Car & Driver Long-Term M3

[pertierr]

Car and driver has spoken. On my way to trade my M4 for a mazda 3. Who is with me.

[Shanh81]

Originally Posted by pertierr

Car and driver has spoken. On my way to trade my M4 for a mazda 3. Who is with me.

Zoom Zoom!!! lets do it

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by pertierr

Car and driver has spoken. On my way to trade my M4 for a mazda 3. Who is with me.

that is the reason I cannot take anything out of that article seriously.

other than the fact that the interns or whomever works at c and d have decided that the m3 is priced out of their foreseeable future.

people used to think that the m3 was an attainable sports car/sedan.

it is still cheap if you don't tack on the frills.

[s0ul]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I'm 68 and love my M4

I thought you were 28. Damn.

[dhoggm3]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The problem with the suspension is it's rather stiff, but without stellar damping. I don't mind paying the "stiff" penalty if it's for performance, but the adaptive doesn't quite deliver there.

The damping is good, but not great.


Go drive a performance car with the magnetic suspension and see how much better they could do on the M.

THIS. I'm glad I went with the 18" wheels. The F8X ride is fine IMHO and I like it as a cruiser, but the new CTS-V will massacre the F8X in the ride department. Heck, the new Mustang GT 350 might, as well. Magnetic ride is the future.

[JoeFromPA]

So ironically Ham I've asked lots of people about how my sound quality is at and above 70mph, when I feel they've got to be hearing background noise, and unversally people say it's great (iPhone 6). I slow down to 70mph for ME.

On range, I'm sorry to hear your range - that does stink. My consistent range, in my application, is 320 before I refuel. Low would be 280-290 for me. When I've done some significant road trips, I've gotten over 400 miles on the tank before I refueled.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

THIS. I'm glad I went with the 18" wheels. The F8X ride is fine IMHO and I like it as a cruiser, but the new CTS-V will massacre the F8X in the ride department. Heck, the new Mustang GT 350 might, as well. Magnetic ride is the future.

I've been preaching this for a while now.

I had magnetic ride on my Audi TTRS, and there was nothing the public roads could throw at it that would upset the chassis, it was rock solid even mid-corner loaded up and you hit a dip or expansion joint, it just wasn't phased.

Magnetic shocks are just as good as a quality coil-over as far as body/chassis control, just without the adjustability of a coil-over.

With magnetic shocks, the limiting factor is no longer the shock itself, but the algorithm and sensors that they use to tune the shock.

[lan4]

Originally Posted by MChat

This tells you all you need to know about the mindset of the people driving the car and influencing the article...

Great point.

My M3 is my DD. First car I have owned that feels like a street legal racing machine. The cold start noise, the firm ride resulting from solid suframe mounts, razor sharp steering etc. That's what I love about the car!

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

For what it's worth, I've got almost 19k miles on my f80 - most of which was highway accumulated with plenty of 2-4 hour highway trips or 5+ total hours of driving in a day.

First, on the highway, in sport mode, doing 80mph, never using cruise control, and with lots of speed variation - I get 27mpg religiously. When I drop to 70mph and drive more conservatively, I get 28-30mpg religiously without effort. I haven't been able to get above about 31mpg without hypermiling, which I just won't do for anything more than 5 minutes.

My last comparable car was an e39 m5 i owned directly before the f80. It weighed 500 pounds more but was very similar in size - albeit alot more luxurious inside. So that's my benchmark. I also routinely drive my wife's e61 535xit.

The f80 m3 on 18" wheels with ~14k miles on the stock PSS have cabin noise above 75mph and it gets notable above 80mph. There's a very distinct difference in volume between 70mph and 80mph. If I'm on a sensitive teleconference, I drop to 70mph and put it in efficient throttle mode and it's fine.

Is it "noisy?" It's noisier than an f30. It's noisier than an e39 m5. It's noisier than an e61 535xit. It's less noisy than a lifted dodge ram on 35" mudders - by a very substantial amount I might add.

I don't get worn down by the noise but I am aware of it. I'm sure it'd be worse if I had worn out PSS on 19" wheels.

In terms of ride quality, it's sometimes choppy but NEVER jarring. I recently hit some very rough road in sport plus and started to think to myself, "Man, the chassis is really moving around." - not, "Man, my teeth are chattering". Also, sometimes it actually gives a better ride in sport than comfort as it better controls body motions.

My thought is if their ride is jarring something is wrong - either those tires are worn out or they are totally improperly inflated or they've got a suspension issue.

Lastly, I honestly don't know why anyone that is an enthusiast would either combine about driving this MT or choose a GTI or Mazda 3 over this car for a road-trip. If you need a hatcback, I can see choosing one of those - otherwise, the m3 is more enjoyable, gets similar fuel economy on the highway, etc.

...

Last comment: the m3 has a phenomenal reinforced chassis, has a low CoG, and a number of other factors that are going to create more road noise than a given higher vehicle with a more dampened chassis filled with more rubber. But BMW did an amazing job keeping road noise acceptable given the design.

Pretty accurate assessment of the ride in my experience.

Certain types of "rough" roads feel better with MORE damping. There are many occasions that I put the car in sport mode just to keep the chassis from being pushed around so much.

I find the car more comfortable to drive than my 228i and ZHP even though it's stiffer, because the damping is more appropriate and keeps the body calmer and flatter.

[Donger Kim]

My only major complaint is that I feel like the car sits too high, like I'm in a small SUV. For some reason I thought the seating position would be more sporty.

[SROC3]

Not sure what everyone has as a setup here, but I've got Swift Springs and an AwE non-res exhaust - the car is thus stiffer and louder. I daily drive my car and it's great. A monster when I want it to be and a distance cruiser that's perfect for my tastes. I just got back from my first "road trip" to Lake Arrowhead, CA and also drove up to Big Bear for the day. On the long freeway drive up I was toggling between comfort and sport, but primarily cruised in sport. Cabin noise was fine and I just remember being in bliss just cruising in 6th, with the occasional shifts down to 5th and 4th for some overtakes. Vales were closed and open at different times. The ride was great.

When we got to the base of the mountain, this is where the car was used for an entirely different purpose. It was time for some precision driving in this finely tuned instrument. We went up the Rim of the World Highway and the twisties on this are so close to each other that speeds of 35 to 45 were rarely exceeded (save for some short straights near the bottom). I was in sport, sport+, sport+. The car handled amazing. Smooth and easy on all the turns and even doing some trail braking proved very stable and predictable. From Lake Arrowhead I was able to drive my buddy's A8 and we went over to big bear for the day. 23 miles of twisties each way. Great car btw. Even smoother driving but you could feel the difference in its nimbleness. I drove the exact same roads the next day in the M4 and it was amazing. The M4, despite being more viceral, was just the clear win for the driving experience. Even better was the drive back down the mountain. Less braking and I was just timing my shifts between 2nd and 3rd (6mt) pretty much all the way. Wow.

Today I was back in the "real-world" and drove up to a neighboring suburb to meet some friends to see Star Wars. Drove up in sunny weather and when I left the theater it was pouring rain. Sport, sport, sport modes, city street driving. Rowing my gears, had Spotify on, toggling between my apple playlists. Heads-up display on, checked the weather on BMW Online....Man, I love my M4. Best BMW I have owned thus far. Talk about a great, all around automobile.

[drjoe66]

The M3 is my daily driver, just like the E90 M3 was before. I thought the E90 was much stiffer than the F80. Now I agree that the F80 has many rattles, whines, and other sounds that the E90 never had.

[stressdoc]

I have 21.3k miles on mine, albeit mostly easy highway miles.
"Bone-jarring ride" ? Seriously? What kind of wimps are working at C&D these days. I find the ride firm but comfortable. I have adaptive and love it.

No rattles. Rock solid. Much better than my 335 and 323.

No sound problems starting up. I disconnected the amp.

Great car.

Originally Posted by fernande-bmw

The referred article can be found here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review.

I have driven a 3 series as a daily driver since 2004. I am in my third one now (325i -> 330i Sport -> 335i M), and I am considering upgrading to an M3 in 2016. Based of the reviews I have read so far, this M3 generation seems to be the best so far. So, I am very excited. However, this article caught me surprise and kind of put a funk in my mood.

You have to take everything with a grain of salt, but they have very harsh comments.

I have seen videos demonstrating how loud the car is when starting from cold. Is it really that obnoxious that would drive you to hate the car?

I assume the suspension is stiffer given than it is more of a sports car. However, is the ride really that much harsher than the 3 Series?

The article also mentions a lot of annoying noises with the car that they have taken it to the dealer several times to rectify, and still are not satisfied.

They make it sound like the M3 is an overpriced piece of junk. Even the comments at the bottom of the article seem to agree.

What are people experiences of the M3 as a daily driver compared to the 3 series?

Thanks!

[deemo319]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Personally, I think these mags are foolish with reporting why you get a high performing sports car it will make noise. My M4 in my opinion has less noise than my last M5 F10, and I just take noise apart of the car quirkyness. If they don't want noise test a cushy Camry or Lexus .......when you pull out weight and sound material you will hear noise.

As to the start up my GT3 rattled the walls on a cold start so did the M5. Hell is over in 20 seconds so not sure of the reference. I find none of the comments to be from my ownership perspective, but could happen. I would also not by carbon brakes for a DD just because they look cool just my two cents. Enjoy your cars boys.

^ Pretty much what he said.

[Diver]

I read this entire thread and now am completely confused. Perhaps the message is you can't trust automotive journalists. When the M3/M4 were released most of the test cars had the adaptive suspension and testers raved about how comfortable it was in the tour mode. So, who is the liar?

There are similar comments about other cars. A Mustang GT with its performance package was said by Edmunds in a long term test to have a ride that was too harsh. In a Mustang vs Camaro 6 test (different publication) they said the Camaro had a harsher ride on the highway than the Mustang. So that is harsher than too harsh. The Camaro did not have the magnetic suspension. No other test reports reported any complaints about ride quality for either. Who is the liar?

My 135i got rather harsh as the run flats wore out. A set of PSS with the front tire one size larger fixed it and took the steering a bit closer to neutral.

Even for those with 5 track days a year, there are 360 days of normal driving. I suppose everyone has their own pain threshold.

[G8rGrl]

Originally Posted by Diver

I read this entire thread and now am completely confused. Perhaps the message is you can't trust automotive journalists. When the M3/M4 were released most of the test cars had the adaptive suspension and testers raved about how comfortable it was in the tour mode. So, who is the liar?

There are similar comments about other cars. A Mustang GT with its performance package was said by Edmunds in a long term test to have a ride that was too harsh. In a Mustang vs Camaro 6 test (different publication) they said the Camaro had a harsher ride on the highway than the Mustang. So that is harsher than too harsh. The Camaro did not have the magnetic suspension. No other test reports reported any complaints about ride quality for either. Who is the liar?

My 135i got rather harsh as the run flats wore out. A set of PSS with the front tire one size larger fixed it and took the steering a bit closer to neutral.

Even for those with 5 track days a year, there are 360 days of normal driving. I suppose everyone has their own pain threshold.

I think it could be that the short-term road tests reveal the basics about the car and the long term road tests allow enough time for the journalists to get "tired" of certain aspects of a car.

[JoeFromPA]

I'm going to go read the article but I'll posit ahead of time that we don't know the condition of the tires. Worn out PSS on 19" tires + cold weather + bad michigan roads might really yield a loud and unpleasant ride that those of us riding on not worn out tires, warmer weather, and decent roads don't deal with. IDK

[dhoggm3]

I don't recognize the car they are describing, except for the cold start noise.

[Spied4US]

The August issue of C&D has a 3-page discussion of the editors' experiences with an M3 they drove for 40k miles over 17 months. (The online version can be found here: (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rm-test-review.) The print version (which I can't link) was very critical of the car.

For example, regarding the M3's suspension, C&D wrote: "Even set to comfort, the M3 [suspension] has the compliance of a race car. It pounds heavily over cracked pavement and freeway expansion joints, magnifying every imperfection in the road. We'd swear the chassis even gets jostled by painted lane markers and the shadows of telephone poles. And the ride got worse as the miles piled up. 'The more I drive this as it gets older, the more I dislike how much it crashes over bumps,' wrote the copy editor Jennifer Harrington after a return from a road trip."

The editors also complained repeatedly in the article about the problems they experienced with the exhaust system, creaks and groans from the chassis, and an unsolved front suspension vibration "of some sort" that went undiagnosed. Ultimately, the editors concluded the car was best suited for a track use but little else.

This article is the only one I'm aware of that was so critical of the M3, and very much at odds with what I've read here. Are they wrong? Deliberately exaggerating? (Joe, you out there?)

[dgp]

Was it a MY15?

[Alpine300zhp]

It sounds like the reviewers over at C&D were expecting the M3 to ride like a 550i. It also sounds like they have no clue what a real sports sedan rides like and they would never buy such a car anyway. So, how is their opinion relevant? I have owned MANY M cars and I can tell you that the F80/82 rides way better than the older models.

[Sassicaia]

If he had it 17 months it would have to be MY15. Wonder what software was on it, and if they ever did an update. I certainly don't experience feeling the bumps in the road like he describes. Seems over dramatic.