KW Dynamic Dampening Control (DDC) Review/Thoughts

[SRC]

Anyone know what the spring rates are for the ZCP and the KW DDC?
That should shed some light on stiffness comparisons between the two systems by having some objective data.

Subjective information posted thus far is hard to tell for sure, some info suggest a degree of compliance can be had (less bobble headedness, more tolerable on a rough road) switching to the KW DDC setup while other info suggests a stiffer ride (less lean, higher rebound damping). I realize more rebound damping may not translate into a stiffer ride, more controlled ride at speed yes. So rebound damping is not in view with respect to comfort while on the street.

In my mind more compression damping is stiffer and higher spring rates are stiffer. Any user comments on this are MUCH appreciated. There is little to know data on this characterization.

[SRC]

Just found this in the Sticky for Spring and Coilovers...

OEM spring rates for the F80/F82 is 185 lb/ft Front, 575 lb/ft Rear
OEM COMPETITION PACK spring rates for the F80/F82 is 198 lbs/ft Front, 685 lbs/ft Rear

[SRC]

lb/ft is wrong, should be lb/in.
Someone should update the Sticky

[clutchdj]

The rates for the rear linear springs is 685Lbs/in and for the progressive front springs it is estimated a round 228Lbs/in. KW DDC

[SRC]

Thank you, good stuff. Nice to see some decent rates on this system. Now I'm off to get an install quote.

[THEROK]

One of the biggest reasons why M cars are king to this very day is because important manufacturers like KW goes on one of their internet boards and posts! Viable aftermarket options for other cars in this class are sparse.

I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your new KW product. I actually didn't find the ride on my '18 ZCP harsh at all in any way shape or form (20" OEM Fuchs). I'm currently enjoying the KW recommended V3 settings for the past 4K miles on public roads. Set it and forget it is what I wanted. Glad to hear there is a solid alternative for those who want to retain adjustabilty.

Thanks for posting!

[humpday]

Any reviews on the track? All reviews on the forum and online seem to be just DD or driving around canyons and such.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by humpday

Any reviews on the track? All reviews on the forum and online seem to be just DD or driving around canyons and such.

Sadly no. You can definitely track but if you are a constant tracker I would suggest doing something dedicated to it like Clubsport.

[clode777]

Originally Posted by Arcades

First of all, thanks to AutoTalent and Justin.AutoTalent for the KW DDC & Install.

I only have the KW DDC on for a few weeks, but since my M3 isn’t my daily, didn’t have a lot of mileage yet. I’m probably only at around 250ish miles on it. However, I have a pretty good idea of how the car rides so I’ll put my thoughts down for those of you who are curious of this is worth it or not. One of the reason why I got KW DDC over the springs are a long-term solution, as well as wanting a better quality in general. That isn’t saying the OEM ZCP suspension was bad (it wasn’t, it was good actually) but you shouldn’t do just springs as a long-term thing, it isn’t healthy for your stock suspensions as it isn’t supposed to be lowered. I, like a lot of us, wanted to keep our EDC intact but have a better solution than just springs. My original 2015 M4 had KW HAS on, and one of the things I found most annoying during long drives or roads with a lot of bumps, was how floaty the car was on rebound. Original Suspension (2015 F8x) were obvious with the rebound, as that was the primary problem. ZCP fixed a lot of that problem but the car gets stiff, without a lot of compromise.

After the DDC has been put on, one thing I noticed almost immediately when I was driving home was how planted the car was, and I was able to feel the road. ZCP Suspension is stiff and yeah you can somewhat feel connected to the road but probably because the suspension is stiff, you mainly just rattle a little. You don’t really feel the car absorb and rebound from the road. It is a very hard thing to describe until you drive the car and feel that difference. This is a different thing from track, as having a stiff suspension is mainly a plus for track but it is a bit of a con when it comes to just daily driving. Not all of us wants to be a bobblehead when we drive or hear our car rattle around (considering how BMW builds the F8x chassis and all of that). KW DDC more or less eliminates the body roll enough where I am happy with it. Obviously I want some body roll still but not that much as stock.

The feeling of driving in comfort but, feeling what the road is w/o that bobblehead feeling, is something I never truly knew or was able to enjoy until I have had DDC on. The roads where I live is good for a lot of places, until you get further down into San Gabriel Valley where the roads get uneven. So, feeling the car absorb, recover almost immediately without upsetting the car or the passengers in Comfort is something I’m really able to enjoy now. How many of us can say driving in Comfort is fun? For me at the very least, I can. Yes, Comfort is stiffer by a certain degree but you probably won’t notice unless you are super picky like I am.

The other mode I tend to drive a lot in happens to be Sport. I avoid Sport+ because of my previous experience with Sport+ in my 2015 M4 (it wasn’t too fun). Anyway, in Sport mode, it is most definitely stiffer but, again, not uncomfortable. Unlike Comfort (which I use generally for regular street, non-freeway use) you definitely will get bumped around a little bit, you’ll get that slight bobblehead feeling but using it as more of a freeway, you probably won’t get too much of that. Unless you like driving on rough streets with it, but hey I’m not judging Sport is pretty much the right amount of stiffness for me currently, at least for the stiffness I would generally prefer. I cannot really say much regarding Sport+ since I don’t do that mode often.

One of the primary reasons why I wanted to do KW DDC in the first place is I wanted full coilovers that improved on OEM ride quality w/o losing the EDC part of the car. None of us had an option until all the way now. Considering Bilstein took 3 years since they announced their Damptronics to finally release it. (Or it seems like they yet again pushed it back… lol). I can’t say I don’t trust Bilstein but I much prefer KW. When KW came out with their DDC, I more or less confirmed to get it over having traditional Springs only option like OEM M-Performance HAS kit. My current stance is about 1 finger clearance front and back, same like my old setup with KW HAS but I might need to drop the front just slightly. I’m picky.

I’m very happy with my first full coilover setup. I always wanted KW V3 but never did it because I didn’t want to lose the ability to adjust. Now that I finally got that (more or less) I can see why people say good things regarding KW V3s. The DDC’s sit pretty low from the get go but it isn’t so much where you are SOO low you are tucking in your tires. I don’t like that look. There is enough adjustment that I am happy with, hell I could have probably left it at the height KW sent with and be happy with it. I don’t think AutoTalent adjusted it that much honestly.

Is it worth the slightly more pricetag over KW V3, Bilstein PSS, or even JRZ? I think it is, considering what you are getting. But price is a different calling to everyone.

Cheers.

P.S. Also, would you KEEP waiting for Bilstein to release their Damptronics for us in the States? It's literally been 3 years lol.

i just installed the kw ddc for my f80.
but i cant feel remarkable difference between each mode.
comfort and sport mode's feeling is almost same. even in sport plus mode, it is so ambiguous. what about you? can you feel the noticeable difference at each driving mode?

[clode777]

Originally Posted by Brickologic

Camber plates don't make any sense if you ride your car daily (tyre wear, ...) and not on the track. Our DDC P&P coilover kit is a kit to drive every day with a smile. Thats also the reason we use progressive springs.

If you want to go on a racetrack opt for KW Clubsport 3-way with camber plates.

There isn't any suspension in the universe what can do everything, but the marketing dudes always telling this kind of fairytales.

can u please check the PM?

[Alvinized52]

Whats the default drop height on these? And how much lower can it go?

[clode777]

Originally Posted by Alvinized52

Whats the default drop height on these? And how much lower can it go?

Min 15, max 40mm

[Alvinized52]

Originally Posted by clode777

Min 15, max 40mm

thanks! But my question was what's the default preset height that it comes in at from factory??!??

[Brickologic]

No preset height. You should dial the level of lowering between 15 - 40 mm on the thread by your own, like they wrote in the manual.

Originally Posted by Alvinized52

thanks! But my question was what's the default preset height that it comes in at from factory??!??

[PayamFSU]

So we need to have camber plates made for these ? Does KW not offer their own?

[Brickologic]

You have progressive springs on a ddc kit.

Why you want camber plates?

For Stance or for trackdays? Like Arcades already wrote for trackdays take a 3-way adjustable shock with linear springs...

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

So we need to have camber plates made for these ? Does KW not offer their own?

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by Alvinized52

thanks! But my question was what's the default preset height that it comes in at from factory??!??

It's adjustable. Out the box it sits about 1 finger gap front and rear, most people typically adjust it higher or lower after install at least once or twice then take it off the lift

[Alvinized52]

Originally Posted by Justin.AutoTalent

It's adjustable. Out the box it sits about 1 finger gap front and rear, most people typically adjust it higher or lower after install at least once or twice then take it off the lift

Thanks Justin.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by Brickologic

You have progressive springs on a ddc kit.

Why you want camber plates?

For Stance or for trackdays? Like Arcades already wrote for trackdays take a 3-way adjustable shock with linear springs...

What are your thoughts on my needs:

There are people like me who who go tracking about 2-3 times a year, but the vehicle is also our main daily driver. I also go drive spiritedly through the canyons quite a bit. So comfort is paramount as well as a decent amount of handling capabilities. Fun is more important than lap times for me. I’m assuming this is why people like me would want camber plates added to their oem suspension. With CP and a good alignment, It is a cost effective way to get better handling out of the car. Yet like everyone on this board, we always want more, but once again, being at an age where sensibilities rules, daily comfort is a need.

Would the KW DDC match my profile more or would the club sport coilovers? I was considering going the camber plate route, but am now considering coils. Retaining EDC would be nice as well, thus the DDC.

[Chris N]

Subscribed.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Brickologic

You have progressive springs on a ddc kit.

Why you want camber plates?

For Stance or for trackdays? Like Arcades already wrote for trackdays take a 3-way adjustable shock with linear springs...

I track the car 4-5 times a year (8-10 days). At the track I’m fairly intense, and have special brake pads and separate wheels and tires (but not slicks).

In order to preserve the life of the tires at the track, I had to install camber plates, I’m running at around -2.5 degrees (all year round). This yields acceptable front tire wear on track, and acceptable front tire wear on the street as well.

So this is a very typical use case for camber plates on a car like the F80.


Now I understand the DDC has progressive springs which are not ideal for on-track response and predictable behavior. But are there any other reasons for not putting a camber plate with your DDC suspension?

[spr]

Wow so kw ddc have progressive springs? looks like I'll go bilstein. Anyone know if the bmw has m sport coilovers are also progressive? I ask as I have those with a cs tune and it still is under damped and rolls like a pig. I hate the feel of a progressive spring. It takes too long to react and load, etc. Its unpredictable on the track and makes the car feel like a marshmellow.