Global Motoring Group's KRATOS S55 Turbo Systems Achieve 975WHP!

[Sales@KRATOS]

It is with great pride that we announce the latest results of the KRAS55Bi, our launch platform for the KRATOS brand. In November 2018, we released stock motor results and were very happy with the overwhelmingly positive feedback received.

This post is meant to update all of the customers who have shown interest in the KRAS55 line of turbos and direct new eyes to our product press release initially posted in November. In addition, we aim to help the enthusiast better understand the S55 platform.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1557398

Brand:

KRATOS came into conception through a group of engineers with 25+ years of private label design and manufacturing turbo systems for various house-hold name performance brands. These engineers saw an untouched segment in the high end European market for True OEM Style Dual Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbo System Manufacturing and through that revelation the KRATOS brand was born.

KRATOS systems are forged from the finest raw materials and assembled with strenuous attention to detail. Every component is purposefully designed and engineered-in-house and tested to extreme standards. KRATOS is The Only True Dual Ceramic Ball Bearing OEM Fit CORE-LESS Turbo System Manufacturer.


Power:

List Of Modifications:

• Built Engine Stock Bore/Compression (CP Pistons/Carrillo Rods)
• Headgames Motorworks Cylinder Head (Please Contact Headgames For Details)
• ASR Engineering Intercooler
• ASR Engineering Heat Exchanger
• Intakes
• Catless Downpipes
• Dodson Sportsman Plus DCT Clutch Kit
• Fuel-It PI
• Stock Intake Manifold
• Stock MAP Sensor
• Maximum PSI Crank Hub Kit
• BootMod3
• HCP Custom Tune
• KRAS55Bi Turbo System (Standard Billet Wheel Option)
• Pump Gas E85 (78% Via Fuel-It Sensor)

975WHP

This Dyno Graph depicts the preliminary capabilities of the KRAS55Bi on a built engine BMW S55 with supporting modifications as listed above at 35psi on Pump E85 Fuel (E78 Via Fuel-It Sensor). These results are preliminary; the motor has just been completed and much testing/tuning is left to do. This dyno graph clearly proves the power and flow capabilities still left on the table for the KRAS55Bi as the powerband continues to climb to the rev limiter as well as how flat and wide the torque band is. These results are indicative of the combination of our compressor wheel, turbine wheel, and manifold A/R Ratio design. The cylinder head from Headgames Motorworks only further proves the KRAS55Bi's capabilities by overcoming the limitations of the factory cylinder head/valvetrain allowing the turbo system to shine.

Note: This 975whp dyno is shown with vehicle speed instead of rpm on the x-axis due to a signal loss during the run file. The 970whp run listed below is with rpm on the x-axis which clearly shows the run being cut early as a result of the signal loss.

970WHP

This Dyno Graph depicts the massive difference in power*and torque output of the KRAS55Bi on a built engine vs. a full bolt on BM3 tune stock turbo on E30. Notice at approximately 7300rpm there is a difference of*479whp and 356wtq*between the stock turbos and the KRAS55Bi's.*These figures are used for reference only, but they do give the end user an idea as to the difference of power and torque that can be achieved when upgrading from a stock OEM turbo system on E30 to a KRAS55Bi on Pump E85 with built engine.

KRAS55Bi installed with included KRAS55 Turbo Inlets

Results & Significance:

The KRATOS brand has maintained focus on never sacrificing drivability and reliability for the sake of power output. There is a common misconception that you must sacrifice one to achieve the other, this is often the mindset of those who opt to outfit their vehicles with large custom single turbo or large custom twin turbo kits.

KRATOS offers large single turbo peak power with OEM twin turbo drivability and increased reliability.

These turbos are versatile enough to produce drag car power, while providing road course powerband, in a reliable daily drivable package.

The KRAS55 line is a complete solution and can effectively be used to power your drag car, road course car, or daily driver and ideally meeting all of the requirements of a turbo system for each application

The engineering team at KRATOS has over 25 years of experience in turbo design and manufacturing. Rather than taking a universal turbocharger and custom designing a system around it, KRATOS has the ability and expertise to utilize the latest and most modern tools and techniques the turbocharging industry has to offer. This allows us the ability to develop vehicle specific turbo system that offer increased reliability with stock style drivability at horsepower levels that meet or exceed custom single turbo or large twin turbo kits. The notion that custom large single turbo or large twin turbos are required to produce high output figures is now a moot point. Customers no longer have to sacrifice stock style twin turbo drivability producing less than stock horsepower below 4K rpm with custom single or large twin turbo kits.

“975whp on a system rated for 850whp?”

KRATOS never rates systems at maximum capacity but rates systems at a conservative figure of approximately 85% of maximum output capacity within the confines of the factory MAP sensor for the KRAS55. That being said, these dyno figures show the flow capabilities and potential of the KRAS55Bi with readily available off the shelf parts that any S55 owner has the potential to replicate without having to upgrade to a larger 5 bar MAP Sensor.

Transparency is a major part of the KRATOS business model. That being said, there is no secret recipe required to achieve these type of results. Anyone can achieve these figures with off the shelf parts as listed above. This is an example of our extended efforts to maintain the utmost transparency with our customers and not mislead them to unrealistic expectations. As the old adage goes, it is always better to under promise and over deliver than over promise and under deliver.

Availability

At time of publishing, all non-manifold components of the KRAS55 line are completed and ready for assembly. Final machining of the manifolds is scheduled to be completed before the close of this month.

To those who have been following the developments of the KRAS55 line, we are happy to inform that these dates will be final and turbos will be shipping in early March to customers.

Pre-orders:


Pre-orders will consist of a $500 refundable deposit meant to signal intent of purchase. Please contact a representative at info@asrkratos.com for more information regarding pre-ordering a KRAS55Bi system.

[chetrickerman]

Wow that is outstanding!

The KRAS55TI can legit challenge for the f80/f82 whp record!

[Halim@HCP]

Hell yeah!

[tom @ eas]

Looking forward to seeing a set of these strapped to our dyno.

[em3atl]

Can't wait to receive my titanium set and let F80Paul have at it!

Amazing results!

[whoop_ass]

Great work HCP and ASR Kratos
this is mega and well done, these turbos truly do flow very well
500whp difference at 7k

in for a set to see how they handle at high altitude

am i being cheeky requesting a log..

[gman_newyork]

First off this is not an attempt to thread jack.

Ok I hope I don't get bashed for this but the list of supporting modifications for this application are NOT optional and in my opinion they are still missing upgraded driveshaft and rear axles. So why does any of this matter? Well in order to take full advantage of the turbos capabilities you will spend another $20k+ in parts plus labor in the range of 120-160 hours. So how do I know this? I am doing an almost identical build and the weak point of these cars are numerous at this power level.

Please notice the original post of 813whp had a tiny amount of torque compared to whp. Why is that well stock internals cannot handle much over 675 lb/ft of torque before going boom. Not to mention valve float issues at anything over 32 PSI. Hence the new post with a newly built motor and supporting mods.

If you have goals for pushing this kind of power please note that there is not a bolt on turbo kit on the market that can achieve these numbers without numerous expensive supporting mods, built motor and head.

Here is my build which I will post as a separate thread once the motor gets pulled in March.

My Parts:
Built Engine Stock Bore/Compression (Wiseco Pistons/PauterRods)
Headgames Motorworks Cylinder Head - full port with valves, springs and aftermarket head bolts
Forced Induction Interchiller
Stock Intakes
Catless Downpipes
SSP Spec R DCT Clutch Kit
Fuel-It Stage 4 PI with AIC6 controller and bluetooth ethanol sensor
Stock Intake Manifold
Stock MAP Sensor
Maximum PSI Crank Hub Fix
BootMod3
PJT Custom E85 Tune
Pure Stage 2+ turbos
DSS rear axles
DSS driveshaft

Total in parts WITHOUT turbos, labor and dyno tuning $24k. I have receipts to back this up but if you take the time to look up each of these parts you will see I am just being upfront and honest about the parts cost.

I hope this helps sheds some light on the REQUIRED not optional modifications needed to put down these kind of whp numbers regardless of the turbos you may choose.

I am personally excited to see what Kratos can do and how they hold up long term. Amazing build and incredible numbers.

[ntg44]

That torque curve is beautiful. I'd get these just to have that curve on my car, just not with nearly the power this thing makes. Great job guys.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

Wow that is outstanding!

The KRAS55TI can legit challenge for the f80/f82 whp record!

We appreciate the support! Even though the heat and humidity in our region is clearly not on our side, our KRAS55Bi still has quite a bit of room left in it as the dyno suggests. These are preliminary figures as we will continue to finalize the tuning process in the coming days. Of course our KRAS55Ti will surpass the output of our KRAS55Bi without issue though.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Looking forward to seeing a set of these strapped to our dyno.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by whoop_ass

Great work HCP and ASR Kratos
this is mega and well done, these turbos truly do flow very well
500whp difference at 7k

in for a set to see how they handle at high altitude

am i being cheeky requesting a log..

We appreciate the positive feedback! Attached is a log of the 975whp run showing peak boost at maximum power output. You'll notice that trims and afr in both banks are very rich for E85 as compared to the target due to a PI issue we were working out. That has since been resolved so we'll be going back on the dyno for further tuning and should be able to produce a higher output once the value are back on target.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

First off this is not an attempt to thread jack.

Ok I hope I don't get bashed for this but the list of supporting modifications for this application are NOT optional and in my opinion they are still missing upgraded driveshaft and rear axles. So why does any of this matter? Well in order to take full advantage of the turbos capabilities you will spend another $20k+ in parts plus labor in the range of 120-160 hours. So how do I know this? I am doing an almost identical build and the weak point of these cars are numerous at this power level.

Please notice the original post of 813whp had a tiny amount of torque compared to whp. Why is that well stock internals cannot handle much over 675 lb/ft of torque before going boom. Not to mention valve float issues at anything over 32 PSI. Hence the new post with a newly built motor and supporting mods.

If you have goals for pushing this kind of power please note that there is not a bolt on turbo kit on the market that can achieve these numbers without numerous expensive supporting mods, built motor and head.

Here is my build which I will post as a separate thread once the motor gets pulled in March.

My Parts:
Built Engine Stock Bore/Compression (Wiseco Pistons/PauterRods)
Headgames Motorworks Cylinder Head - full port with valves, springs and aftermarket head bolts
Forced Induction Interchiller
Stock Intakes
Catless Downpipes
SSP Spec R DCT Clutch Kit
Fuel-It Stage 4 PI with AIC6 controller and bluetooth ethanol sensor
Stock Intake Manifold
Stock MAP Sensor
Maximum PSI Crank Hub Fix
BootMod3
PJT Custom E85 Tune
Pure Stage 2+ turbos
DSS rear axles
DSS driveshaft

Total in parts WITHOUT turbos, labor and dyno tuning $24k. I have receipts to back this up but if you take the time to look up each of these parts you will see I am just being upfront and honest about the parts cost.

I hope this helps sheds some light on the REQUIRED not optional modifications needed to put down these kind of whp numbers regardless of the turbos you may choose.

I am personally excited to see what Kratos can do and how they hold up long term. Amazing build and incredible numbers.

We don't feel you're high jacking the thread as these are all valid points that you bring up. However, the list of modifications that we posted were never stated to be optional and are required as we've stated in our press releases. Most anyone with an S55 attempting this type of power output should be familiar enough on the subject to understand what goes into doing a build like this, and if they aren't we encourage them to contact us directly for support or put fourth the effort in to doing the research as as you have since it would be well worth it to them in the long run. We agree that it's not cheap to do a build like this, so putting in the extra effort and being well informed beforehand would be highly suggested and well worth it.

[guess2098]

Do I have to use your tune or any tuner (Cary in my case) can tune with your turbo.

Also if I am not interested on e85, just pump gas 91, what you think about the psi and hp output

Thanks

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by guess2098

Do I have to use your tune or any tuner (Cary in my case) can tune with your turbo.

Also if I am not interested on e85, just pump gas 91, what you think about the psi and hp output

Thanks

Although, it isn't required to use Halim@HCP for your custom tune we do highly recommend it. Our in house tuner has over 25 years experience in HEX tuning as well as stand alone systems. Based on his recommendation and after extensive conversations with Dzenno at BM3 is why we chose to work with Halim, not to mention that he designs all of BM3's maps. Also, we have several beta test cars that have had our KRAS55Bi's installed on stock engines without fail for close to 2 years on Halim's tunes. Halim is currently in the process of installing our KRAS55's on his personal car and has been working with our engineers and in house tuner since the conception of our KRAS55 turbo systems. If you're looking to run pump gas only, Halim has extensive tuning knowledge and understanding of timing control as it relates to boost and limiting EGT's for pump gas and long term reliability.

The pump gas tune we did with Halim for our stock engine S55 is only running 24-25psi peak with a taper to 22psi. The boost is tapered by design due to octane limits as well as the need to produce repeatable power on the street without high egt's. We don't recommend trying to use the shelf stock turbo upgrade BM3 pump gas tunes as our turbos will produce too much boost at the same boost duty cycle which is not a good thing. This is also why we are working on having BM3 and Halim@HCP create shelf stock files for our KRAS55 line of turbos.

[gman_newyork]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

We don't feel your high jacking the thread as these are all valid points that you bring up. However, the list of modifications that we posted were never stated to be optional and are required as we've stated in our press releases. Most anyone with an S55 attempting this type of power output should be familiar enough on the subject to understand what goes into doing a build like this, and if they aren't we encourage them to contact us directly for support or put fourth the effort in to doing the research as as you have since it would be well worth it to them in the long run. We agree that it's not cheap to do a build like this, so putting in the extra effort and being well informed beforehand would be highly suggested and well worth it.

Never meant to imply that Kratos wasn't being straight forward with their modifications or that Kratos said modifications were optional so if I did I do apologize. Unfortunately a lot of people see those big numbers and think wow a new turbo kit will get me 800+whp. My goal was to inform those people and not reflect negatively on Kratos. Personally what you have done on this platform is absolutely amazing and I'm sure with some tuning tweaks you will have the first twin turbo S55 over 1,000whp. That's almost unreal considering this platform is technically still relatively new. Congratulations and wish you the best.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by gman_newyork

Never meant to imply that Kratos wasn't being straight forward with their modifications or that they were optional so if I did I do apologize. Unfortunately a lot of people see those big numbers and think wow a new turbo kit will get me 800+whp. My goal was to inform those people and not reflect negatively on Kratos. Personally what you have done on this platform is absolutely amazing and I'm sure with some tuning tweaks you will have the first bi-turbo S55 over 1,000whp. That's almost unreal considering this platform is technically still relatively new. Congratulations and wish you the best.

No apologies necessary, we know your intention was to inform and educate those that are less informed. We just wanted to reiterate that we agreed with your position. Thank you for the positive feedback and we appreciate the support!

[TR930]

Got quoted $3500 for install at my dealership for turbos. That plus these is a pretty good deal for 2-300 more horsepower. Hell, I paid a small fortune for Dinan Stage 3 , this seems like a bargain.

[Commanderwiggin]

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

This is also why we are working on having BM3 and Halim@HCP create shelf stock files for our KRAS55 line of turbos.

A request if the opportunity comes up:

- Dyno of specific "track based" maps. An idea would be say a 500tq flat torque specific map. The goal would be to keep the boost PID from overshooting during spool and holding 500tq throughout the whole powerband (or as much as possible). You could even have this concept modified to provide several different levels or stages of a flat torque design so that one could elevate over time. 500-600flat torque range per say as an example and perhaps fine tune a few different modes of PID which could be selected in the BM3 software for user selection like 3 different modes which would offer a slightly different dynamic that could be modified at the track to the users preference(similar to how the BM3 can select type of burble, exhaust flaps, etc...) This would also entice users to run these more efficient turbos on a non-built motor and step them up in a controlled manner as they progress to the next level of mods. My personal opinion is that these turbos will not stress the engine nearly as much as the stock turbines currently do...especially when compared to the pure turbo offerings which must have a crazy high exhaust backpressure by comparison.

I understand the %reduction per gear is similar to the request above however with the concept above I believe it would be better on tip-in and transient responses to have the PID and mapping honed for each specifically.

People who have never driven a 1000rwhp car ask me all the time how I can get traction and "it must be a handful". In all honesty in some ways it's much easier to control than the S55 power delivery since the low end torque wants to break traction so quickly where-as a flat torque curve makes things very predictable and controllable. I also have a standalone with a pretty decent traction control setup but really all that's needed is good boost by gear settings and flat torque engine mapping. These turbos which will hold that level of torque near to redline look to be very functional for this goal.

[whoop_ass]

Originally Posted by guess2098

Do I have to use your tune or any tuner (Cary in my case) can tune with your turbo.

Also if I am not interested on e85, just pump gas 91, what you think about the psi and hp output

Thanks

Why would you want to use a different tuner than the current one that has done tons of development on this turbo.
Just on experience on knowing the turbo should steer you towards the tuner that has first hand experience with the product instead of starting fresh!

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

We appreciate the positive feedback! Attached is a log of the 975whp run showing peak boost at maximum power output. You'll notice that trims and afr in both banks are very rich for E85 as compared to the target due to a PI issue we were working out. That has since been resolved so we'll be going back on the dyno for further tuning and should be able to produce a higher output once the value are back on target.

Thanks so much for this, and DAMN!!
these turbo flow, 35PSI with 87% WGDC at 7400rpm
Timing look supper clean as well and my oh my watch another 50-60 whp easy but leaning out the AFR's, I know Halim is keeping things safe but that is Rather rich and conservative

look forward to your upcoming results.
once again good work on the product, Brilliant results and final tuning still not Finished

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by TR930

Got quoted $3500 for install at my dealership for turbos. That plus these is a pretty good deal for 2-300 more horsepower. Hell, I paid a small fortune for Dinan Stage 3 , this seems like a bargain.

The quote you got from the dealer is pretty high considering the whole job takes anywhere from 10-12 hours depending on how experienced the shop is. That being said, you should be paying around half that price even if the shop is charging a rate of $150/hr. Send us a pm and we can get you situated with one of our vendors in the area for a better rate.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

A request if the opportunity comes up:

- Dyno of specific "track based" maps. An idea would be say a 500tq flat torque specific map. The goal would be to keep the boost PID from overshooting during spool and holding 500tq throughout the whole powerband (or as much as possible). You could even have this concept modified to provide several different levels or stages of a flat torque design so that one could elevate over time. 500-600flat torque range per say as an example and perhaps fine tune a few different modes of PID which could be selected in the BM3 software for user selection like 3 different modes which would offer a slightly different dynamic that could be modified at the track to the users preference(similar to how the BM3 can select type of burble, exhaust flaps, etc...) This would also entice users to run these more efficient turbos on a non-built motor and step them up in a controlled manner as they progress to the next level of mods. My personal opinion is that these turbos will not stress the engine nearly as much as the stock turbines currently do...especially when compared to the pure turbo offerings which must have a crazy high exhaust backpressure by comparison.

I understand the %reduction per gear is similar to the request above however with the concept above I believe it would be better on tip-in and transient responses to have the PID and mapping honed for each specifically.

People who have never driven a 1000rwhp car ask me all the time how I can get traction and "it must be a handful". In all honesty in some ways it's much easier to control than the S55 power delivery since the low end torque wants to break traction so quickly where-as a flat torque curve makes things very predictable and controllable. I also have a standalone with a pretty decent traction control setup but really all that's needed is good boost by gear settings and flat torque engine mapping. These turbos which will hold that level of torque near to redline look to be very functional for this goal.

We will take this information and forward it to BM3 and HCP.

[Sales@KRATOS]

Originally Posted by whoop_ass

Why would you want to use a different tuner than the current one that has done tons of development on this turbo.
Just on experience on knowing the turbo should steer you towards the tuner that has first hand experience with the product instead of starting fresh!




Thanks so much for this, and DAMN!!
these turbo flow, 35PSI with 87% WGDC at 7400rpm
Timing look supper clean as well and my oh my watch another 50-60 whp easy but leaning out the AFR's, I know Halim is keeping things safe but that is Rather rich and conservative

look forward to your upcoming results.
once again good work on the product, Brilliant results and final tuning still not Finished

We just wanted to clarify that the afr was rich due to over fueling issues we were running into with PI, not Halim's tune as his target afr in the tune is higher for E85 as shown in the log posted. Those issues have since been resolved and we should easily pickup a good amount of power with the correct afr once back on the dyno. Thanks again for the support!