Pandora Car Alarm System
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-27-2015, 04:11 PM   #23
Alexschmalex
New Member
7
Rep
25
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SLO

iTrader: (0)

Makes sense why the thread was removed, that's good to know. I'm still hesitant to do the mod if it could lead to something bigger breaking. That's what i'd like someones thoughts on.

Sorry, I don't yet know if I "overrevved" the motor. The revs were definitely high. When I looked down they were in the 8K range. Hoping the dealer can answer that.

To answer the question about the JB4, I removed it before taking it to the dealer, because yes there would be an issue.

Hope to be able to share more details soon.
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2015, 04:17 PM   #24
AV1977
Private First Class
AV1977's Avatar
Cuba
62
Rep
127
Posts

Drives: 2015 F82 M4. AW,DCT, CCB
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: WV

iTrader: (0)

X

X
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2015, 07:10 PM   #25
8600RPM
Lieutenant Colonel
657
Rep
1,749
Posts

Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: AZ

iTrader: (0)

How did you get your revs to 8k?
Appreciate 1
      09-27-2015, 07:12 PM   #26
kitesurfer
Banned
kitesurfer's Avatar
No_Country
543
Rep
1,338
Posts

Drives: Round n' Round
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Paradise

iTrader: (10)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexontwowheels View Post
Makes sense why the thread was removed, that's good to know. I'm still hesitant to do the mod if it could lead to something bigger breaking. That's what i'd like someones thoughts on.

Sorry, I don't yet know if I "overrevved" the motor. The revs were definitely high. When I looked down they were in the 8K range. Hoping the dealer can answer that.

Hope to be able to share more details soon.
Sounds like a classic Money Shift $$$$$ ....hope things work out for you keep us posted

Last edited by kitesurfer; 12-07-2015 at 02:18 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2015, 07:12 PM   #27
CaryTheLabelGuy
Colonel
CaryTheLabelGuy's Avatar
United_States
2634
Rep
2,809
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Jacksonville, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8600RPM View Post
How did you get your revs to 8k?
Money shift, unless "around 8k" means 7500rpm.
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2015, 07:53 PM   #28
TPG Tuning
Lieutenant
TPG Tuning's Avatar
444
Rep
469
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 / F82 M4
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Blairsville PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitesurfer View Post
It appears the TPG Tunning Replacement Crank Hub Thread has been made inactive by the Moderators .....not sure whats going on here
Very odd

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1163531
Interesting.. any of the moderators care to explain why?
The threads were not removed for any reason listed. Here is the explanation we were given. We plan to re make the threads in the forum again soon.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2015, 08:32 PM   #29
black335i
Captain
black335i's Avatar
192
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: M 4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: tx

iTrader: (2)

How can a stock n54 hold more power than a S55 without breaking sounds like BS. If this can happen to a stock motor then I say let the motors blow and let BMW pay for new motors and upgraded parts to prevent this from reoccurring. Adding 50 whp over stock with a jb1 and causing the motor to blow also sounds like BS, sounds like scare tactics to sell parts to people that don't know any better.
__________________
2008 335i- FBO
2015 M4-exterior mods, JB4 E 85
2008 Zo6- intake
2015 Honda Accord
2020 Range Rover Sport HST
Appreciate 2
      09-27-2015, 09:42 PM   #30
JasonTPG
Private
101
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: 2013 M5
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

No one said you needed to buy this part? It's always been totally in your hands. The fact you feel obligated is your issue not ours. As stated , a million times , we had this issue. We had this issue happen to us, many times. We decided to fix the issue and offer it as an OPTION to the public. If you choose not to use it, no problem. This isn't a million dollar idea, in fact if you do the research on the parts used and machine work cost to make. Our profit is next to nothing. So before you go all high and mighty calling BS , maybe you should simply say, thank you. Thank you for providing us with an option if we so choose.

Good day
Appreciate 3
      09-27-2015, 10:57 PM   #31
guarnibl
Major
210
Rep
1,048
Posts

Drives: Depends on the day.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by black335i View Post
How can a stock n54 hold more power than a S55 without breaking sounds like BS. If this can happen to a stock motor then I say let the motors blow and let BMW pay for new motors and upgraded parts to prevent this from reoccurring. Adding 50 whp over stock with a jb1 and causing the motor to blow also sounds like BS, sounds like scare tactics to sell parts to people that don't know any better.
If it's happening, it's happening (and the explanation given certainly isn't illogical). Someone mentioned it also happening to a car PURE worked with. I think the big problem is that there's not been a lot of reports on it, so people just assume it is scare tactics. I genuinely don't think that's the case -- but I'm sure we'll see more as more and more cars see turbo swaps (which for $5k, you better believe there will be tons of them).

Let me put it another way. It isn't in TPG's best interest to use scare tactics, given their pretty solid reputation (look it up). There's no incentive for them to do that -- just isn't there. Especially not for a $400 part that might get sold to a handful of people. Let's at least all be a little logical here.
__________________
2019 Jeep Wrangler | 2018 BMW 320i | 2016 Porsche Boxster Spyder | 2009 Jeep Wrangler
gone: 2015 M4, 2015 335i, 2012 Turbo S, 2008 M3, 2004 M3, 2003 330xi
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 12:16 AM   #32
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

One thing in the TPG thread that didn't make immediate sense to me was how they explained the problem was more prevalent on a tuned engine. They said that the forces put on this part was higher on a tuned engine.

The part in question drives the camshaft chain. The forces that come into play is the inertia, friction and mechanical force needed to turn the cams and open the valves. From my understanding the cams does NOT need any more force to turn with higher power outputs. I can't really see any change here on a stock vs tuned engine...

But I could be missing something here?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 01:21 AM   #33
///F80M3
Major
///F80M3's Avatar
United_States
654
Rep
1,095
Posts

Drives: 16 AW M3
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy View Post
Money shift, unless "around 8k" means 7500rpm.
Can u explain money shift? I have hit the rev limiter when shifting up a couple times so now I'm paranoid lol
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 01:23 AM   #34
M4 CSL
Captain
M4 CSL's Avatar
Australia
229
Rep
656
Posts

Drives: ///M4
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTPG View Post

maybe you should simply say, thank you. Thank you for providing us with an option if we so choose.

Good day
I'll say it......Thank you......Thank you for providing us with an option if we so choose.
__________________
///M4 | AKRA Evo & DP's | Brembo GT BBK | MSR CAI & CP's | MPSC2 |
Suspension : | KW CS 3-way | Dinan Toe Links | GC ARWJ & End links | IND Shims | SPL Control arms & End links | aFe Bars |
Appreciate 4
      09-28-2015, 01:25 AM   #35
M4 CSL
Captain
M4 CSL's Avatar
Australia
229
Rep
656
Posts

Drives: ///M4
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///F80M3 View Post
Can u explain money shift? I have hit the rev limiter when shifting up a couple times so now I'm paranoid lol
Money shift is when the car is already revving high, and you DOWNSHIFT to a lower gear, and it goes way past redline.

You should have braked harder before downshifting. It is only associated with down shifts. There is no rev limiter on a down shift with manual transmission.

DCT is not affected as it simply will not downshift. The car will look at you as if you are a moron and say, Hell no. I'm not doing that. LOL
__________________
///M4 | AKRA Evo & DP's | Brembo GT BBK | MSR CAI & CP's | MPSC2 |
Suspension : | KW CS 3-way | Dinan Toe Links | GC ARWJ & End links | IND Shims | SPL Control arms & End links | aFe Bars |
Appreciate 2
      09-28-2015, 01:27 AM   #36
///F80M3
Major
///F80M3's Avatar
United_States
654
Rep
1,095
Posts

Drives: 16 AW M3
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4 CSL View Post
Money shift is when the car is already revving high, and you DOWNSHIFT to a lower gear, and it goes way past redline.

You should have braked harder before downshifting. It is only associated with down shifts. There is no rev limiter on a down shift with manual transmission.

DCT is not affected as it simply will not downshift. The car will look at you as if you are a moron and say, Hell no. I'm not doing that. LOL
Thank god, thanks for clarifying
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 06:09 AM   #37
hotrod2448
grand poobah
hotrod2448's Avatar
United_States
254
Rep
2,253
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, F10 535i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
One thing in the TPG thread that didn't make immediate sense to me was how they explained the problem was more prevalent on a tuned engine. They said that the forces put on this part was higher on a tuned engine.

The part in question drives the camshaft chain. The forces that come into play is the inertia, friction and mechanical force needed to turn the cams and open the valves. From my understanding the cams does NOT need any more force to turn with higher power outputs. I can't really see any change here on a stock vs tuned engine...

But I could be missing something here?
That was my thought as well, then I started thinking "Well... with more power the engine might gain revs faster allowing for a bigger moment transitioning from accel to decel..." but, you can't tell me that a tune makes the engine gain/lose RPM faster than it already does in first or second so, it doesn't really make much sense that tuned cars would see it while stock cars are less likely.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 06:57 AM   #38
AV1977
Private First Class
AV1977's Avatar
Cuba
62
Rep
127
Posts

Drives: 2015 F82 M4. AW,DCT, CCB
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: WV

iTrader: (0)

I think this is solid product for those that decide to purchase it. I think the marketing is what needs improvement. The initial posts came across as an amateurish attempt to scare everyone into believing they needed this or their s55 was going to implode the next time they started it up. I applaud these guys for coming up with a solution for a problem that appears to affect some cars, in some situations. This type of ingenuity is what makes this industry great. That said, the delivery left a bad taste in the mouth of some.
Appreciate 2
      09-28-2015, 07:03 AM   #39
black335i
Captain
black335i's Avatar
192
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: M 4
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: tx

iTrader: (2)

In the previous thread that was made, scare tactics were used even if not intended. Words from TPG should be better chosen next time. I am being logical . I have not heard of blown motors caused by this issue. I find it hard to believe even a stock motor would be affected by this. I do respect TPG for developing the part, but don't like some of the words used to market it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guarnibl View Post
If it's happening, it's happening (and the explanation given certainly isn't illogical). Someone mentioned it also happening to a car PURE worked with. I think the big problem is that there's not been a lot of reports on it, so people just assume it is scare tactics. I genuinely don't think that's the case -- but I'm sure we'll see more as more and more cars see turbo swaps (which for $5k, you better believe there will be tons of them).

Let me put it another way. It isn't in TPG's best interest to use scare tactics, given their pretty solid reputation (look it up). There's no incentive for them to do that -- just isn't there. Especially not for a $400 part that might get sold to a handful of people. Let's at least all be a little logical here.
__________________
2008 335i- FBO
2015 M4-exterior mods, JB4 E 85
2008 Zo6- intake
2015 Honda Accord
2020 Range Rover Sport HST
Appreciate 1
      09-28-2015, 07:25 AM   #40
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
That was my thought as well, then I started thinking "Well... with more power the engine might gain revs faster allowing for a bigger moment transitioning from accel to decel..." but, you can't tell me that a tune makes the engine gain/lose RPM faster than it already does in first or second so, it doesn't really make much sense that tuned cars would see it while stock cars are less likely.
I also considered this but then I thought about how quickly it gains revs when revving at a standstill in neutral...
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 09:06 AM   #41
jwzimm
Colonel
jwzimm's Avatar
United_States
687
Rep
2,770
Posts

Drives: '16 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Renton, WA

iTrader: (17)

Speaking as an engineer here I would add the following:

In many system designs, intentional weaknesses are included. This allows for a controlled failure in the event of an overload or other exceedence. In this case it appears all of the (limited) events that have resulted in this part failing have been mechanical overrevs resulting from an improper downshift. It could very well be that BMW intentionally designed this part to fail in this type of event to prevent other, more costly, damage from occurring. Beefing up the part in this case would simply transfer the damaging load to another portion of the system. Since we do not have the benefit of the knowledge that the original design engineers had we cannot be certain.

It is wonderful to have the aftermarket exploring way to improve upon the design and I applaud them for sure. Just be careful that these effort are actually needed and that they do not simply shunt the load over to another, more costly, piece in the system.
__________________
2008 Honda S2000 - Current
2016 F80 M3 - SOLD!!
2011 e92 X-Drive Coupe - SOLD!!
Appreciate 10
      09-28-2015, 10:09 AM   #42
verruckt
First Lieutenant
108
Rep
310
Posts

Drives: F82 M4, G05 X5, Gen 2 Raptor
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwzimm View Post
Speaking as an engineer here I would add the following:

In many system designs, intentional weaknesses are included. This allows for a controlled failure in the event of an overload or other exceedence. In this case it appears all of the (limited) events that have resulted in this part failing have been mechanical overrevs resulting from an improper downshift. It could very well be that BMW intentionally designed this part to fail in this type of event to prevent other, more costly, damage from occurring. Beefing up the part in this case would simply transfer the damaging load to another portion of the system. Since we do not have the benefit of the knowledge that the original design engineers had we cannot be certain.

It is wonderful to have the aftermarket exploring way to improve upon the design and I applaud them for sure. Just be careful that these effort are actually needed and that they do not simply shunt the load over to another, more costly, piece in the system.
Bingo
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 10:10 AM   #43
Daft
Major
Daft's Avatar
Canada
384
Rep
1,201
Posts

Drives: 2021 M2C
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2003 BMW M3  [10.00]
2011 BMW M3  [9.71]
Has this piece in question ever failed on a DCT car?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2015, 10:16 AM   #44
pikkagtr
Go Spurs Go
pikkagtr's Avatar
United_States
3847
Rep
2,867
Posts

Drives: 2022 GR Zupra
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (-1)

Well in this thread designed to document failures , it turned into a debate, an engineering lesson but I has yet to bear fruit of anyone coming on and saying they did have this failure .
So far it's still zero count afaik
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST