Video: BMW M3 vs C63 S AMG comparison review | evo DEADLY RIVALS

[04cobra]

Don't get me wrong, I love the ///M but 7 tenths of a second? That's BARELY beating it IMO. Especially when none of us will ever be able to drive it that well on a track.

[Warranty P]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Finally, Mercedes has a legitimate contender to the E9X M3.

Same could be said for RC-F.

I think I said M3/4 will rule once again about a month ago...I was scoffed at then. Anyway weight will always fuck you up, it's just a fact.

[F80NJM3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You mean 7:52

Attachment 1228002

I stand corrected.. Definitely looking forward to amg numbers at the 'Ring.

[raysspl]

Nothing new. The C63 does look good too!

[Warranty P]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

Don't get me wrong, I love the ///M but 7 tenths of a second? That's BARELY beating it IMO. Especially when none of us will ever be able to drive it that well on a track.

Around such a small track it is huge. If you take the same difference on an average (3 1/2 min) lap track you have almost a 2 second gap.

Maybe this C63S had that panorama sunroof.

[coolmody]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

Don't get me wrong, I love the ///M but 7 tenths of a second? That's BARELY beating it IMO. Especially when none of us will ever be able to drive it that well on a track.

That's a very big gap on this short of a track. In the hands of an amateur, that gap widens even more.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by swagon

I'm actually glad there is still a difference between M and AMG. Both brands have been getting closer and closer with each generation, but these slight differences is what makes the cars so special in their own way.

evo video top as always.

I was thinking this during the video.

The cars have always been similar but satisfy a different enthusiast. If I was a die hard MB follower, I would be disappointed if they took the approach BMW did with the new generation.

Likewise, I think almost everyone is happy with the direction the new M3/4 has taken. If it added weight and horsepower to be more along the lines of the MB, the bimmer faithful would be disappointed.

I like how the two cars are similar in many areas but have their own nuances and evoke different emotions in the driving experience.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

Don't get me wrong, I love the ///M but 7 tenths of a second? That's BARELY beating it IMO. Especially when none of us will ever be able to drive it that well on a track.

I think the more telling picture will be when people take their C63's on the track and the tranny overheats again, and the brakes (only front ccb's) will not last on multi lap events. that's my guess....

[Jim B]

A better test would include no only the BMW M4 and the Mercedes C63 AMG, but also Cadillac ATS-V, Lexus RC-F, and the Audi RS5. Oh, let's include another one in this price range, the Dodge Challenger Hellcat.

[vladberca]

Normally it should have been M3 vs C63 and M3 ZCP vs AMG S...
And an M4 CSL will follow

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

You don't think that is a wee bit silly? The F80 is down 80 HP, the only place it won't win is a comparo with long straights as it shouldn't given a massive power disadvantage. Doesn't sound to me like Benz did much in the handling department at all given those were the parts that were touted.

Silly ??

That is one review, mostly focused on track performance on one particular track.

Different reviews with a different focus (not as track oriented) or done on different tracks may very well come to a different conclusion.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Silly ??

That is one review, mostly focused on track performance on one particular track.

Different reviews with a different focus (not as track oriented) or done on different tracks may very well come to a different conclusion.

You don't think that this is enough to assume that anywhere the C63s will win it will be solely based on the fact that it has 80 hp extra...? Clearly not due to some crazy chassis, suspension or grip engineering... I respect the car greatly for what it is, in fact, I drove one a few days ago... but let's be honest, the only real advantage as a performance car that this vehicle has is it's engine / power (this btw is a more powerful version as well) which is somewhat sad as that's not what MB touted for the last few years.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

You don't think that this is enough to assume that anywhere the C63s will win it will be solely based on the fact that it has 80 hp extra...? Clearly not due to some crazy chassis, suspension or grip engineering... I respect the car greatly for what it is, in fact, I drove one a few days ago... but let's be honest, the only real advantage as a performance car that this vehicle has is it's engine / power (this btw is a more powerful version as well) which is somewhat sad as that's not what MB touted for the last few years.

yep agreed, i respect the car, but this is now 2 tracks that the amg has lost.

there was a lot of marketing hype on this car, it is not as great as the marketing suggested, still a great car.

[Kenu8187]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

You mean 7:52

Attachment 1228002

2 generations later and still slower than the CSL...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ASAP

You don't think that this is enough to assume that anywhere the C63s will win it will be solely based on the fact that it has 80 hp extra...? Clearly not due to some crazy chassis, suspension or grip engineering... I respect the car greatly for what it is, in fact, I drove one a few days ago... but let's be honest, the only real advantage as a performance car that this vehicle has is it's engine / power (this btw is a more powerful version as well) which is somewhat sad as that's not what MB touted for the last few years.

Don't get me wrong, I am an ///M fan and it is an F8X sitting in my driveway, not a W205 C63. I have no plans of switching it for a C63 either.

Think of it though, how many folks are actually able to exploit the handling advantage that the M3/4 has over the C63S?

However, most folks can indulge in the mash-and-go the extra 80hp provide, the more luxurious aspect of the cabin or the sonorous bliss of the V8. As a track rat, handling wins it for me, but different folks will have different priorities.

As I stated previously, this is one review on one particular track and the F8X shined at what it does better. Other reviews with a different focus may very likely pick a different victor.

Let's not be fanboyz here .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Kenu8187

2 generations later and still slower than the CSL...

Just to put things in perspective, the CSL came with R-comp tires from the factory. That has a significant impact on that lap time...

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Don't get me wrong, I am an ///M fan and it is an F8X sitting in my driveway, not a W205. I have no plans of switching it for a W205 either.

Think of it though, how many folks are actually able to exploit the handling advantage that the F8X has over the W205?

However, most folks can indulge in the mash-and-go the extra 80hp provide, the more luxurious aspect of the cabin or the sonorous bliss of the V8. As a track rat, handling is more important to me, but different folks will have different priorities.

As I stated previously, this is one review on one particular track and the F8X shined at what it does better. Other reviews with a different focus may very likely pick a different victor.

Let's not be fanoyz here .

those are very good points.

But as I have learned from past experiences, more HP does not mean more enjoyable. It is hard not to pass up a more powerful car, but the C63S is also more money, so as a buyer I would expect it to be a better handler as well.

Honestly though, y not have both and get a jb4 for the M?

[irablumberg]

The C63S is clearly more of a grand touring car than a hard core track car. This is especially true with the Pano roof which appears to weigh at least 150 lbs. On the other hand, having owned an M4 for a year and now having traded it for a C63S, I can say for me, the C63S is the "better" car.

I have concluded that when I want to drive on the track, I want to drive someone else's $70K+ car. I did not want to track my M4 as the cost in brakes, tires and general wear would be relatively high and the risk of very expensive crash damage made the prospect quite unappealing. I'm much happier to pay for some fancy driving school in which I drive even more track oriented cars, while enjoying my personal car on the road.

Based on this, why is the C63S "better" for me? I find the interior much more comfortable, particularly for longer drives which I expect to do 5 to 8 times a year. The A/C in my M4 was weak and did not keep me comfortable during the warmer North Carolina summer days. The C does just fine in this regard. The ride is much more comfortable in the C. Finally, the stability control on the C is actually much more pleasant and much less intrusive than on the M. I expect that with stability control off, the M will have higher cornering limits and perhaps better controlled limits than the C. However, even in MDM mode, the M was much more restrictive for cornering than the C. This actually makes the C more "fun" to drive on the street than the M as I was not willing to drive the M with stability control off regularly.

Finally, I have just one thing to say to all the folks lambasting the C for being bigger, heavier, more expensive and slower on the track than the M and claiming that this is really the most important thing; Camaro Z/28. If track performance is really that important for you, why did you buy the M rather than the Camaro? The Z/28 annihilates the M on every track test (e.g., 'ring time of 7:52 vs. 7:37), costs less, etc.

I expect your answer would come down to ride comfort and quality on the street, practicality and a few other non-track related factors. My point is that those same factors are just as relevant in choosing a C over an M even though the performance gap between the C and the M is much smaller than the gap between the M and Z/28.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

so as a buyer I would expect it to be a better handler as well.

...and that is YOU as a buyer.

I am pretty sure the vast majority of W205 buyers (and probably F8X buyers for that matter) will never pass 6/10th of the car's handling potential. So to them, the W205 handles pretty darn good .

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Don't get me wrong, I am an ///M fan and it is an F8X sitting in my driveway, not a W205. I have no plans of switching it for a W205 either.

Think of it though, how many folks are actually able to exploit the handling advantage that the F8X has over the W205?

However, most folks can indulge in the mash-and-go the extra 80hp provide, the more luxurious aspect of the cabin or the sonorous bliss of the V8. As a track rat, handling wins it for me, but different folks will have different priorities.

As I stated previously, this is one review on one particular track and the F8X shined at what it does better. Other reviews with a different focus may very likely pick a different victor.

Let's not be fanoyz here .

Hey, I think we agree 100%... I just think that at one point, the marketing would have led one to believe slightly otherwise.

I love power but with power come other things... to make better use of the power, it's better to have a lighter car... then throw in the fact that the F80 (subjective) looks far better and has a ton more steering feel, the winner in my mind is clear. The steering truly detracts from a connected experience in the C63 so an F80 with a 40-50 hp tune would be the golden child.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Don't get me wrong, I am an ///M fan and it is an F8X sitting in my driveway, not a W205. I have no plans of switching it for a W205 either.

Think of it though, how many folks are actually able to exploit the handling advantage that the F8X has over the W205?

However, most folks can indulge in the mash-and-go the extra 80hp provide, the more luxurious aspect of the cabin or the sonorous bliss of the V8. As a track rat, handling wins it for me, but different folks will have different priorities.

As I stated previously, this is one review on one particular track and the F8X shined at what it does better. Other reviews with a different focus may very likely pick a different victor.

Let's not be fanoyz here .

Let's not let them completely off the hook either, though. In all their intro hype, they were targeting the M cars, saying the weight was greatly reduced, handling best in class, going after the track rats. Instead, they came out with a 4000 lb. porpoise that can't turn and has vague steering and can't put it's extra power down. You're absolutely right though, it will win some comparos. Mercedes built a car for their customers. Stoplight quick, great view of the heavens, cushy leather, and you never have to shift. You won't see many at the track.

[FilipMPower]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Hmm.. how do you think a W204 is dynamically a better car? I don't know if I can agree on that.

The W204 is dynamically way more trimmed for sport than the W205, which seems to be comfort and strong engine.