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      07-24-2014, 09:57 PM   #67
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Going through some vids of the exhaust of the 507. Man it makes the m3 v8 sound like a bitch. Damn!
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      07-24-2014, 10:15 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
I don't want to start a flame war here, but I am sick of hearing about how the GT-R feels disconnected or lacks "soul." I doubt most of the folks making such statements have ever driven a GT-R, particularly the 2013+ models.

I had a 2014 GT-R for a year after a long string of performance cars including an Audi S4TT, 2 different C6 Corvettes, a CTS-V and the wife's 2012 C63. Of all these cars, the GT-R felt the MOST connected. It responded so quickly to inputs and so predictably that it felt almost telepathic. For example, it was easy to 4 wheel drift around corners when desired even with the stability control fully engaged. By comparison all of the other cars mentioned were much more difficult to dive fast. There seems to be some weird view that unless a car is difficult to drive at or near the limit, you aren't really "connected" to the car. I doubt I will ever again own a car as capable or connected as the GT-R. /flame off
I raced a 2014 GTR at Circuit of the Americas (ironically with BMW CCA). Phenomenal car. It has truly astounding performance. While I agree with you that it DOES feel very connected...it still however has no soul. It was connected in the sense that I can feel every bone-jarring bump on the road (even in comfort mode) to the point where it hurts. It's connected in the sense that I can tell the tires are understeering like crazy...(actually much more so than my RS5 does - which was really shocking/disappointing)...And on corner exits YES you can do BIG 4 wheels drifts - but those drifts can't be delicately tweaked - you just mash the throttle and hold on. The GTR was also the quickest stock car in the group BY FAR. Easy to drive fast and easy to pass everything in sight (just like you mentioned). Despite all that I still found out it very robotic, video-game like, and more like I was along for the ride rather than actually having to do challenging or driver involving (except for battling terminal understeer). In a way, it was too easy. It also just doesn't have a great soundtrack in stock form (aftermarket is a different story). I also think the M4 lacks some soul compared to older M cars and current sports cars - but it had more soul than the GTR...at least to me

Here's what Randy Pobst/Motortrend had to say on the GTR and I have to say I 100% agree.

Quote:
Surprisingly, we all liked the GT-R least. Part of the reason is how unrepentantly crude the thing is. One might assume the Camaro would be the worst-riding vehicle of the three. Or the loudest. Or the most uncomfortable. Only it totally isn't. That trophy rests on the GT-R's mantle. For the 20th time, what are those noises? I've heard printing presses with fewer mechanical howls. To be fair, Nissan is not only aware of the problem, but claims to have addressed ride quality and overall aural trauma with the softened 2015 model. Unfortunately, as with the Nismo, those cars weren't ready for this test. We also didn't care for how it drove. As far as cars go, the GT-R is totally, mind-blowingly amazing. If anyone ever hands you the keys to one, grab them and don't let go. But within the confines of this comparison test, the GT-R came in last on the road. Said Pobst, "Still an awe-inspiring weapon with AWD cleats on its feet. Firm suspension is quick and controlled. Too controlled, in my opinion. The thrilling experience is dulled by too much understeer and a soundtrack by Hoover vacuums.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz38RTlJuTx
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      07-24-2014, 10:34 PM   #69
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Just cant beat that AMG V8. people who say sound, and engine FEEL don't matter are just full of shit.
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      07-25-2014, 01:59 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
I get that the C63 amg edition 507 is a great car and has the best hand built V8 engine but is it that good that even with a crappy automatic transmission it's better than an M4?

I'm obviously bias because I own an M4 and have never driven a C63 but I feel that the final result of the C63 wining the comparison is unfair when the M4 wins in suspension, breaking, transmission, price($10k less), technology and fuel consumption
Yeah, the review was subjective, not objective imo.
Feelings can do so much, when the sound make goosebumps, it's hard to be fair imo.
The M4 is clearly the better car overall.
but this is purist who like the old tech, as with the electric steering, the new generation of tech isn't always easy to swallow.
Let's see how they feel when the merc get's "modern", then what?
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      07-25-2014, 04:03 AM   #71
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All these E90 guys hate the F80/F82 enough to jump on the C63 bandwagon
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      07-25-2014, 07:31 AM   #72
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While driving an E92 M3 I never found that I was struggling for torque. However, what I did find was that few people were suffering from lack of oxygen to brain cell or preoccupied with thoughts of how to operate a 7-speed DCT M3 properly. Because if you do it right there is never a reason why you would get smoked by SRT8 due to lack of torque. One pull on the paddle shifter to drop to lower gears and you could run with anyone. I mean people do that with a pure manual car all the time any ways shift to a lower gear to race someone. Why was it she an issue I never understand. Why would someone sit there and press gas pedal down all the way in 7th gear which was for fuel economy. Pull that thing called shifter and say not so fast to the Jeep SRT-8.

My favorite M3 will still be E9x and E46 era cars. I was too young for the ones from before that but I mean those generation cars never lost to the likes of MB or Audi they were a cut above the competitors. Others aspired to make cars just like theirs. Oh well times have changed due to fuel efficiency and rising gas prices and pollution issues etc...etc..

Maybe not BMW but I guess I can still have a last hora in a 6.2 liter V8 with visceral appeal, fury of sound and raw fun factor that is missing with new M cars while enjoying sleek shape and latest and greatest technology in a C7 Z51 all the while saving money.


At the end no doubt the new M3/M4 are nice cars they are just not superb a cut above others in their class like they used to be.





Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
The chorus of complaints about the old car from the U.S. market came down to three things:

1. More city torque so we don't have to shift down to pass on the highway, or be embarrassed by Jeep SRT8s at stop signs - Check!
2. Better fuel economy so we don't have to spend half our lives at the pump - Check!
3. Cupholders! - Check!

Seems like BMW knows their target market very well.

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      07-25-2014, 07:39 AM   #73
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Listen to an E92 M3 GTS and it is amazing. Also, both V8's have different characteristic the C63 507 has a more NASCAR like muscular sound and M3 GTS has shrieking spine tingling Formula car like scream. Neither is better than the other both sound fantastic just a different type of sound. F8x M cars leave a bit to be desired.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raffyg2388 View Post
Going through some vids of the exhaust of the 507. Man it makes the m3 v8 sound like a bitch. Damn!
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      07-25-2014, 09:21 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'd be happy to throw you the key.



Excellent points! I thoroughly enjoy both the W204 C63 and the M4. There really is no better car to me.



Yeah it was really obvious. You said the E9X "destroyed" the C63.

I have never seen one review in which the E9X "destroyed" the C63. And by the time the LCI model came out, the comparison test results started to swing in the AMG's favor.

For entertainment purposes, the W204 C63 vs. F80/F82 comparison is interesting but in reality, the former is a 7-8 year old design while the latter has been out for only mere months. I expect the F80/F82 to be a more modern, "higher tech" car.

The F82 certainly felt like the "fresher" car when I drove it.

The W205 C63 will be the proper comparison point.
Perfect comment, and thanks for the complement.


Now adding to what I said before: I have to say, I did not get a chance to drive a F80/F82 M Bimmer, as they are not available here, so I can not really compare it with a C63. My C63 is a Sedan with P31 and LSD. It is close to perfection, as the car is terrificly fast, it is fun, has tons and tons of torque, oversteers everywhere, yet I can take another 4 people comfortably with more than enough space for their luggage. People complain about the weight but I think that is a huge misconception, as never I really felt the need for the car to be lighter. The car does feel pretty nimble, actually even more than the my ex M3 E92. It handles marvellously as well, just as well as my old Bimmer. Only upgrade I did was add the KW V3 springs (that cost me a fortune) to control the height to get better reactions and comfort depending on what I want. If you turn the Traction Control to Sport, put the knob into S+ (oddly enough the paddles react more quickly in S+ than in M), you get an awesome car. So please stop saying the C63 is too heavy, or too lost, as it is clearly not, all you gotta do is adapt to the torque delivery, learn the best settings and off you go.
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      07-25-2014, 09:24 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
I guess this review settles all debates, the E9X is better than the F8X. Everyone agrees right? The E9X was better than the C63 and the C63 is better than a F8X. I mean this reviewers opinion is all that matters. It is undeniable proof. Anyone with a different opinion is just a troll.

I rely on other people's opinions to make all my decisions for me. So now I won't need to pick up the M4 I ordered that will be at the dealer next week. All this anticipation to get the new M4 and the car I bought 6 years ago is better. Who'd of ever guessed? From now on I'll be over on the E9X forum, this one is for losers with crappy cars.
The E9X was better than the C63 pre LCI. The after LCI, sorry pal but it is not better. The C63 evolved from a shit rolly oversteering crap, to a car which actually handles, is practical and very very fast. The LCI tricks you by the look, but actually it is a whole different car.
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      07-25-2014, 09:27 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
The C63 is a fantastic car... the sound is the best I have heard on any car IMO.

The transmission and weight are the only real downsides.

What I don't agree with is the overall assessment. When a car has better handling, feels lighter and has a better transmission... the whole "soul" thing is too subjective to rely on as everyone will have a different take on what that means to them.

Having owned a C63 coupe and the M4, if you take away the "sound" aspect, the M4 feels much more capable, more lively, more fun... to me. The C63 sounds intense and that makes it a hugely enjoyable car. The M4 feels far more nimble, responsive and capable.

For the street, I think it is completely personal preference (although I really like the more "go kart" feel of the M4 vs the C63). For the track, there is no competition IMO.
Man best post of the thread. Could you please give a detailed comparison of how the 2 match up. Sorry to bother you, it is because I want to get a M4, but I never drove one so I don't know how it matches up with my C63.
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      07-25-2014, 09:30 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'd be happy to throw you the key.



Excellent points! I thoroughly enjoy both the W204 C63 and the M4. There really is no better car to me.



Yeah it was really obvious. You said the E9X "destroyed" the C63.

I have never seen one review in which the E9X "destroyed" the C63. And by the time the LCI model came out, the comparison test results started to swing in the AMG's favor.

For entertainment purposes, the W204 C63 vs. F80/F82 comparison is interesting but in reality, the former is a 7-8 year old design while the latter has been out for only mere months. I expect the F80/F82 to be a more modern, "higher tech" car.

The F82 certainly felt like the "fresher" car when I drove it.

The W205 C63 will be the proper comparison point.
Sorry to bother you, but could you give like details on how they compare. The M4 is being sold here by reservation, and if I want to get a car this year, I have to do one blindly, therefore I want to know how it matches up with the C63.
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      07-25-2014, 10:00 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
The greatest part about this post is that the rest of this thread is relatively neutral with opinions and commentary. Why are you acting so defensive?
You say I'm being defensive? What am I actually defending in my post? I don't currently own any of the cars in question. I would be more inclined to say my post was offensive. I was just echoing the opinions of some of previous posters. Of course I put a sarcastic twist to it, but my points were not original.
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      07-25-2014, 10:33 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
The review did not call the M4 a crappy car for losers. Nor was anyone shouting down countering opinions as trolls. Like you said, this is a single reviewer's opinion. Why are you so defensive? With an attitude like that, it won't matter what forum you go to, you'll always be the loser.
You've certainly blown my tongue-in-cheek post out of proportion. You've really hurt my feelings with your harsh reprimand and name calling.
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      07-25-2014, 10:40 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtman View Post
All these E90 guys hate the F80/F82 enough to jump on the C63 bandwagon
There's maybe a good reason why some E9x owner don't like the F8x that much, have you ever though of that!? Is it because BMW slap a M3/M4 badge on a car that we automaticly must want one!?

I for one don't hate the new model, but don't think it's an upgrade to a nicelly modded E9x either!
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      07-25-2014, 10:46 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
While driving an E92 M3 I never found that I was struggling for torque. However, what I did find was that few people were suffering from lack of oxygen to brain cell or preoccupied with thoughts of how to operate a 7-speed DCT M3 properly. Because if you do it right there is never a reason why you would get smoked by SRT8 due to lack of torque. One pull on the paddle shifter to drop to lower gears and you could run with anyone. I mean people do that with a pure manual car all the time any ways shift to a lower gear to race someone. Why was it she an issue I never understand. Why would someone sit there and press gas pedal down all the way in 7th gear which was for fuel economy. Pull that thing called shifter and say not so fast to the Jeep SRT-8.
I never struggle for torque either, I was just listing the common complains BMW was hearing when they designed the new car.

SRT8s are badass. It can propel that massive Jeep 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, with lower times in the real world. Hennessey has managed to tune them to drop that time to 3.9. If you have traction issues or are less than perfect off the line, a Jeep SRT8 can and will give an M3 an embarrassingly hard time.

Quote:
At the end no doubt the new M3/M4 are nice cars they are just not superb a cut above others in their class like they used to be.
While I have my issues with the M3/M4, I mostly disagree with this comment. Yes, BMW used to crush all comers when it came to driving dynamics, and maybe they've gotten a bit softer over the years (E92 was softer than E46, for example). Still, if you are looking for a total package of performance, handling, agility, amenities, and day-to-day livability, the M3 remains the benchmark it always has been. This may change as other manufacturers release their new models in this segment, because cars overall have evolved (even GM can make a nice interior now, for example!) to the point that it's harder and harder to differentiate between them all, but if you want one car for everything, you can't buy a better car than an M3. Period.

Last edited by modkrazy; 07-25-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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      07-25-2014, 12:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
I love the looks of the M3/M4 and certain aspects of the car. Just not the whole of the car. They could have made it more raw, fun and visceral but I guess they think buyers of M3/M4 have grown up and want a more sedated performance machine.
The chorus of complaints about the old car from the U.S. market came down to three things:

1. More city torque so we don't have to shift down to pass on the highway, or be embarrassed by Jeep SRT8s at stop signs - Check!
2. Better fuel economy so we don't have to spend half our lives at the pump - Check!
3. Cupholders! - Check!

Seems like BMW knows their target market very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
I guess this review settles all debates, the E9X is better than the F8X. Everyone agrees right? The E9X was better than the C63 and the C63 is better than a F8X. I mean this reviewers opinion is all that matters. It is undeniable proof. Anyone with a different opinion is just a troll.

I rely on other people's opinions to make all my decisions for me. So now I won't need to pick up the M4 I ordered that will be at the dealer next week. All this anticipation to get the new M4 and the car I bought 6 years ago is better. Who'd of ever guessed? From now on I'll be over on the E9X forum, this one is for losers with crappy cars.
The review did not call the M4 a crappy car for losers. Nor was anyone shouting down countering opinions as trolls. Like you said, this is a single reviewer's opinion. Why are you so defensive? With an attitude like that, it won't matter what forum you go to, you'll always be the loser.
Maybe because he's got a new M4 on order?
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      07-25-2014, 05:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosM4 View Post
Sorry to bother you, but could you give like details on how they compare. The M4 is being sold here by reservation, and if I want to get a car this year, I have to do one blindly, therefore I want to know how it matches up with the C63.
I have already done an extensive comparison.

Here is the thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1008143

Hope it helps.
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      07-25-2014, 05:32 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
It's only one reviewers opinion and he is known for his love of C63s. The M4 is just as fast, better handling, much more modern with better fuel consumption and a much better transmission and to my eyes looks much better. I can make my own mind up. M4 thank you.
True. But the W205 C63 will be the true competitor to the F80/F82. The W205 will have 476 horsepower in standard trim while the "S" model will receive a very healthy 510 horsepower. Both cars will have 480-495 lb-ft of torque, thanks to the new 4.0L biturbo V8 (which should eliminate the gas guzzler tax).

The W204 is 7-8 years old now.
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      07-25-2014, 05:52 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
True. But the W205 C63 will be the true competitor to the F80/F82. The W205 will have 476 horsepower in standard trim while the "S" model will receive a very healthy 510 horsepower. Both cars will have 480-495 lb-ft of torque, thanks to the new 4.0L biturbo V8 (which should eliminate the gas guzzler tax).

The W204 is 7-8 years old now.
Can't wait for it to come out. If Merc really go to town on weight , chassis and offer a dual clutch instead of MCT and the styling is right it should be quite a machine. I'm surprised BMW didn't go for around 460hp with the new F80s - would still have left room for the M5 and they must have known Merc would up the current C63s power by 20-30hp. Previously M have always had the handling ace up their sleeve to combat AMGs extra power but every new performance Merc that comes out is getting better and better in this regard. The new C63 could be the car that sees them out power and out handle the new M3.
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      07-25-2014, 05:54 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
Can't wait for it to come out. If Merc really go to town on weight , chassis and offer a dual clutch instead of MCT and the styling is right it should be quite a machine.
The good news is that the W205 will weigh at least 220+ lbs less than the W204! Mercedes-Benz has used more high strength aluminum over steel in designing the W205. The new SL roadster is made almost exclusively from this high strength aluminum.

Carbon ceramic brakes will also be offered for the first time on the W205. My W204 C63 sedan weighed in at approximately 3,820 lbs.
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      07-25-2014, 06:06 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
The good news is that the W205 will weigh at least 220+ lbs less than the W204! Mercedes-Benz has used more high strength aluminum over steel in designing the W205. The new SL roadster is made almost exclusively from this high strength aluminum.

Carbon ceramic brakes will also be offered for the first time on the W205. My W204 C63 sedan weighed in at approximately 3,820 lbs.
Let's hope they're not doing a BMW and claiming a bigger weight reduction than is actually the case! If this is the case the new C63 will weigh the same as the F80 and with all that extra power it will be faster. Only things left are handling and styling.... BMW have left themselves open for a knockout blow by only giving the new cars a 15hp bump over the old - should be interesting although the new F80 is putting down numbers that are not reflective of a 430hp car that weighs this much. Is it underrated? Does it actually have 460+? Will the Merc handle it's power? Will it be underrated! Will it really have reduced that much weight? Can't wait for the comparison reviews. When is it's official release date?
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      07-25-2014, 08:11 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss134 View Post
Let's hope they're not doing a BMW and claiming a bigger weight reduction than is actually the case! If this is the case the new C63 will weigh the same as the F80 and with all that extra power it will be faster. Only things left are handling and styling.... BMW have left themselves open for a knockout blow by only giving the new cars a 15hp bump over the old - should be interesting although the new F80 is putting down numbers that are not reflective of a 430hp car that weighs this much. Is it underrated? Does it actually have 460+? Will the Merc handle it's power? Will it be underrated! Will it really have reduced that much weight? Can't wait for the comparison reviews. When is it's official release date?
A 200 lb weight reduction would still make it heavier than an M3/4.
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