02-21-2014, 03:14 PM | #89 |
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02-21-2014, 03:21 PM | #90 |
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02-21-2014, 03:41 PM | #91 | |
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What use is a airbag going off that is placed in the opposite direction of where the occupant is headed towards during the collision? |
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02-21-2014, 04:15 PM | #92 | |
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Brake temperatures (rotor and pads) fluctuate (obviously) with the application of brake loads and the period in between when they are only cooling with no applied loads. Despite cooling better CSiC brakes also heat up more for a given brake load. If it were not for a matched pad designed to deal with these higher temperatures, this particular feature of a CSiC rotor (very light weight) actually makes them more fade prone. Again to be clear, not necessarily more fade prone than some base non CSiC system, but simply more fade prone than if they operated at a cooler peak/average temperature.
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02-21-2014, 04:29 PM | #93 | |
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02-21-2014, 04:34 PM | #94 | |
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02-21-2014, 04:43 PM | #95 |
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Again, only one person is justifying their reason to dump cash. The rest of us are going the opposite route and saying that the stock brakes will suit us just fine.
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02-21-2014, 04:44 PM | #96 | |
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I agree that fade originates from the pad and that CCBs can be fitted with much more aggresive pads. But the overall brake system's ability to dissipate heat during braking and between braking is also a big contributor to how the pads will be able to resist fade. Anyway the point of my post was not about a dissection of why CCB perform better... Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-21-2014 at 05:01 PM.. |
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02-21-2014, 04:44 PM | #97 | ||
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That's what I thought was both the reason for the high operating temperature and relative fade resistance. But is it correct...??? |
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02-21-2014, 04:57 PM | #98 |
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So how many of you guys manage to keep the car longer than the warranty and modify your car, treat your car with your inner passionate instead of a DD tool with some tracking potential? If you are just gonna lease the car and return it then I agree this option is a totally waste of money. However for ppl who's going to modify the car, they gonna need the BBK sooner or later for another 8000, so why not take the chance to get it from stock plus you get the carbon ceramic rotors. Even if the rotors can not maintain long enough you could still get steel rotors for replacement like the after market BBK. Am I making any mistakes from this point of view?
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02-21-2014, 04:59 PM | #99 |
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Can we at least agree that if it was a no cost option everyone posting here would take it? Literally if you had to check a box that said "Steel Brakes $0" or else you would get the CCB as standard equipment.
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02-21-2014, 05:09 PM | #100 | |
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Of course, but that isn't the case. Hell, even if the CCB's were half the price, more would be willing to opt for it. That doesn't change the debate regarding its performance relative to steel brakes however. |
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02-21-2014, 05:14 PM | #101 | |
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IMO, it is really the whole system that contributes to the resistance to fade. PS the little knowledge I have on CCB is on aircraft application, not cars. Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-21-2014 at 05:22 PM.. |
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02-21-2014, 05:16 PM | #102 | |
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I have always stated that not opting for CCBs is a cost/benefit decision for me. |
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02-21-2014, 05:18 PM | #103 |
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02-21-2014, 05:24 PM | #104 |
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02-21-2014, 05:24 PM | #105 | ||
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02-21-2014, 06:45 PM | #107 | |||
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There's definitely a bling factor with them, but they really don't interest me that much. .
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Last edited by aus; 02-21-2014 at 07:22 PM.. |
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02-21-2014, 07:09 PM | #108 |
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From my "foreign car" perspective one of the killer reasons to switch is access to 4 wheel CCB. I'm not necessarily getting more horsepower. I'm losing my hydraulic steering. I'll have to deal with efficient dynamics and start/stop. I'll have to pull some fuse to get rid of the engine sounds in the speakers.
I want to believe this brake kit is awesome. If it sucks this might not be a good car for me or provide no additional utility.
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02-21-2014, 07:19 PM | #109 | |
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02-22-2014, 12:14 AM | #110 |
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I thought these notes from a PFC race engineer I chatted with might be of interest, it's easy to misuse terminology when talking about brakes, most use the term "fade" generically, I certainly have before. (text in parenthesis are my notes on usual cause)
-Brake fade is when the pedal is hard, but after a period of time the braking efficiency starts to diminish. (pad temp issue) -Brake compressibility is when the pedal starts to get spongy and and pumping the pedal doesn't help pedal firmness. (brake fluid temp issue) -knock-back is when the pedal gets long and a tap of the pedal helps the pedal firmness (from hitting curbing, worn bearings, suspension issue, balance problem) -ABS freeze is the brake pedal is hard, you apply more effort and no additional stopping power is available -going over center on the brake pedal and loosing mechanical advantage, effect is soft pedal and lost efficiency. -aggressive "jump in" from the initial apply and the ABS strategy implements a "preemptive mode" and pulls pressure out of the system there by reducing "bite" in an effort to maintain threshold tire grip, Last edited by consolidated; 02-22-2014 at 12:20 AM.. |
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