C7 or M4

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

I changed my E90 SC M3 to 08 Z06, never again will I buy american. No thank you. I'm either going back to old m3 and throwing SC, or maybe new m3 (if price is not too high).

[135kev]

Fiat !!!

[RMB]

I'm going with the M4, but it looks like Edmunds just did a comparison of the C7 vette vs the M3 (lime rock edition). From a performance standpoint the M3 didn't doing very well compared to the vette. I guess this shows how far the vette has come compared to the C6 generation, not only in performance, but fit and finish, etc.

[carlos@velosdesignwerks]

m4!

[smashhell]

Now that the C7 is out and the spec for M4 is released. Time to restart the discussion.

Which would you choose?

[smashhell]

Suripisingly the M3/M4 have very similar performance to C7. Exactly the same 0-60 and Power to weight ratio. This is going to be interesting.

Corvette C7

MSRP $51,000 to $75000
0-60 : 3.9
Power to Weight ratio : 289 bhp/tonne
Curb weight 3,444 lb

Powertrain 6.2L V8 DI engine RWD
Standard Engine Gas V8
Displacement (liters/cu. in.) 6.2L/376
7-speed manual transmission Standard
6-speed Paddle Shift automatic transmission Available
Horsepower @ RPM 455 @ 6000
Horsepower (with performance exhaust) 460
Torque @ RPM 460 @ 4600
Fuel Injection Direct Injection
Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive
Axle Ratio 3.42
Steering/Suspension 6.2L V8 DI engine RWD
Front Suspension Short/Long Arm
Rear Suspension Short/Long Arm
Brakes 6.2L V8 DI engine RWD
4-Wheel Disc Brakes Yes
Brake/ABS System 4-Wheel
Wheelbase 106.7 in (2,710 mm)
Length 176.9 in (4,493 mm)
Width 73.9 in (1,877 mm)
Height 48.6 in (1,234 mm)


M3/M4

MSRP $62,000 to $85000
0-60 : 3.9
Power to Weight ratio : 288 bhp/tonne
Weight: 3300lbs !

Engine / Exhaust

3.0L inline 6 cylinder Twin Turbo engine (S55)
2,979 cc
Stroke/Bore: 89.6mm / 84.0mm
425 HP from 5500-7300 RPM
406 LB-FT torque from 1850-5500 RPM
0-60 MPH: 3.9 seconds (DCT) / 4.1 seconds (manual)
7600 RPM rev limiter
10.2:1 compression ratio
Top Speed: 155 MPH / 250 KMH
Nearly 25% fuel consumption and emissions reduction over E90/E92 M3
22 pounds / 10 kilograms lighter than S65 V8 predecessor engine
Two mono-scroll turbochargers
Mitsubishi mono-scroll turbochargers
18.1 PSI / 1.25 BAR max peak
Pre-tensioned in Sport and Sport+ modes (keep spinning at a high rate of speed even after throttle lift-off, for ultra quick response - more details)
Impulse charging for optimized responsiveness
Flow-enhanced manifolds
Electric wastegate actuator
Direct Injection, Valvetronic variable valve timing and Double-VANOS continuously variable camshaft timing
Closed-deck crankcase design (4.4 lbs / 2kg lighter)
Twin-wire arc-sprayed coating used instead of liners (saves weight)
Forged, torsionally rigid crankshaft (3kg / 6.6 lbs) lighter than typical BMW inline 6 engine)
Track-specification cooling system
Air intake system features an indirect intercooler
Water cooler repositioned to the side for the high- and low-temperature water circuits, and the engine and transmission oil (if the M Double Clutch Transmission is specified)
Additional electric coolant pump cools the turbocharger bearing mounts when the car is stationary
Low-weight magnesium oil sump features special cover to limit movement of the oil under the effects of strong dynamic lateral acceleration
Under extreme longitudinal acceleration and deceleration, an oil extraction pump and a sophisticated oil return system situated close to the turbocharger help to maintain stable oil circulation
Double-flow oil recirculation pumps
Turbocharger suction system
Main radiator plus additional radiators for the high- and low-temperature circuits, turbocharger and transmission
Large indirect intercooler (sits atop engine, necessitating hood bulge)
Low-weight magnesium oil sump (2.2 lbs / 1kg lighter)
Temperature-stabilizing electric water pump
Electronically control Exhaust
Electrically controlled flaps just before the rear silencer minimize exhaust back-pressure and produce a BMW M sound, as well as giving precise feedback on engine load
When closed, flow is forced into and laterally across the silencer; when open, flow is more directly through the narrow part of the silencer
Different selectable drive modes feature different engine sound profiles
Catalysts with metal substrate (less restrictive than ceramic)
Exhaust always exits all four tail pipes



Transmission

7 Speed M Double Clutch Transmission (M-DCT) with Drivelogic
Third generation M-DCT
Integrated Launch Control function
Stability Clutch Control opens clutch when car is understeering to bring it back into line
Drivelogic modes can be selected for more comfortable, economy focused or sportier characteristics
6 Speed Manual Transmission
Robust double-plate clutch
More compact and quieter than predecessor
26.4 pounds (12kg) lighter than predecessor
New carbon friction linings in synchronizer rings increases shift comfort
Dry sump lubrication
Automatic throttle blip downshifts (rev matching is disabled in Sport+ mode; active in Sport and Comfort modes)


Active M Differential

Hollow lightweight output shafts
Electronically controlled multi-plate limited slip differential (LSD)
Control unit links up with the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) system and also takes into account the position of the accelerator pedal, the rotational speed of the wheels and the car’s yaw rate
0% - 100% degree of lock
M Dynamic Mode allows greater wheel slip, but with the safety net of DSC



CFRP drive shaft

feeds engine's torque from gearbox to rear differential
increased stiffness
reduced rotating mass for better acceleration and throttle response
single-piece unit with no center bearing
40% weight saving over predecessor
tested for speeds up to 205 MPH



Electric Power Steering

Entirely new electric power steering (EPS) unit, built by ZF
Servotronic function electronically adjusts the level of steering assistance according to the car's speed
3 modes: Comfort, Sport, Sport+ (standard option)
Specially tuned for M3/M4
Will not compensate for understeer, oversteer, coarse road surface. Motor will not help unwind the steering wheel and it will self-center by by natural forces



Suspension / Tires / Brakes

Optional EDC Adaptive M Suspension features 3 modes: Comfort, Sport, Sport+
Double-joint spring strut front axle
Lightweight aluminum construction for components such as control arms, wheel carriers and axle subframes saves 11 pounds (5kg) over a conventional steel design
Play-free ball joints and elastomeric bearings developed specially for the M3/M4 ensure an optimum and direct transfer of forces both laterally and longitudinally
Aluminum stiffening plate
CFRP front strut brace
Five-link rear axle
Forged aluminum construction for control arms and wheel carriers - reducing unspring mass of wheel-locating components by around 6.6 pounds (3 kg)
Rear axle subframe bolted directly to body structure (bolted joints between the axle subframe and the body sills, without use of elastic rubber elements)
Tires incorporated into construction process for the axles
low-weight 18-inch forged wheels (front axle: 9 J x 18, rear axle: 10 J x 18) with mixed-size tires (front axle: 255 mm, rear axle: 275 mm).
19-inch wheels and tires are available as an option (in Ferric Grey or Black)
BMW M compound brakes standard (in blue)
four piston front / two piston rear
BMW M carbon ceramic brakes optional (in gold)
six piston front / four piston rear
6-7kg (13.2lbs - 15.4lbs) lighter overall than standard brakes



Lightweight Construction

BMW M4 Coupe features DIN curb weight of 1,497 kilograms (3300 pounds), around 80 kilograms (176 pounds) lighter than a comparably equipped predecessor model.
Contoured (double-bubble) CFRP roof on both M3 Sedan and M4 Coupe
saves 11 pounds (5kg) on M3
saves >13 pounds (6kg) on M4
CFRP trunk lid on M4
CFRP drive shaft saves 40% weight
CFRP strut brace (weighs 3.3 pounds / 1.5 kg) offers more rigidity than aluminum counterpart
CFRP roof bow
Aluminum front fenders and hood



Aerodynamics

Front apron, smooth underbody and gurney spoiler at the rear of the M3 Sedan (or integrated spoiler lip at the rear of the BMW M4 Coupe) reduce lift by an equal degree at the front and rear axle.
Inflowing air through the engine oil cooler creates a Venturi effect, which reduces front axle lift and, in so doing, improves the steering.
Air Curtain and M gills with integrated Air Breather rearwards of the front wheels minimize turbulence in the front wheel arches.
Aerodynamically optimized exterior mirrors in twin-stalk style.



Interior

Front seats visually inspired by bucket seats, with illuminated M logo on seat backrests
Contoured rear seats made from lightweight composite material can be folded in 60:40 split
M Sport leather multifunction steering wheel with chrome trim and color contrast stitching
Anthracite roof liner standard
M door sill finishers, M driver’s footrest, M gearshift lever



Technology

BMW M Laptimer app [more details]
Optional Head-Up Display (HUD) (comes with gear display, rev counter and Optimum Shift Indicator, etc.)



Physicals / Curb Weight / Construction

Length:
M3 - 183.9 in / 4671 mm (3.5 inches longer than E90 M3)
M4 - 183.9 in / 4671 mm (2.5 inches longer than E92 M3)
Width:
M3 - 73.9 in / 1877mm (2.2 inches wider than E90 M3)
M4 - 73.6 in / 1870 mm (1.9 inches wider than E92 M3)
Height:
M3 - 56.0 in / 1424 mm (1 inch lower than E90 M3)
M4 - 54.4 in / 1383 mm (1.2 inches lower than E92 M3)
Wheelbase:
M3 - 110.7 in / 2812 mm (2 inches longer than E90 M3)
M4 - 110.7 in / 2812 mm (2 inches longer than E90 M3)
Front track: 62.1 in / 1579 mm
Rear track: 63.1 / 1603 mm
Weight:
3300 lbs / 1497 kg (all fluids, 90% fuel, no driver)
3466 lbs / 1572 kg / (plus 68kg driver and 7kg luggage)
M4 is 80kg (176 pounds) lighter than E92 M3 coupe, when comparably equipped
M4 is 23kg (50 pounds) lighter than F80 M3 sedan
Cd (drag coefficient): 0.34 (compared to 0.31 of E90/E92 M3)
50:50 weight distribution

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

Slightly used 991S.
But for the sake of the thread... C7 Z06.

This is a decent price jump over the C7 or the M3/4 no? I think you could get a nice 997.2 S for the same price range. If I could get a 991 S for the same price as the new M3 I'm ordering I don't think I would be ordering it. lol

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by kotik

I changed my E90 SC M3 to 08 Z06, never again will I buy american. No thank you. I'm either going back to old m3 and throwing SC, or maybe new m3 (if price is not too high).

Care to elaborate? What was so bad about the 08 Z06.

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by dmk08

This is a decent price jump over the C7 or the M3/4 no? I think you could get a nice 997.2 S for the same price range. If I could get a 991 S for the same price as the new M3 I'm ordering I don't think I would be ordering it. lol

I think you're generally right. After a brief search, this is the cheapest (listed) 991 S I could find.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=1

That's the same as a pretty loaded M3/M4, and it has 28k miles instead of 0. I think it's safe to say the actual costs of ownership (i.e. depreciation + maintenance and repairs) are going to be considerably higher on the 991 S.

[Randy M]

That's the problem I have with Porsche. I've had 4 911's. The cars are great but Porsche absolutely gouges their customers. They bend you over as much as they can get away with.

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by Rated R

That's the problem I have with Porsche. I've had 4 911's. The cars are great but Porsche absolutely gouges their customers. They bend you over as much as they can get away with.

I've never owned one, but that is my perception. They get great reviews though, and the 991 and 981 look great I think.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Rated R

That's the problem I have with Porsche. I've had 4 911's. The cars are great but Porsche absolutely gouges their customers. They bend you over as much as they can get away with.

Like how a 62k M3 turns into a 90k one optioned? lol

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Like how a 62k M3 turns into a 90k one optioned? lol

That would be with absolutely every option (my guess anyway). An equivalently optioned 991 S would be about 140 - 150k. Porsche charges extra for fu***** everything. The M3/M4 will have a lot more stuff standard -- off the top of my head, things like heated seats, power seats, xenon headlights, automatic climate control, a decent sound system, LSD, carbon fiber stuff, good steering wheel, you have to pay extra for on a Porsche. When I go to option one, there's a lot more that I feel like I need to have, compared to most BMWs, and especially M cars which come pretty well equipped to start with. I think the new M3/M4 are supposed to come with navigation standard too.

[Randy M]

Not to mention the maintenance costs of Porsche's. Over the top ridiculous. Included with purchase BMW maintenance for 45K miles....um yeah I'll take that.

[jbockrd]

Just saw both in Detroit, even the Z06 and still love the M4 overall package!!!!

[smashhell]

Originally Posted by jbockrd

Just saw both in Detroit, even the Z06 and still love the M4 overall package!!!!

How does the appearance in comparison?
Does the M3/M4 look remotely close to the Corvette in the look department?

[RealStig]

C7

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by E36toF30

That would be with absolutely every option (my guess anyway). An equivalently optioned 991 S would be about 140 - 150k. Porsche charges extra for fu***** everything. The M3/M4 will have a lot more stuff standard -- off the top of my head, things like heated seats, power seats, xenon headlights, automatic climate control, a decent sound system, LSD, carbon fiber stuff, good steering wheel, you have to pay extra for on a Porsche. When I go to option one, there's a lot more that I feel like I need to have, compared to most BMWs, and especially M cars which come pretty well equipped to start with. I think the new M3/M4 are supposed to come with navigation standard too.

It's 2014 and the car has a base MSRP of 62k+. It should have navigation standard lol. Don't get me wrong I have one on order but lets not act like the M3 is a good deal. Cause it ain't.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by RMB

I'm going with the M4, but it looks like Edmunds just did a comparison of the C7 vette vs the M3 (lime rock edition). From a performance standpoint the M3 didn't doing very well compared to the vette. I guess this shows how far the vette has come compared to the C6 generation, not only in performance, but fit and finish, etc.

The vette has come a very long way. But that's not a fair comparison. That is comparing the new vette with the old M3. A proper comparison is to compare the C7 vette with the F82 M4.

I think with the a back seat and full trunk versus a two-seater, the comparison is not really valid. You have Vette people and you have BMW people and one will not cross shop the other. I love the BMWs; I've had two M3s. But I'm getting to a point in my life where I may not have the need for the back seat. And the C7 is looking pretty svelte to me compared to the M4 with its crazy aerodynamic concessions. But I'm still waiting to see how the M3/M4 really drive.


Cheers.

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by dmk08

It's 2014 and the car has a base MSRP of 62k+. It should have navigation standard lol. Don't get me wrong I have one on order but lets not act like the M3 is a good deal. Cause it ain't.

It's all relative. An M3 is a good deal compared to a 911. A Mustang GT with track pack or (possibly) a Corvette is a good deal compared to an M3.

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by ersin

The vette has come a very long way. But that's not a fair comparison. That is comparing the new vette with the old M3. A proper comparison is to compare the C7 vette with the F82 M4.

I think with the a back seat and full trunk versus a two-seater, the comparison is not really valid. You have Vette people and you have BMW people and one will not cross shop the other. I love the BMWs; I've had two M3s. But I'm getting to a point in my life where I may not have the need for the back seat. And the C7 is looking pretty svelte to me compared to the M4 with its crazy aerodynamic concessions. But I'm still waiting to see how the M3/M4 really drive.


Cheers.

You sound like you're cross shopping them. I certainly am, or will be once I can actually drive them (or at least read reviews of the new M3)

[ixse]

some guy in my apt complex just got grey c7. to be honest i was expecting a lot more. my wife told me it looks just like any other vette. just doesnt look special to me. im sure its fun to drive though