Obligatory Comparison: M4 GTS vs. 718 GT4

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by 786

you didn't mention the 991.1 GT3, why did you move on from that to a GTS and can you give some thoughts on the comparison between those two?

the GT3 was a bit numb to drive on the street. again you needed to be above 5000 rpm to be in a "fun" part of the powerband, but you are also at stupid illegal speeds.

as a track car, it's dominance is undeniable, better than the GTS.

the GTS was just more entertaining and challenging both on the street and on track.

but it was also a financial decision, i had a custom camper van coming and wanted to unload some debt burden.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

the GTS was just more entertaining and challenging both on the street and on track.

GTS has yet to get its just due for pure entertainment value. Might be the most entertaining car I've ever driven in anger.

Believe it will go down as M's most insane creation. The one that shouldn't have gotten by legal. M's 996 GT2.

[786]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

GTS has yet to get its just due for pure entertainment value. Might be the most entertaining car I've ever driven in anger.

Believe it will go down as M's most insane creation. The one that shouldn't have gotten by legal. M's 996 GT2.

This is exactly what I'm looking for. My previous 997TT was not entertaining at all. Fast sure, but no fun.

996 GT2 comparison is exciting as I'm buying sight unseen having never driven one of these (or even a regular M4 iirc).

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by 786

This is exactly what I'm looking for. My previous 997TT was not entertaining at all. Fast sure, but no fun.

996 GT2 comparison is exciting as I'm buying sight unseen having never driven one of these (or even a regular M4 iirc).

That's awesome. look forward to your impressions as a newcomer to the platform.

[786]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

That's awesome. look forward to your impressions as a newcomer to the platform.

So some impressions 2 days in lol:

• You were right, 996 GT2 comparison was spot on. It's got this blend of civility and savagery I have not encountered very often. I absolutely love it.
• VERY entertaining at slow (legal) speeds, mini slides everywhere to catch. Very intuitive and easy to catch as well. Nothing scary or unexpected. It feels totally natural to drive.
• I have used part throttle for the most part, only matted it once I think. It felt unhinged for a sec haha. Will need to work my way into the throttle as the ass is very mobile
• It's beautiful inside and out, a quality item. Everything you look at or touch is pleasing. So many lovely details. It's a true connoisseurs car.
• Mine still smells new and I love the smell haha, all the alcantara surfaces feel amazing. Love the fat steering wheel, maybe ill keep it and not get the shift light one.
• Suspension feels very high dollar, and soaks up the worst roads with aplomb. I'm not as scared to street drive it as I thought I would be. My wife even commented how nice and soft/luxurious the suspension felt. And I still have adjusting to do here so this bodes very well. I'm gonna raise it as much as I can and adjust to Public Road/Nurburgring settings per the supplementary manual. I'm also not sure if I should remove the lower splitter now as it didn't scrape anywhere?
• It's just a gem of a car, I usually don't gush this much about anything lol. When I got my 911 Turbo, Z06 etc. I wasn't this pleased. Those cars are long gone for a reason, this will stay.
• I have neighbors with fancy cars, they were all out ooo-ing and ahh-ing over the GTS. No one had heard of it, love the exclusivity.
• Sounds awesome! So much better than other F8X M's i've heard before (sorry to those guys). The cracks and bangs are fun, everything about this car is fun.
• Brakes are faultless in street driving, don't think they'll break a sweat for my usage. Feel just as strong or stronger than the Porsche GT cars i've tried.
• Need to read the manual, don't know how to put it in Park even lol. Don't know how to use sport modes etc. How do you put it in Park with the motor running? I'm not into changing a bunch of settings every time I get in the car. Can I just set everything to M1 and forget it? Are the M1/2 modes already setup a certain way? Lots to discover.

I'll drive more and think about it, but this car has an X factor I've been looking for a long time and not found. I have gone through a lot of cars in the interim and was never happy. I finally feel happy. The 3k miles on the clock will change quick!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 786

So some impressions 2 days in lol:

• You were right, 996 GT2 comparison was spot on. It's got this blend of civility and savagery I have not encountered very often. I absolutely love it.
• VERY entertaining at slow (legal) speeds, mini slides everywhere to catch. Very intuitive and easy to catch as well. Nothing scary or unexpected. It feels totally natural to drive.
• I have used part throttle for the most part, only matted it once I think. It felt unhinged for a sec haha. Will need to work my way into the throttle as the ass is very mobile
• It's beautiful inside and out, a quality item. Everything you look at or touch is pleasing. So many lovely details. It's a true connoisseurs car.
• Mine still smells new and I love the smell haha, all the alcantara surfaces feel amazing. Love the fat steering wheel, maybe ill keep it and not get the shift light one.
• Suspension feels very high dollar, and soaks up the worst roads with aplomb. I'm not as scared to street drive it as I thought I would be. My wife even commented how nice and soft/luxurious the suspension felt. And I still have adjusting to do here so this bodes very well. I'm gonna raise it as much as I can and adjust to Public Road/Nurburgring settings per the supplementary manual. I'm also not sure if I should remove the lower splitter now as it didn't scrape anywhere?
• It's just a gem of a car, I usually don't gush this much about anything lol. When I got my 911 Turbo, Z06 etc. I wasn't this pleased. Those cars are long gone for a reason, this will stay.
• I have neighbors with fancy cars, they were all out ooo-ing and ahh-ing over the GTS. No one had heard of it, love the exclusivity.
• Sounds awesome! So much better than other F8X M's i've heard before (sorry to those guys). The cracks and bangs are fun, everything about this car is fun.
• Brakes are faultless in street driving, don't think they'll break a sweat for my usage. Feel just as strong or stronger than the Porsche GT cars i've tried.
• Need to read the manual, don't know how to put it in Park even lol. Don't know how to use sport modes etc. How do you put it in Park with the motor running? I'm not into changing a bunch of settings every time I get in the car. Can I just set everything to M1 and forget it? Are the M1/2 modes already setup a certain way? Lots to discover.

I'll drive more and think about it, but this car has an X factor I've been looking for a long time and not found. I have gone through a lot of cars in the interim and was never happy. I finally feel happy. The 3k miles on the clock will change quick!

You seem to be enjoying it a lot, that's great!

I don't know how to put it in park with the engine on, like after a drive. I did find out eventually that it has to be in a gear when you turn it off so it goes to park.

You can set M1 and M2 to whatever you want. I think the idea behind the two different M buttons is so that one is your every day settings (steering comfort, throttle efficient, regular DSC) and then another one is your mountain road settings (same but with MDM for DSC)

[4play]

Originally Posted by 786

So some impressions 2 days in lol:

• You were right, 996 GT2 comparison was spot on. It's got this blend of civility and savagery I have not encountered very often. I absolutely love it.
• VERY entertaining at slow (legal) speeds, mini slides everywhere to catch. Very intuitive and easy to catch as well. Nothing scary or unexpected. It feels totally natural to drive.
• I have used part throttle for the most part, only matted it once I think. It felt unhinged for a sec haha. Will need to work my way into the throttle as the ass is very mobile
• It's beautiful inside and out, a quality item. Everything you look at or touch is pleasing. So many lovely details. It's a true connoisseurs car.
• Mine still smells new and I love the smell haha, all the alcantara surfaces feel amazing. Love the fat steering wheel, maybe ill keep it and not get the shift light one.
• Suspension feels very high dollar, and soaks up the worst roads with aplomb. I'm not as scared to street drive it as I thought I would be. My wife even commented how nice and soft/luxurious the suspension felt. And I still have adjusting to do here so this bodes very well. I'm gonna raise it as much as I can and adjust to Public Road/Nurburgring settings per the supplementary manual. I'm also not sure if I should remove the lower splitter now as it didn't scrape anywhere?
• It's just a gem of a car, I usually don't gush this much about anything lol. When I got my 911 Turbo, Z06 etc. I wasn't this pleased. Those cars are long gone for a reason, this will stay.
• I have neighbors with fancy cars, they were all out ooo-ing and ahh-ing over the GTS. No one had heard of it, love the exclusivity.
• Sounds awesome! So much better than other F8X M's i've heard before (sorry to those guys). The cracks and bangs are fun, everything about this car is fun.
• Brakes are faultless in street driving, don't think they'll break a sweat for my usage. Feel just as strong or stronger than the Porsche GT cars i've tried.
• Need to read the manual, don't know how to put it in Park even lol. Don't know how to use sport modes etc. How do you put it in Park with the motor running? I'm not into changing a bunch of settings every time I get in the car. Can I just set everything to M1 and forget it? Are the M1/2 modes already setup a certain way? Lots to discover.

I'll drive more and think about it, but this car has an X factor I've been looking for a long time and not found. I have gone through a lot of cars in the interim and was never happy. I finally feel happy. The 3k miles on the clock will change quick!

You can set up M1 and M2 in the iDrive menus. I have M1 (M Dynamic Mode, Sport Plus drivetrain, Sport steering, fastest shift speed) for canyon/mountain passes and M2 (Sport Plus drivetrain, Sport steering, middle shift speed) for around town.

Car has to be in R or D - when you press the start/stop button, it automatically drops into park. You can't actually "set" it in park without turning the car off.

[786]

Thanks guys, ill have to play around with the menus when i get some time and see what my car's M1/2 settings are. I thought they were pre-determined for some reason, good you can customize.

Interesting note on the inability to set in park, i put in N and pulled the handbrake when i had to stop so i guess that's the solution. Me and the shipping guy were really confused initially lol. Still learning so im sure will all become second nature soon.

[Secret Chimp]

Originally Posted by 786

So some impressions 2 days in lol:

• ...
  
• Suspension feels very high dollar, and soaks up the worst roads with aplomb. I'm not as scared to street drive it as I thought I would be. My wife even commented how nice and soft/luxurious the suspension felt. And I still have adjusting to do here so this bodes very well. I'm gonna raise it as much as I can and adjust to Public Road/Nurburgring settings per the supplementary manual. I'm also not sure if I should remove the lower splitter now as it didn't scrape anywhere?
  
• Need to read the manual, don't know how to put it in Park even lol. Don't know how to use sport modes etc. How do you put it in Park with the motor running? I'm not into changing a bunch of settings every time I get in the car. Can I just set everything to M1 and forget it? Are the M1/2 modes already setup a certain way? Lots to discover.

Based on your wife's description of the suspension, the Nürburgring settings might be stiffer than what your car is set to now. Mine is at Nürburgring settings but track height and while the suspension dampens really well, it's not what I'd call luxurious. Everyone in the car quickly becomes aware of where the jiggly parts are on their bodies. lol I've always liked cars that are more about performance than comfort so it's no big deal to me. I might have to adjust things to be a bit softer if the gf starts to complain!

[786]

Originally Posted by Secret Chimp

Based on your wife's description of the suspension, the Nürburgring settings might be stiffer than what your car is set to now. Mine is at Nürburgring settings but track height and while the suspension dampens really well, it's not what I'd call luxurious. Everyone in the car quickly becomes aware of where the jiggly parts are on their bodies. lol I've always liked cars that are more about performance than comfort so it's no big deal to me. I might have to adjust things to be a bit softer if the gf starts to complain!

Got it, thanks. I'm gonna note all the settings before anything is changed in case we need to revert back. I need road height or higher lol, we have really bad roads in Dallas and anything low you have to tip toe around which sucks. This is partly why I'm not in a Porsche GT car. Need a lot of ground clearance here and dampers with a lot of compliance, suspension needs to breathe with the road. Currently, the car feels pretty much perfect, very compliant and soft enough but not floaty at all. Much more comfortable than my previous couple Porsches. Wife loves it and was like "finally, you got a nice car" lol.

Just eyeballing the fender gap it looks too low though compared to some BMW press photos i've seen, so I might raise it and keep the same damper settings? I just don't want to worry about the splitter incessantly. I'll have to replace that with a plastic piece. Porsche always sticks cheap plastic lips on their GT cars which are like $250 to replace so I was hoping to find something similar. That Fall-Line piece for $800+ seems like highway robbery. Someone needs to make this for reasonable money...

Couple more impressions:

• Car feels really light, i don't recall what these weigh exactly but it can't be that heavy? It feels very eager to change direction and light on its feet.
• Steering has great feel, maybe this is adding to the light feel of the car overall? It has an organic tactile feel, very nice to use. It might be helping aid the perception that the car is light overall.

[4play]

Originally Posted by Secret Chimp

Based on your wife's description of the suspension, the Nürburgring settings might be stiffer than what your car is set to now. Mine is at Nürburgring settings but track height and while the suspension dampens really well, it's not what I'd call luxurious. Everyone in the car quickly becomes aware of where the jiggly parts are on their bodies. lol I've always liked cars that are more about performance than comfort so it's no big deal to me. I might have to adjust things to be a bit softer if the gf starts to complain!

Agreed. Supple/luxurious is not how I would describe the ride quality at street height and street settings.

Originally Posted by 786

[*]Car feels really light, i don't recall what these weigh exactly but it can't be that heavy? It feels very eager to change direction and light on its feet. [*]Steering has great feel, maybe this is adding to the light feel of the car overall? It has an organic tactile feel, very nice to use. It might be helping aid the perception that the car is light overall.[/LIST]

~3500 lbs. They're not that light really. Steering feel is better than the other F8X because they removed the elastic portion in the steering column.

[786]

Originally Posted by 4play

Agreed. Supple/luxurious is not how I would describe the ride quality at street height and street settings.

Does this look like street height?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by 786

Couple more impressions:

• Car feels really light, i don't recall what these weigh exactly but it can't be that heavy? It feels very eager to change direction and light on its feet.
• Steering has great feel, maybe this is adding to the light feel of the car overall? It has an organic tactile feel, very nice to use. It might be helping aid the perception that the car is light overall.

3500-3600 lbs. ballpark.

But yes, it absolutely feels lighter than that due to chassis stiffness, and responsiveness of literally everything. There is zero filter between your steering, throttle, brake inputs and car reaction.

Originally Posted by 786

Does this look like street height?

Yes.

Edit: rear looks relatively low, but guessing straps are influencing.

[Gomeler]

Glad you're enjoying the car, it really is a bit of a riot. Fiddle with the throttle, steering, transmission, and traction control settings. I setup M1 for in-town(sport throttle, sport+ steering, s2 transmission, mdm), and M2 for the track(efficient throttle, sport+ steering, s1 transmission, dsc off). I don't think I've driven the car with the trans in automatic mode, the DCT is so responsive that the car has the engagement of my manuals, just missing manual downshift rev-matching.

On the street/canyons I found the car to feel very agile, it responds crisply to all inputs. I only notice the weight on the track when it becomes painfully obvious there's 3500lbs of car around you.

Would caution running dsc off on the street. It's quite easy to blow the tires off this car in 2nd and 3rd if tires aren't up to temps. I find MDM is the right amount of hooliganism on the street, perhaps a tad intrusive. I just disable dsc if I'm testing something(primarily water injection lately).

Last bit, the Cup 2s are absolute trash in the rain. They're amazing in the dry. You've been warned

[SYT_Shadow]

On the street it's hard to put enough heat into the PSC2 for them to be better than the PS4s

[786]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

3500-3600 lbs. ballpark.

But yes, it absolutely feels lighter than that due to chassis stiffness, and responsiveness of literally everything. There is zero filter between your steering, throttle, brake inputs and car reaction.

Edit: rear looks relatively low, but guessing straps are influencing.

Ok, it feels lighter than that. Must be the zero filter you mention because it reacts perfectly to my inputs. It feels very natural to drive, no surprises.

I'll try to take another pic on the street. Maybe some measurements are in order.

Originally Posted by Gomeler

Glad you're enjoying the car, it really is a bit of a riot. Fiddle with the throttle, steering, transmission, and traction control settings. I setup M1 for in-town(sport throttle, sport+ steering, s2 transmission, mdm), and M2 for the track(efficient throttle, sport+ steering, s1 transmission, dsc off). I don't think I've driven the car with the trans in automatic mode, the DCT is so responsive that the car has the engagement of my manuals, just missing manual downshift rev-matching.

On the street/canyons I found the car to feel very agile, it responds crisply to all inputs. I only notice the weight on the track when it becomes painfully obvious there's 3500lbs of car around you.

Would caution running dsc off on the street. It's quite easy to blow the tires off this car in 2nd and 3rd if tires aren't up to temps. I find MDM is the right amount of hooliganism on the street, perhaps a tad intrusive. I just disable dsc if I'm testing something(primarily water injection lately).

Last bit, the Cup 2s are absolute trash in the rain. They're amazing in the dry. You've been warned

A riot is a great way to put it, agreed. It's just plain fun, can't say that about many "great" cars i've tried. Really appreciate the M1/2 settings you guys are running, ill try them out. I drove it in D and it felt great, i also tried manual mode using the paddles which felt great too, so fits all moods.

Ya on the street feels ridiculously agile, im sure a track setting would be more revealing but for my use case its perfect. I'll have to look how to activate MDM, i wasn't planning to try DSC off just yet but i could see how it would be a bit dangerous. Even part throttle i encountered wheelspin and slides but I reacted quickly enough to quell anything. It was just fun to me but I can see why some reviewers may not have liked it. If you're not up for that kind of experience it can be unnerving im sure. In the wet I bet its a handful.

Read a lot about the Cup 2s not working well in the rain. I don't envision driving this car much in the rain, if ever, so not really an issue but I appreciate the warning!

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

On the street it's hard to put enough heat into the PSC2 for them to be better than the PS4s

I think you're right, tires seemed cold my entire drive, plus its cooler weather now so that doesnt help. I was thinking to do another set of wheels with PS4's at some point anyway. Preferably with a bit more sidewall for adding compliance.

[4play]

Originally Posted by 786

I just don't want to worry about the splitter incessantly. I'll have to replace that with a plastic piece. Porsche always sticks cheap plastic lips on their GT cars which are like $250 to replace so I was hoping to find something similar. That Fall-Line piece for $800+ seems like highway robbery. Someone needs to make this for reasonable money...

Working on it - found suitable orange HDPE but the sheets are sized incorrectly (OEM lip is 0.375" deep and the sheets are either 0.25" or 0.5"). Could do it in black 0.375" HDPE but then the color doesn't look right. So far I haven't found a place that can mill the 0.5" HDPE sheets into 0.375" HDPE sheets for a reasonable price with the low volume.

Sketch in Fusion 360 is 75% complete. Estimate the cost to manufacture should be <$100 per piece, shipping would be a decent chunk due to the odd sizing (59" wide).

[786]

Originally Posted by 4play

Working on it - found suitable orange HDPE but the sheets are sized incorrectly (OEM lip is 0.375" deep and the sheets are either 0.25" or 0.5"). Could do it in black 0.375" HDPE but then the color doesn't look right. So far I haven't found a place that can mill the 0.5" HDPE sheets into 0.375" HDPE sheets for a reasonable price with the low volume.

Sketch in Fusion 360 is 75% complete. Estimate the cost to manufacture should be <$100 per piece, shipping would be a decent chunk due to the odd sizing (59" wide).

ill be your first customer.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 4play

Working on it - found suitable orange HDPE but the sheets are sized incorrectly (OEM lip is 0.375" deep and the sheets are either 0.25" or 0.5"). Could do it in black 0.375" HDPE but then the color doesn't look right. So far I haven't found a place that can mill the 0.5" HDPE sheets into 0.375" HDPE sheets for a reasonable price with the low volume.

Sketch in Fusion 360 is 75% complete. Estimate the cost to manufacture should be <$100 per piece, shipping would be a decent chunk due to the odd sizing (59" wide).

0.5 sounds like an aero upgrade!

[4play]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

0.5 sounds like an aero upgrade!

Heavy though. The HDPE I'm using weighs 80 pounds for an 96" x 48" x 0.5" sheet.

The splitter itself is around 3.33 square feet, so a 0.50" thickness weighs 8.33 pounds. The stock splitter is ~2.75 pounds, so you might need to upgrade the mounting hardware to hold 3x the splitter weight.

I'm tempted to go with 0.25" HDPE because it will weigh just 4.2 pounds, but I am concerned that the countersunk channel the bolts sit in will either not be deep enough to prevent the bolt heads being ground down or will be too thin and might have the bolts punch through at high speeds/downforce levels.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 4play

Heavy though. The HDPE I'm using weighs 80 pounds for an 96" x 48" x 0.5" sheet.

The splitter itself is around 3.33 square feet, so a 0.50" thickness weighs 8.33 pounds. The stock splitter is ~2.75 pounds, so you might need to upgrade the mounting hardware to hold 3x the splitter weight.

I'm tempted to go with 0.25" HDPE because it will weigh just 4.2 pounds, but I am concerned that the countersunk channel the bolts sit in will either not be deep enough to prevent the bolt heads being ground down or will be too thin and might have the bolts punch through at high speeds/downforce levels.

My bad, I thought you were talking about how far it extends from the car, not thickness.

I'd definitely not want to add weight to the front, or at least minimize the addition

[Secret Chimp]

Originally Posted by 4play

Working on it - found suitable orange HDPE but the sheets are sized incorrectly (OEM lip is 0.375" deep and the sheets are either 0.25" or 0.5"). Could do it in black 0.375" HDPE but then the color doesn't look right. So far I haven't found a place that can mill the 0.5" HDPE sheets into 0.375" HDPE sheets for a reasonable price with the low volume.

Sketch in Fusion 360 is 75% complete. Estimate the cost to manufacture should be <$100 per piece, shipping would be a decent chunk due to the odd sizing (59" wide).

If you went with the thinner HDPE, we would bottom out less than with OEM thickness and it would still likely be strong enough for the purpose. It just might look visually a bit off to those of us who know what it should look like.