Car & Driver Long-Term M3

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Spied4US

The August issue of C&D has a 3-page discussion of the editors' experiences with an M3 they drove for 40k miles over 17 months. (The online version can be found here: (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review.) The print version (which I can't link) was very critical of the car.

For example, regarding the M3's suspension, C&D wrote: "Even set to comfort, the M3 [suspension] has the compliance of a race car. It pounds heavily over cracked pavement and freeway expansion joints, magnifying every imperfection in the road. We'd swear the chassis even gets jostled by painted lane markers and the shadows of telephone poles. And the ride got worse as the miles piled up. 'The more I drive this as it gets older, the more I dislike how much it crashes over bumps,' wrote the copy editor Jennifer Harrington after a return from a road trip."

The editors also complained repeatedly in the article about the problems they experienced with the exhaust system, creaks and groans from the chassis, and an unsolved front suspension vibration "of some sort" that went undiagnosed. Ultimately, the editors concluded the car was best suited for a track use but little else.

This article is the only one I'm aware of that was so critical of the M3, and very much at odds with what I've read here. Are they wrong? Deliberately exaggerating? (Joe, you out there?)

This is really, really old. Been beaten up here before:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1206060

[chillindrdude]

let me predict...they will jizz on the domestic offerings like the Camaro and Mustang.

maybe my expectations are different, but my adaptive suspension on comfort is plenty...well, comfortable. almost camry-like, dare i say. but it's not that magic carpet ride over every road surface irregularity. if i wanted that, i would have gotten some plush SUV.

the creaks and groans are from my door seals...which on a $70k plus car, i agree, should be better engineered.

the M3 is a trackable street car. to expect some land yacht ride is pretty assinine.

[Gibson6594]

Yea, this makes no sense to me. In Sport+ I certainly feel every bump and expansion point, and feel it harshly. In comfort I barely feel them and every thing is nice and smooth. These magazine agendas seem to get more ostentatious by the day.

[Rambler]

If their main criticism is that it feels too much like a race car, I'd say that's a great thing in my book! Although I guess with the US magnaride offerings, supposedly you get good compliance for daily driving with coilover like firmness when needed for the track. So maybe they feel spoiled by that which is hard to argue with.

[F83]

15,000 miles on mine and I still find excuses to take it for a drive. Had many many nice cars and many many BMWs over the years - this is my favorite by far. I will say though that my enjoyment went up 2X when I got an MPE and coded off active sound.

[shahano]

Everyone has their own opinion, but to say they would rather drive a Mazda 3.. i mean coe on...

[leftos]

I come from a 2015 Audi S3 that had the performance package with the magnetic suspension. I bought my M3 before selling the S3 so I got to alternate between both while trying to sell the latter. Admittedly the S3's magnetic suspension range was bigger than the adaptive suspension in the M, and Comfort is way softer and much much floatier in the S3. Would it make for more relaxing road trips? Sure. However, I feel the way the M3 suspension and seats are set-up I felt that although I knew the car was hitting bumps and moving around, very little was transferred to my body in the seat, compare to the S3 that on any suspension setting, however much it floated or hit the bumps hard, the whole thing would be felt across your body.

I ended up putting the S3 on dynamic suspension (which I never used to do, thinking it was too harsh before) for the last few days I drove it trying to replicate the feeling of the M3's comfort, however even though that fixed the floatiness, the fact that the whole grunt of the hit was transferred to my back and rest of my body made me dislike it.

I ended up being excited to get back in the M3 even if just for the seating/driving position and the suspension, never mind the speed and the handling and the noise and everything. The M3 in Comfort along with the seats (non-ZCP, mind you) beat the S3 hands down in any suspension setting in having me feel good in my seat. From being tucked in, to the minuscule transfer of road "noise" to my body, to having much less floatiness and better grip than the S3's Comfort/Auto suspension settings.

Will i miss the completely floaty A3-like "comfort" setting on the S3? Maybe, if I'm driving 8 hours straight, but even then I'm not sure given that I felt I was being jolted much more before than I am now.

I have no idea if the suspension will hold up long term, hell, I haven't even driven the car for a month yet. But I'm really happy with the suspension and ride so far. It hits the right notes between giving me confidence in the car's handling as well as making for a comfortable drive.

[GrussGott]

The F8x gets hammered by most of the major publications in the latest reivews, especially as all the new additions come out from the Americans and Germans. (Evo, Motortrend, C&D, etc)

And if you're sensitive to people calling your baby ugly, don't watch this Motor Trend review @ 12:40 where they say the steering is rubbery, ASD is like covering up a fart with glade, and it drives like an epidural:

[Fast4d]

my M3 with non adjustable suspension rides horrible on shit roads. Roads beat up by big rigs. expansion joints, mis matched slabs, etc. anyone in the LA area who drives the 405 in the sfv and westside will understand.

excellent to moderate surface I have no complaints.

[Xtabi]

I feel sorry for anyone who decides against buying this car after reading/watching any reviews. This is my first BMW and I'm still blown away by its awesomeness eight months later.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Xtabi

I feel sorry for anyone who decides against buying this car after reading/watching any reviews. This is my first BMW and I'm still blown away by its awesomeness eight months later.

It's a great time to buy/lease sports cars these days as they're all going to give you some pretty great performance ... so it's really a matter of trade-offs, value, and brand identity.

In the past I think there was a much larger gap, but these days we have our pick from a whole list of American, Japanese, and German cars: Nissan, Lexus, Cadillac, BMW, Merc, Audi, Porsche, etc etc and not just one but most of them have multiple models to pick from.

So, yeah, the F8x is an awesome car, but it has its trade-offs just as any of the others from the list do.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Fast4d

my M3 with non adjustable suspension rides horrible on shit roads. Roads beat up by big rigs. expansion joints, mis matched slabs, etc. anyone in the LA area who drives the 405 in the sfv and westside will understand.

excellent to moderate surface I have no complaints.

Yep. The ride is just too stiff for constant urban/suburban driving on the east coast. And even in the suburbs where you find smoother highways and such, if they're not butter smooth, the M can still grow tiring with all the racket, and the rough ride over expansion joints, patched potholes and such. And let's be honest, in every day traffic, at regular speeds, it doesn't even sound all that special (even with aftermarket exhausts, unless you like it loud all the time).

And if you're complaining, Fast4d, living in the LA area, you can't even imagine the suffering for many of us F8Xx owners in the northeastern part of the country. LOL

So I have no arguments with every word of the Car and Driver article.

Yet, I really love my M.

Having said that, I don't daily drive my M. I have other cars. If I tried to drive the M every day in all situations, the negatives would outweigh the positives for me.

But on a track or a lonely country (smooth) road, or on an open highway, this thing is almost all pleasure. It's a pure love affair when you're driving it hard. When not, it can be just a noisy, stiff-riding car....which just happens to be quite a "looker".

Yes, I thought about baby Porsches and Jaguar F Types too, but I still need to maximize space for when I take the car on trips, and when I need to carry 3 people. So the M fits into a perfect little niche for me.

And the Porsche, it doesn't look all that wonderful to me unless I load it with mods that carry it well over $100,000. And the Jag? Looks great, but starts in the high 90's for the one I would want, and climbs from there with a few mods.

Again, the M is great, for me, for my purposes. ....but if I had to drive it every day, with that obnoxious cold start, jiggly suspension and all that racket, while just moving along at regular speeds, I would have never bought it.

But that's just me. For all of you that DD your M's where the roads aren't butter smooth... I couldn't do it.

[gprgeorge]

It's a freaking M3 for god sake! They don't like it, drive a buick for 401k miles. I love my M3. I know what I was getting. If you want floaty comfort ride don't buy this car.😄

[leftos]

Admittedly my drive to and from work is on the 101 in the North Bay, and I avoid SF like the plague. I did not enjoy driving the M3 in SF, and I can only assume the car didn't enjoy going over all the potholes and really rough roads either. I don't know whether I would DD it if I actually lived or worked in SF. Would be hard to decide.

I'm just happy I live in Sonoma with Marin and the ocean so close by and countless of back roads that I can enjoy. Car fits perfectly around here and is a joy to drive every day, even if I'm just cruising on the highway.

[1M4]

I would be more concerned if it wasn't tight when I needed it to be . When you buy a car that is purpose built and it doesn't perform when you apply it in that purpose, you have a problem. I will always take any few little issues from a car if it does well what it is designed to do. Sometimes you change as a driver and what you thought was tight handling or ride you might now consider to be rough.In my personal opinion I like knowing whatever spot I am in the M car can get me out .

As for the Camaro comparison I have driven it and didn't like the look of it or the length of the hood when looking over it from the drivers seat.Its interior was typical GM.If I went the GM route I would go CORVETTE STINGRAY if I was under $80,000 on the M4 and I would go COVETTE ZO6 if I was over $80,000 . The COVETTE looks/drives better than the Camaro.

[jpdchicago]

F80 is way more comfortable than my prior M, an e46 vert. Also love the performance and sound with MPE. I use comfort, sport steering and sport + (6MT).

[captainaudio]

Frankly I am surprised at the complaints about the harshness of the M4 suspension and I am not someone who believes that a "real sports car" should have a suspension that shakes the fillings out of your teeth. I was one of the most vocal posters on BMW forums criticizing the harsh ride on my 2007 335i with RFTs and Sport Suspension. I thought that was the most poorly sorted out suspension in any car I ever owned.

A properly sorted out suspension should not be overly stiff or overly soft. If the suspension is too stiff the tires will bounce over bumps and lose contact with the pavement which is not a characteristic of a good handling car. If the suspension is too soft the car will feel floaty, lean excessively on corners, dive while braking and be difficult to control. When that car hit a pothole it felt like the car would break, and sometimes it did break.

I have residences in Manhattan and in the Northwest Corner of Connecticut and do a lot of driving on NYC area roads which are not in great condition. On my 335i I destroyed 7 tires and bent 5 rims and this was after I got rid of the RFTs. When I posted my concerns I usually received posts stating that I did not understand what a sports car was, that I should "Get a Lexus", etc. I eventually installed Koni FSD shocks and did not have further issues.

I have no issues with the harshness of the suspension on my 2015 M4 with adaptive suspension. I have not had a single "Pothole Explosion" and I find the ride to be firm but not harsh or uncomfortable. Given my environment there is no way I would have bought an M4 without adaptive suspension. My car has 18" rims. I passed on the 19s and although the competition package was not available when I bought my car the 20" rims would make me avoid it and in the event I did get it I would probably ditch the 20s. I bought my M4 as a road car (GT car?) and have no illusions of it being a race car, I drive dedicated track cars and they are not something that I would want to drive on the road.

Ironically when I was shopping for the 335 in 2007 Car and Driver praised the suspension.

[KZEVO]

I started losing faith in C&D reporting after experiencing the car myself. It blows me away every time I drive it. I'm always looking for excuses to get back in the car. I drive to work in M2 setting: throttle- sports plus, suspension - sports plus and steering - sport. whem the roads get bad I throw it in comfort. I don't know why they keep bashing the car. It's not perfect but it is darn good. At the track it feels even more amazing. It's a car with two different personalities for the street and at the track. For prospective buyers- go drive the car and experience it for yourself.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by KZEVO

I started losing faith in C&D reporting after experiencing the car myself. It blows me away every time I drive it. I'm always looking for excuses to get back in the car. I drive to work in M2 setting: throttle- sports plus, suspension - sports plus and steering - sport. whem the roads get bad I throw it in comfort. I don't know why they keep bashing the car. It's not perfect but it is darn good. At the track it feels even more amazing. It's a car with two different personalities for the street and at the track. For prospective buyers- go drive the car and experience it for yourself.

They're not completing bashing the car, KZ, they said it has its highlights, especially when driven hard.

But when the car isn't driven like you stole it, and you're just cruising around, it can be bothersome for some of us. Unfortunately, not every road is a race track, so maximizing the settings on every trip doesn't disguise the fact that the car is really built to be driven hard. Hec, for me, if I were to set the car in max sport settings as soon as I start the car, it would just frustrate me even more that I'm not driving like I stole it every moment.

I think what C&D is saying is that for a sedan or coupe that is often billed as a "GT" (unlike a more purpose built sports car Porsche, Vette or Jag F-type), it doesn't do a great job at the Grand Touring part. But it's a helluva car for the track. We all agree to that.

[F82bro]

I went from a Camaro ZL1 to my M4 with no looking back. The ZL1 is a heavier, bigger car with an awesome supercharged V8 (loved the engine). Haven't driven the new Camaro SS which is lighter and likely feels better. Not a fan of the styling of the new Camaro (too much going on) while I love the looks of the M4 - looks great from almost every angle. My only complaint is the turbo lag (really noticeable at times) and the ASD (which I unplugged). Swapped out the stock exhaust for an eisenmann system and it sounds amazing. In terms of Camaro vs M4, I'd say different strokes for different folks. But you have to hand it to Chevy - there's a lot of bang for the buck with the new SS.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

They're not completing bashing the car, KZ, they said it has its highlights, especially when driven hard.

But when the car isn't driven like you stole it, and you're just cruising around, it can be bothersome for some of us. Unfortunately, not every road is a race track, so maximizing the settings on every trip doesn't disguise the fact that the car is really built to be driven hard. Hec, for me, if I were to set the car in max sport settings as soon as I start the car, it would just frustrate me even more that I'm not driving like I stole it every moment.

I think what C&D is saying is that for a sedan or coupe that is often billed as a "GT" (unlike a more purpose built sports car Porsche, Vette or Jag F-type), it doesn't do a great job at the Grand Touring part. But it's a helluva car for the track. We all agree to that.

I don't know how I wound up on the other side of this discussion but I think the M3/4 (at least when equipped with adaptive suspension) is an excellent GT car. Perhaps I was so beat up by my 335i that I am setting the bar low.

I find the car in comfort mode to be very docile. A few months ago I had a Hyundai Excel loaner for a few weeks while my M4 was in the shop recovering from an encounter with a deer. I did not find much of a difference in comfort although there was a significant difference in performance.

If I compare the M4 to other cars I have owned including a Jaguar XKR, a Jaguar XJ8 Sport a Jaguar XJ8 Vanden Plas a Lexus SC300 and a BMW 750Lix I think the M4 compares very favorably in terms of comfort on long trips and it is an order of magnitude better than my 335i E93 Sport was as it came from the factory.

I remember when I had my 335 and I rented some kind of generic Ford compact and drove it down the FDR drive. It was a much more pleasant car to drive on that road than my 335i was.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I don't know how I wound up on the other side of this discussion but I think the M3/4 (at least when equipped with adaptive suspension) is an excellent GT car. Perhaps I was so beat up by my 335i that I am setting the bar low.

....

If I compare the M4 to other cars I have owned including a Jaguar XKR, a Jaguar XJ8 Sport a Jaguar XJ8 Vanden Plas a Lexus SC300 and a BMW 750Lix I think the M4 compares very favorably in terms of comfort on long trips and it is an order of magnitude better than my 335i E93 Sport was as it came from the factory.

I remember when I had my 335 and I rented some kind of generic Ford compact and drove it down the FDR drive. It was a much more pleasant car to drive on that road than my 335i was.

I'm biased, CA. I'm coming from Lexuses and Mazdas. So I'm coming from cars built for comfort and compliance. Even my heavily modded Lexus GS, lowered on coils, with 20" rims, it rides better than my M.

And it's wayyyy smoother.

And my previous Mazda 6 (a manual, by the way ), it was lowered and still rode smoother than my M.

Again, I'm not complaining, because I knew what the M was before I bought it. And I knew how I would use it. So, for me and my wishes, it works well.

But I never thought of this car as being a true GT. I test drove a few Porsches, and even they rode better than the M....just more compliant overall.

No way could I ever say, given my previous car experience, that the M4 was a comfortable GT. Now, I can hack it, because I can accept a lot of punishment...but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who wants a true GT and will never track or drive their car really hard. And I mean REALLY hard. If you're not driving the M really hard occasionally, then it's not worth all the money....I'd recommend other GTs better equipped at occasional, intoxicating 0 to 60 sprints or back road jaunts.

Oh, and by the way, Hyundais and Kias don't have compliant suspensions either...that's the one significant difference between the Korean cars and the Japanese. Now if you were in a Honda Civic or a Mazda 3, then you'd find a significant difference between the ride quality of the M and the small, Japanese cars.