Would you consider a GT500 over GTS?

[Wanted_M]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

I'd like a GT350R to complement the GTS

And then a visit to Fatfab for a TT kit

[h_bakken]

Originally Posted by Stark7x

This may be a bit weird, or not... depends how you look at it. I have an opportunity to trade my GTS for 2020 CFTP GT500. Ever since this car came out, Dealers have been asking crazy amounts of markup... Well, end of the year is here and they are selling them at MSRP.

I've been a fan of the GT350R (had one before) as well as this GT500. That being said, I bought a GTS because of its rarity and, let's be honest, the car is just plain fun.

So, that being said, Would any of you guys consider switching from your GTS to a GT500? They're different beasts, obviously, so it may not be a fair comparison. I think, in all honesty, what's holding me back is the fact that "I'd be spending 105K on a ford mustang"

Thoughts/comments? All welcome!

Thanks!

Me GT350 owner ordered GT500 with CFTP dealer had my deposit 18 months. I asked many times what the markup would be and got no information back.

Finally the car arrived they said 45k over, because it was the only track pack allocation for this huge dealer (so they said). I walked out, told the GM "I'm sure you'll get it but not from me."

Pretty much turned me off the Ford oval, truth be told.

8 weeks later traded my GT350 on the GTS and couldn't be happier.

350 or 500, still a Mustang. Cheap interior, my 350 always smelled like exhaust inside, etc. loved the sound and feel of the Voodoo motor but everything else about the car was, well meh...

Even GT500 at MSRP you are throwing away a lot of money just driving it off the lot. C8 Corvette will stomp the 500 when Z06 and eventually ZR1 come out.

If you still want a 500 look around and get a used one IMO.

[Darth One]

45k markup on a 70k car?!

[Boostin FD]

Originally Posted by h_bakken

Me GT350 owner ordered GT500 with CFTP dealer had my deposit 18 months. I asked many times what the markup would be and got no information back.

Finally the car arrived they said 45k over, because it was the only track pack allocation for this huge dealer (so they said). I walked out, told the GM "I'm sure you'll get it but not from me."

Pretty much turned me off the Ford oval, truth be told.

8 weeks later traded my GT350 on the GTS and couldn't be happier.

350 or 500, still a Mustang. Cheap interior, my 350 always smelled like exhaust inside, etc. loved the sound and feel of the Voodoo motor but everything else about the car was, well meh...

Even GT500 at MSRP you are throwing away a lot of money just driving it off the lot. C8 Corvette will stomp the 500 when Z06 and eventually ZR1 come out.

If you still want a 500 look around and get a used one IMO.

I don't think I would judge a car based on a dealerships greed. BMW charged a huge markup for a GTS as well.

I think the gt350 and the 500 are good bang for the buck, as long as you don't mind the panel gaps and the Ford interior. I had a GT350R and loved it... for a short time that I owned it (but that's because I have a car buying-selling problem).

The 500's are beasts, but heavy boats also...

I'm not sure i'd, personally, ever own a corvette, Z06, ZR1 or whatever. In my town, only 55+ year olds drive them... maybe in 15 years I'll get one so I can blend in

I'm selling my GTS, but have no plans in getting anything else to replace it. I seriously need a break... but that's for another story time.

Whatever you decide, you can't go wrong with either. It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. So many awesome cars out there and it's just getting started.

[4play]

Originally Posted by Boostin FD

I don't think I would judge a car based on a dealerships greed. BMW charged a huge markup for a GTS as well.

I think the gt350 and the 500 are good bang for the buck, as long as you don't mind the panel gaps and the Ford interior. I had a GT350R and loved it... for a short time that I owned it (but that's because I have a car buying-selling problem).

The 500's are beasts, but heavy boats also...

I'm not sure i'd, personally, ever own a corvette, Z06, ZR1 or whatever. In my town, only 55+ year olds drive them... maybe in 15 years I'll get one so I can blend in

I'm selling my GTS, but have no plans in getting anything else to replace it. I seriously need a break... but that's for another story time.

Whatever you decide, you can't go wrong with either. It's a great time to be a car enthusiast. So many awesome cars out there and it's just getting started.

Was very close to buying a no-stripe race red GT350R with ~2k miles for quite a bit less than I paid for the GTS (this was prior to used prices skyrocketing). That engine is absolutely fantastic, but in the end, it is a Mustang.

Maybe someday if R prices ever come back to earth...

[Secret Chimp]

I looked at the GT350R, the 500, the LT1 Camaro, and some C7 Z06's. I just can't get past the 'old man car' stink that hovers around the recent crop of American muscle/sports cars. I feel like I would have to get myself some faded and baggy blue jeans, white sneakers, and a Hawaiian shirt to feel at home in one. jk...sort of

The Vettes overheat on hot track days. The Camaro has terrible blind spots. The 500 is terribly overpriced at dealers still. The 350R was the only real contender for my money vs the GTS. It has comparable or slightly better track performance vs the GTS (dep on track). It can be had for less money than the GTS. It might have a cheaper quality interior but it has all the bells and whistles of a modern-ish car. For me, it just came down to liking the feel and look of the GTS more.

[Boostin FD]

Originally Posted by Secret Chimp

I looked at the GT350R, the 500, the LT1 Camaro, and some C7 Z06's. I just can't get past the 'old man car' stink that hovers around the recent crop of American muscle/sports cars. I feel like I would have to get myself some faded and baggy blue jeans, white sneakers, and a Hawaiian shirt to feel at home in one. jk...sort of

The Vettes overheat on hot track days. The Camaro has terrible blind spots. The 500 is terribly overpriced at dealers still. The 350R was the only real contender for my money vs the GTS. It has comparable or slightly better track performance vs the GTS (dep on track). It can be had for less money than the GTS. It might have a cheaper quality interior but it has all the bells and whistles of a modern-ish car. For me, it just came down to liking the feel and look of the GTS more.

You can get 500's now for MSRP... At least based on the research i've done. CFTP ones are 1-3K over, but that can also be negotiated down to MSRP. Let's be honest, it's last years model... so it's "old" HA!

[h_bakken]

Originally Posted by Darth One

45k markup on a 70k car?!

With the carbon track pack, MSRP was about 97k. CFTP is almost 20k if you could get one, Ford allocates very few 500's spec'd with this pack. The dealer was getting 5 but only 1 track pack. The only option I left off was the $10,000 painted stripes. That's right, 10 big ones for stripes (can get vinyl ones like the GT350 for a few hundred though if you really want stripes).

But anyway I'm way happier with my GTS.

[stevehifi]

I think for what it is the GT500 is amazing car, I can't see why you wouldn't want to consider it, 760hp, huge brakes, carbon fiber wheels, well balanced chassis. Every review has been positive and the lap it did at laguna seca is amazing.
Stock for Stock the M4 GTS can't touch it from a performance perspective and don't forget the GTS cost $130k when it came out.

Sure it's not built like a german car from a quality perspective but come on that's a given.. chevy, ford, even tesla.. they all have quality issues.

Hey at least sounds like a proper race car with that amazing V8, compared to the awful sounding s55.

I would look at the new porsche cayman GT4 also.. it's in the same ballpark price.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

I think for what it is the GT500 is amazing car, I can't see why you wouldn't want to consider it, 760hp, huge brakes, carbon fiber wheels, well balanced chassis. Every review has been positive and the lap it did at laguna seca is amazing.
Stock for Stock the M4 GTS can't touch it from a performance perspective and don't forget the GTS cost $130k when it came out.

The + ~700 lbs. is a good reason for owners who intend to track. Pobst doesn't have to pay for consumables.

[4play]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

I think for what it is the GT500 is amazing car, I can't see why you wouldn't want to consider it, 760hp, huge brakes, carbon fiber wheels, well balanced chassis. Every review has been positive and the lap it did at laguna seca is amazing.
Stock for Stock the M4 GTS can't touch it from a performance perspective and don't forget the GTS cost $130k when it came out.

Sure it's not built like a german car from a quality perspective but come on that's a given.. chevy, ford, even tesla.. they all have quality issues.

Hey at least sounds like a proper race car with that amazing V8, compared to the awful sounding s55.

I would look at the new porsche cayman GT4 also.. it's in the same ballpark price.

GTS came out almost 5 years ago though. They aren't $130k anymore. New GT4 isn't in the same price ballpark as a GTS either. $120K+ if you option it well.

It's easy to gloss over quality issues in a hypothetical situation, but we are talking about a $100K+ version of a Mustang.

I'm sure the GT500 can put in 1 flying lap very well and then have issues with cooling, brakes, tires, etc. It's incredibly heavy - over 4200 pounds with a full tank of fuel. That will (as mentioned above) absolutely eat consumables and limit your session length.

[stevehifi]

Originally Posted by 4play

GTS came out almost 5 years ago though. They aren't $130k anymore. New GT4 isn't in the same price ballpark as a GTS either. $120K+ if you option it well.

It's easy to gloss over quality issues in a hypothetical situation, but we are talking about a $100K+ version of a Mustang.

I'm sure the GT500 can put in 1 flying lap very well and then have issues with cooling, brakes, tires, etc. It's incredibly heavy - over 4200 pounds with a full tank of fuel. That will (as mentioned above) absolutely eat consumables and limit your session length.

I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing with the quality issues.. its a couple minor things that could be easily remedied. You know many issues I had with my e90m3? BMW's have come a long way but they're not perfect either. Most of us enthusiasts when we buy cars go through the trouble of inspecting, doing the recalls and having the dealer make things right... that's what the warranty is for. (ie. carbon fiber driveshaft recall ring a bell?)

The GT500 with CFTP weighs 4080lbs with a full tank. M4 GTS is around 3600lbs.. sorry but it's no lightweight either.
At least GT500 has some nice options to mitigate the weight impact (huge brakes, carbon wheels, aero) and oh yeah.. 760hp.

Your statement about the car just being able to do one lap is silly.. what is that based on? These cars have no known cooling issues.

ZL1 1LE/GT350R are pretty heavy too (about 3800lbs) but amazing on a track and no cooling problems.

I don't dispute that consumables will cost a little more but you're splitting hairs here. Tracking cars is expensive period, an extra set of tires and pads here and there isn't going to make you less broke... it's an expensive hobby.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

I don't dispute that consumables will cost a little more but you're splitting hairs here. Tracking cars is expensive period, an extra set of tires and pads here and there isn't going to make you less broke... it's an expensive hobby.

Even with unlimited funds, it'll become an annoyance. Reported I've seen multiple GT500 at recent events. Reminds me a lot of when GT-R's were the soup du jour track cars. They attract buyers because of reported one lap performance, then owners try to use them as such. Never see GT-R's at the track anymore.

I bet Cup 2 last 1 day advanced pace on the GT500. They're trash by day 3 on a GT3. That's annoying enough.

GTS isn't easy on consumables by any means, but manageable. An extra few track days on tires and brakes makes a difference in the ownership experience. M3's in the mid-3000's have always worked as street + track cars. 4,000 lbs. plus (and 700+ hp) is a breaking point, imo. They don't make tires and brakes durable enough for that yet.

[stevehifi]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Even with unlimited funds, it'll become an annoyance. Reported I've seen multiple GT500 at recent events. Reminds me a lot of when GT-R's were the soup du jour track cars. They attract buyers because of reported one lap performance, then owners try to use them as such. Never see GT-R's at the track anymore.

I bet Cup 2 last 1 day advanced pace on the GT500. They're trash by day 3 on a GT3. That's annoying enough.

GTS isn't easy on consumables by any means, but manageable. An extra few track days on tires and brakes makes a difference in the ownership experience. M3's in the mid-3000's have always worked as street + track cars. 4,000 lbs. plus (and 700+ hp) is a breaking point, imo. They don't make tires and brakes durable enough for that yet.

Agree with you that 4k lbs cars aren't optimal for consumables... problem is the list of high perf cars that are lightweight is diminishing.. only 911/cayman/vette ... everything else is moving to high weight/high hp and will only get worse as car makers start adding electric motors/batteries.
Look at the new G8x m3/m4.. 3900lbs (without AWD)

[4play]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

The GT500 with CFTP weighs 4080lbs with a full tank. M4 GTS is around 3600lbs.. sorry but it's no lightweight either.

3530lb vs. 4080lb (CFTP GT500) or 4200lb (GT500).

If I was going to spend a bunch of money on a hotted-up muscle car, it wouldn't be the GT500. ZL1 1LEs can be had for under 50% of the price of a GT500 CFTP and are quicker around a circuit.

Both are too heavy.

[Stark7x]

I can't believe this thread is still going HA! For what is worth, not everyone buys the GTS nor GT500 for tracking... I know that's what they're for, but if you look at all of them for sale, they barely have any miles... which means, it was bought for show.

Either way, I'll keep mine little longer.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Agree with you that 4k lbs cars aren't optimal for consumables... problem is the list of high perf cars that are lightweight is diminishing.. only 911/cayman/vette ... everything else is moving to high weight/high hp and will only get worse as car makers start adding electric motors/batteries.
Look at the new G8x m3/m4.. 3900lbs (without AWD)

Even those on this list are bloating with each gen... the c8 specifically went up nearly 200 lbs to 3650...

[Tom B]

Originally Posted by Wanted_M

And then a visit to Fatfab for a TT kit

I can recommend Fathouse....... Here's my GT350

[Tom B]

Originally Posted by Stark7x

I can't believe this thread is still going HA! For what is worth, not everyone buys the GTS nor GT500 for tracking... I know that's what they're for, but if you look at all of them for sale, they barely have any miles... which means, it was bought for show.

Either way, I'll keep mine little longer.

I flipped a couple and kept this one, haven't decided what I'm doing with it yet.

[Stark7x]

Originally Posted by Tom B

I flipped a couple and kept this one, haven't decided what I'm doing with it yet.

That’s the one I almost ended up getting... plus it had the painted stripes. I just couldn’t justify throwing 10k on Kona blue painted stripes. No way!

[stevehifi]

The latest bmw episode 1 mentions that the g8x is supposedly faster than GTS around a track with cup2 tires. Weight is about 3682 for the base model with 6 speed, $72k base price. Might be a good alternative with $30k I'm sure you can add a lot of go fast goodies.

[4play]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

The latest bmw episode 1 mentions that the g8x is supposedly faster than GTS around a track with cup2 tires. Weight is about 3682 for the base model with 6 speed, $72k base price. Might be a good alternative with $30k I'm sure you can add a lot of go fast goodies.

G82 base model is 3830lb curb weight with manual and no options per official certification documents. Not sure where they pulled that low number from in the video - maybe with low fuel load?

Also, it may be the ugliest new car on sale today.