58 PM   #45
acey81
First Lieutenant
Sweden
24
Rep
304
Posts

Drives: F15 X5 40d M-sport; F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

iTrader: (0)

I think car reviews are becoming more and more subjective as time goes (and maybe access / blogging / youtubing evolves). I think here is not doubt that the F8X is more capable and as a pure driving tool in going as fast as you can from point a to point b better in every way.

But there is a huge debate nowadays about "feel" and "digital" cars compared to "analog" ones. It goes all the way from the super cars F40, F50 vs new gen Ferraris, Carrera GT vs 918 Spyder, 997 GT3 vs 991 GT3 etc. I for one love the 458s, the GT-Rs the new 991 GT3 vs the 997 GT3. And that trickles down to the new gen M3 / M4 (no other comparisons made). The new generation cars may have lost some of that "feel" from being less loud, and I suppose "less raw" in some ways. But that, in my mind, is made up by the hyper quick reflexes, the incredible engines, gearboxes and pieces of technology that make the cars surgically precise and super quick. The way technology makes these cars greener and faster and, in my opinion, more fun to drive.

If I want a truly analog experience I would rather drive the E30 the E28 M-cars. I think in hindsight we will see these cars from the early / late 2000s as not the last of the really great cars but as a beginning of the era that is truly starting to take shape now.

* I have owned a number high performance AMG vehicles and preferred the C63 to the E90 M3.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:12 PM   #46
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
Kayani_1's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
1,650
Posts

Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

iTrader: (1)

I love the looks of the M3/M4 and certain aspects of the car. Just not the whole of the car. They could have made it more raw, fun and visceral but I guess they think buyers of M3/M4 have grown up and want a more sedated performance machine. I don't have problem with turbo cars and in fact quiet love my N54. I just think an M car should be spine tingling raw and fun experience. Otherwise buy a 435i M-sport and throw tunes and suspension upgrade at it and get fast sedated experience.

Now the hope resides with M2.

But for me personally the only BMW car that does anything right now is i8 the car is ground breaking with few like it from the competitors in its price range.

My next car though might not be BMW after nearly 2 decades of BMW ownership of multiple series cars.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
"Yet in this company it is lacking the connection and character that separates the good from truly great sports cars."

"Where the BMW M4 is admired, the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Edition 507 is adored."

These two quotes say it all. Can't believe the E9x destoryed the C63, and now all of a sudden the new M3 is having trouble keeping up with the C63 that was not considered a great driver's car at the time. The M3 has become more competent but not as fun to drive. Hard to accept electric steering and turbos have detached the driver from the experience this much.

Wish I could have the new body on my E9x, spend 20k to get a supercharger and Brembo brakes, and have a 'proper' sports car. I've test drove the M3 for the third time, definitely feels like a small M5, not what an M3 is supposed to feel like. It's disappointing. Glad I have a GT3 RS for that involved experience, but still finding it difficult to let go and get an M4 for a daily commuter.

Oh well... First world problems. Time heals all. lol
__________________
nickname"BAD 3",MHD E85 tune,RennArt catback non-resonated exhaust,VRSF Downpipes, VRSF 7"FMIC,VRSF stock side inlets,SSQV BOV,ECS CP,M-performance alcantara steering,retrofit M3 paddle shifters,Alpina B3 tranny flash,AFE power seal CAI,LED angels,ST Coilovers,M3 upper/lower control arms,E93 M3 Front Swaybar ,235/35/19x9 ,275/30/19x9.5. M sport bumpers, CF diffuser. When in doubt..flat out.

Last edited by Kayani_1; 07-24-2014 at 05:21 PM.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:13 PM   #47
ss134
Brigadier General
ss134's Avatar
United Kingdom
173
Rep
3,901
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Germany/UK

iTrader: (1)

It's only one reviewers opinion and he is known for his love of C63s. The M4 is just as fast, better handling, much more modern with better fuel consumption and a much better transmission and to my eyes looks much better. I can make my own mind up. M4 thank you.
__________________
2014 AW F80 M3 DCT
2011 AW E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2010 JZB E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2009 6MT E90 LCI 335i M -Sport - Sold
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:16 PM   #48
JS919
First Lieutenant
JS919's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
365
Posts

Drives: 340i & i3
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Henderson, NV

iTrader: (0)

I guess this review settles all debates, the E9X is better than the F8X. Everyone agrees right? The E9X was better than the C63 and the C63 is better than a F8X. I mean this reviewers opinion is all that matters. It is undeniable proof. Anyone with a different opinion is just a troll.

I rely on other people's opinions to make all my decisions for me. So now I won't need to pick up the M4 I ordered that will be at the dealer next week. All this anticipation to get the new M4 and the car I bought 6 years ago is better. Who'd of ever guessed? From now on I'll be over on the E9X forum, this one is for losers with crappy cars.
__________________
Current BMWs - 2016 340i - 2014 Capparis White i3
Past BMWs - 2008 M3 Coupe - 2009 M3 Coupe - 2011 1-Series M - 2012 335is - 2013 M5 - 2013 M6 - 2014 M5 Competition Package - 2014 M235i - 2015 M4 - 2015 M3 - 2016 M4 Comp PKG - 2017 M2 - 2018 M4 Comp PKG
Appreciate 1
      07-24-2014, 05:28 PM   #49
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1025
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scutts View Post
It looks like the particular C63 is cheaper in Australia. Where they talk about $10k difference is between M3 and M4 in Australia. It's interesting to know that M3 and C63 are much more expensive car in Australia... There's barely any difference in dollar value.. (1.06)

Having said that, this is a win #2 in comparo for W204 C63... Sad for the M division.
I was not speaking of Australian pricing

Base Price of a BMW M4: 64,200 USD
Base Price of C63 edition 507: 75,125 USD

Price difference of $10,925
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:34 PM   #50
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1025
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
Yes the 507 edition would be a keeper for sure.
a quick search and looks like there are barely any for sale in the US. It seems the C63 edition 507 is in between the regular c63 and the black edition, BMW M is missing a competitor here since there is the base M3/4 and the GTS but no middle car
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:39 PM   #51
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1025
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Drive an LCI ('12+) car if you can. You'll enjoy it.

The transmission isn't necessarily a true automatic. There is no torque converter. It has been replaced by a wet start-up clutch.

As far as the suspension is concerned, my C63's suspension feels firmer than M4's (which I have driven; I liked it a lot). The steering feel on the C63 is very nice as well (firm; consistent, irrespective of driving mode). The steering feel on the M4 is lovely as well, just different (maybe a bit heavier in S+ with slightly less feedback).
I wish I could, but unfortunately I only know one person who owns an AMG and she has an SL63
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:44 PM   #52
modkrazy
Lieutenant Colonel
modkrazy's Avatar
1
Rep
1,538
Posts

Drives: m3
Join Date: May 2014
Location: tx

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I love the looks of the M3/M4 and certain aspects of the car. Just not the whole of the car. They could have made it more raw, fun and visceral but I guess they think buyers of M3/M4 have grown up and want a more sedated performance machine.
The chorus of complaints about the old car from the U.S. market came down to three things:

1. More city torque so we don't have to shift down to pass on the highway, or be embarrassed by Jeep SRT8s at stop signs - Check!
2. Better fuel economy so we don't have to spend half our lives at the pump - Check!
3. Cupholders! - Check!

Seems like BMW knows their target market very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
I guess this review settles all debates, the E9X is better than the F8X. Everyone agrees right? The E9X was better than the C63 and the C63 is better than a F8X. I mean this reviewers opinion is all that matters. It is undeniable proof. Anyone with a different opinion is just a troll.

I rely on other people's opinions to make all my decisions for me. So now I won't need to pick up the M4 I ordered that will be at the dealer next week. All this anticipation to get the new M4 and the car I bought 6 years ago is better. Who'd of ever guessed? From now on I'll be over on the E9X forum, this one is for losers with crappy cars.
The review did not call the M4 a crappy car for losers. Nor was anyone shouting down countering opinions as trolls. Like you said, this is a single reviewer's opinion. Why are you so defensive? With an attitude like that, it won't matter what forum you go to, you'll always be the loser.

Last edited by modkrazy; 07-24-2014 at 05:50 PM.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 05:46 PM   #53
aussiem3
Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
223
Rep
2,588
Posts

Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scutts View Post
It looks like the particular C63 is cheaper in Australia. Where they talk about $10k difference is between M3 and M4 in Australia. It's interesting to know that M3 and C63 are much more expensive car in Australia... There's barely any difference in dollar value.. (1.06)

Having said that, this is a win #2 in comparo for W204 C63... Sad for the M division.
The 507 C63 AMG is priced below the base price of M3/M4 as a run-out special. I don't know how much that will eat into the initial take up of the M3/M4. The M3/M4 make it's first public appearance on Saturday in Australia. The cars have been sitting in custom bond for over a couple weeks with BMW Australia refusing to release it do the dealers until closer to the public release.
__________________
E92 M3 2007 - ///PE with Test Pipes and BPM Stage II; CF Interior & Splitters; CIC with Connected Drive
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 06:02 PM   #54
scutts
Second Lieutenant
4
Rep
232
Posts

Drives: Jet Black E92M 6mt
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Queens, NY

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
The 507 C63 AMG is priced below the base price of M3/M4 as a run-out special. I don't know how much that will eat into the initial take up of the M3/M4. The M3/M4 make it's first public appearance on Saturday in Australia. The cars have been sitting in custom bond for over a couple weeks with BMW Australia refusing to release it do the dealers until closer to the public release.
Thanks for the insight...it's still amazingly more expensive compared to the cars in the US. I just never realized it..
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 06:06 PM   #55
scutts
Second Lieutenant
4
Rep
232
Posts

Drives: Jet Black E92M 6mt
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Queens, NY

iTrader: (3)

Ohh, miscommunication. No biggie. I still lust after an F82 - and I see that you have a 6MT (yay). How's the ride so far?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I was not speaking of Australian pricing

Base Price of a BMW M4: 64,200 USD
Base Price of C63 edition 507: 75,125 USD

Price difference of $10,925
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 06:16 PM   #56
irablumberg
Private First Class
72
Rep
158
Posts

Drives: 2015 C63S; 2015 M4 (sold)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bab0i View Post
They finally fixed it [C63 overheating on track]. They released an update "cooling" package that uses black series oil coolers, but you have to purchase it from the dealer.
And estimates run upwards of $7,500. Not something I'm happy about for a car that was promoted as a high performance model. This represents an after the fact price increase of 10%.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 06:40 PM   #57
ybbiz34
Brigadier General
ybbiz34's Avatar
439
Rep
4,958
Posts

Drives: 2013 C63 AMG Sedan
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I wish I could, but unfortunately I only know one person who owns an AMG and she has an SL63
If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'd be happy to throw you the key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
I am a C63 owner, looking to switch my car. My car is virtually sold, and as I love the M4's mean yet purposed look and cabin, I want to purchase one. As in Brazil not only has the car not arrived yet, but very few people which own cars like this go to forums, to express their opinions, which is a shame, as no one actually gets to know everything about the car before buying it.

I have owned an E92 M3 2009 Black. I barely used it, yet I can say it is a hella of a car. I switched in 2011 to a brand new Audi RS5. Good car, yet not the most fun, due to the Quattro and electronic interference. Then I moved from the RS5 to a C63 in 2013, and boom, I quickly found a car to fall in love with, yet as time goes by, new tech and design comes, therefore it is hard to admit it, but I am going to say goodbye to the Merc, especially as the M4 grow on to me, in a way I certainly did not expect.

This is just a simple comparo not looking into any depth. What I can say from experience is the C63 AMG LCI, is a huge improvement from the first 2008 to come out. Not only has the car become a better DD, as the suspension has gotten better damping, as the car become much better handling due to the diference in camber, and the addition of new Agility System dampers made the whole package change. I am still not sure of what to do.
Excellent points! I thoroughly enjoy both the W204 C63 and the M4. There really is no better car to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
No s**t Sherlock! lol

Don't take everything you read literally. It's obvious I mean it in the context of a better driver's car.

The E92 ripped apart the C63 in most comparison tests. Now all of sudden the C63 is better? I hope the competition package in the MY2016 is extensive, but I doubt it.
Yeah it was really obvious. You said the E9X "destroyed" the C63.

I have never seen one review in which the E9X "destroyed" the C63. And by the time the LCI model came out, the comparison test results started to swing in the AMG's favor.

For entertainment purposes, the W204 C63 vs. F80/F82 comparison is interesting but in reality, the former is a 7-8 year old design while the latter has been out for only mere months. I expect the F80/F82 to be a more modern, "higher tech" car.

The F82 certainly felt like the "fresher" car when I drove it.

The W205 C63 will be the proper comparison point.
__________________
'13 Iridium Silver C63 AMG Sedan (540 hp; 500 lb-ft)
Review of F82 M4: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1008143
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 06:40 PM   #58
irablumberg
Private First Class
72
Rep
158
Posts

Drives: 2015 C63S; 2015 M4 (sold)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Yellow View Post
Not to argue with you but thats also the reason why many of us don't buy the GTR because it distracts the driving feel. Yes it is fast, but it doesn't give you the same soulful feeling that, say, a GT3 RS would give you. Personally I would much rather have a car that brings me more excitement rather than a car that is fast because when will we ever drive a car to its limit for it to matter? And if say we track it, I am sure most of us don't have the ability to come close to what the car is capable of.
I don't want to start a flame war here, but I am sick of hearing about how the GT-R feels disconnected or lacks "soul." I doubt most of the folks making such statements have ever driven a GT-R, particularly the 2013+ models.

I had a 2014 GT-R for a year after a long string of performance cars including an Audi S4TT, 2 different C6 Corvettes, a CTS-V and the wife's 2012 C63. Of all these cars, the GT-R felt the MOST connected. It responded so quickly to inputs and so predictably that it felt almost telepathic. For example, it was easy to 4 wheel drift around corners when desired even with the stability control fully engaged. By comparison all of the other cars mentioned were much more difficult to dive fast. There seems to be some weird view that unless a car is difficult to drive at or near the limit, you aren't really "connected" to the car. I doubt I will ever again own a car as capable or connected as the GT-R. /flame off

As to the current M3/M4, I strongly disagree with the quoted review. My wife's C63 has the performance package which provides performance more or less equivalent to the 507 (see for example the latest C&D review that shows near identical performance for the 2012 C63 Coupe w/PP and the current 507). I agree that the V8 is one for the ages. however, the transmission (while fun in its most aggressive automatic mode) is a total slug in manual mode compared to the M4 DCT. Even more glaring is the lack of traction from the stock tires (and the relatively narrow wheels and fenders limiting the ability to install more appropriate rubber). The rear tires are 255 Contis. I break them loose all the time without even trying. Accelerate even moderately in a corner and watch the back end of the car do its best to swap with the front end (even with stability control fully engaged). Numerous reviews have also pointed out that turning off stability control is something that should be limited to semi-pro drivers due to this same end swapping tendency. By contrast, all the M4 reviews I have seen have commented that turning off stability control offers a great opportunity for highly controlable drifting.

Don't misunderstand, the C63 is a blast to drive and very comfortable on the highway for long drives. However, for aggressive street and any track driving, the M4 is much more fun because you can push it harder with far less risk of encountering roadside ditches and trees.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 07:01 PM   #59
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1025
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by scutts View Post
Ohh, miscommunication. No biggie. I still lust after an F82 - and I see that you have a 6MT (yay). How's the ride so far?
I love it! and ever since I dropped her off in France 3 weeks ago I've been missing her like crazy! once I'm in it I forget all the negative stuff I hear from reviewers or forum members, I love my turbos and the sounds that they make I don't even need an aftermarket exhaust to make the car sound good
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 07:02 PM   #60
Powaup
Brigadier General
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
1025
Rep
3,596
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'd be happy to throw you the key.
Sounds great to me! you don't reside in California by any chance?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 07:06 PM   #61
Year's_End
RWD only.
Year's_End's Avatar
United_States
498
Rep
12,435
Posts

Drives: 2015 S550 GT
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Pete, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
I guess this review settles all debates, the E9X is better than the F8X. Everyone agrees right? The E9X was better than the C63 and the C63 is better than a F8X. I mean this reviewers opinion is all that matters. It is undeniable proof. Anyone with a different opinion is just a troll.

I rely on other people's opinions to make all my decisions for me. So now I won't need to pick up the M4 I ordered that will be at the dealer next week. All this anticipation to get the new M4 and the car I bought 6 years ago is better. Who'd of ever guessed? From now on I'll be over on the E9X forum, this one is for losers with crappy cars.
The greatest part about this post is that the rest of this thread is relatively neutral with opinions and commentary. Why are you acting so defensive?
__________________
Past:'08 E92 335i|ZPP|ZSP|6AT|four (4) HPFPs

Present:'15 Mustang GT|401A|PP|6MT|Recaros
Sig pic unrelated. I like to go sideways and stuff.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 07:33 PM   #62
pjdizzle94
Colonel
pjdizzle94's Avatar
United_States
177
Rep
2,774
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335i, 2015 C7 Z06/Z07
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Yorba Linda, CA

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuckaGDog View Post
If I could find a C63 Edition 507 that wasn't overly overpriced for sale I would pick one up in heartbeat! By the time I considered on getting one they stopped production on the sedan models in preparation for the next generation. It was around this time last year when people started rushing to order their 507 models.

At this point I don't care if its a coupe or sedan 507 I just want one lol. I only have seen one on eBay and they are asking $70k+.

theres a guy on mbword that wants to get rid of his lease... dude bought a bought he's also selling it for 67500 which is his buyout. almost went for it but also going to mercedes in about an hour or so to look at a 2014 c63
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #63
Daft
Major
Daft's Avatar
Canada
338
Rep
1,202
Posts

Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
2011 BMW M3  [4.87]
Send a message via ICQ to Daft Send a message via Skype™ to Daft
The 507 is a fantastic car no doubt. My buddy let's me drive his sometimes and it's pure delight! Here's his car with mine..
Full photoshoot here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1014697

__________________

2018 M4 ZCP | SAN MARINO BLUE | ULTIMATE PACKAGE | BOOTMOD3
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 08:07 PM   #64
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1807
Rep
5,688
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

The C63 is a fantastic car... the sound is the best I have heard on any car IMO.

The transmission and weight are the only real downsides.

What I don't agree with is the overall assessment. When a car has better handling, feels lighter and has a better transmission... the whole "soul" thing is too subjective to rely on as everyone will have a different take on what that means to them.

Having owned a C63 coupe and the M4, if you take away the "sound" aspect, the M4 feels much more capable, more lively, more fun... to me. The C63 sounds intense and that makes it a hugely enjoyable car. The M4 feels far more nimble, responsive and capable.

For the street, I think it is completely personal preference (although I really like the more "go kart" feel of the M4 vs the C63). For the track, there is no competition IMO.
__________________
2018 340i | Mineral Gray | Current DD | C8 mid-engine Corvette to come next year
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 | 1996 E36 M3 (track car)
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 09:05 PM   #65
raffyg2388
Private
0
Rep
55
Posts

Drives: e90 328i I6
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: socal.

iTrader: (0)

I lust over a 507 wagon. The 507 is a special car with parts from the black series and the added improvements from the lci. Bmw should of done the same treatment with the e90m with parts from the gts or crt. Anyways I remember when the lci of the c63 amg came out and it was winning a lot of comparisons with the e90. Also faster on the ring. So I think the review is fair knowing the improvements of the lci were substantial were enough to top the old m3 and then even more improvements with the 507 vs a first year f80. How old is the c63 amg platform anyone? Plenty time of time for revisions. hope the f80 gets the same treatment over time.
Appreciate 0
      07-24-2014, 09:06 PM   #66
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
449
Rep
2,386
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Shelby GT350R
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Agree with what you're saying. The amount of sensitivity and defensiveness is quite crazy. This particular review is not an outlier, but actually corroborates quite a few points brought up by numerous reviews, including TG and another one which stated that the last ZCP E90 was at least as enjoyable as the new car. You'll probably see more reviews talk about the modest numbing down of the traditional M driving experience, which is to be expected with a turbo charged car (revs, sound, throttle response) with electric steering (while precise, won't feel the road as much). Which is fine, as the new car does a quite a few things better too; however accusations, name calling or outright distortion of info are getting ridiculous. For example, "new M3 is faster than a supercharged E92", when the traps/times clearly showed the opposite. Also that E30 DTM vs M4 thread was the epitome for me, where obviously the same driver was driving both cars, you heard some ridiculous assertions: 1) it's the same helmet but not the same driver; 2) the M4 guy obviously doesn't know how to drive; 3) you're not reading the German article right, because the English translation from a source that isn't exactly the most reliable is saying it isn't the same driver.

People should just read articles and weigh the evidence, pro and con and try to get a broad perspective of opinions rather than name calling or accusing anyone who doesn't like the new car (or vice versa). This is a forum that is supposed to be about constructive opinions and agreeing to disagree is okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
The chorus of complaints about the old car from the U.S. market came down to three things:

1. More city torque so we don't have to shift down to pass on the highway, or be embarrassed by Jeep SRT8s at stop signs - Check!
2. Better fuel economy so we don't have to spend half our lives at the pump - Check!
3. Cupholders! - Check!

Seems like BMW knows their target market very well.


The review did not call the M4 a crappy car for losers. Nor was anyone shouting down countering opinions as trolls. Like you said, this is a single reviewer's opinion. Why are you so defensive? With an attitude like that, it won't matter what forum you go to, you'll always be the loser.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST