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      09-03-2020, 02:39 PM   #23
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Great thread, plenty of great info
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      09-03-2020, 04:17 PM   #24
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Thanks for all of the information in detail regarding your modifications. For my track- focused M2, I am running camber plates in front and a Ohlins R&T set up. We have the same suspension and obviously some difference in weight - I zeroed the toe at the rear and running about 1.5 degrees neg camber. This settled the car down significantly under high-speed braking prior to turn-in. Running -2.0 negative camber up front. Handling is quite neutral on R compound tires. Could use another -1 degree up front, but I drive the car on the street, also

I'm jealous of your brakes!
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      09-03-2020, 04:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Thanks for all of the information in detail regarding your modifications. For my track- focused M2, I am running camber plates in front and a Ohlins R&T set up. We have the same suspension and obviously some difference in weight - I zeroed the toe at the rear and running about 1.5 degrees neg camber. This settled the car down significantly under high-speed braking prior to turn-in. Running -2.0 negative camber up front. Handling is quite neutral on R compound tires. Could use another -1 degree up front, but I drive the car on the street, also

I'm jealous of your brakes!
You must mean zero toe up front? Our cars toe out in the rear slightly under heavy braking. So the rear will feel darty with zero toe. I believe almost every car out there runs some amount of rear toe. Miata's run maybe 1/16" and heavy horsepower big tire cars might run 1/4" or more.
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      09-03-2020, 09:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Thanks for all of the information in detail regarding your modifications. For my track- focused M2, I am running camber plates in front and a Ohlins R&T set up. We have the same suspension and obviously some difference in weight - I zeroed the toe at the rear and running about 1.5 degrees neg camber. This settled the car down significantly under high-speed braking prior to turn-in. Running -2.0 negative camber up front. Handling is quite neutral on R compound tires. Could use another -1 degree up front, but I drive the car on the street, also

I'm jealous of your brakes!
Just curious which half cage and rear seat delete is that?

Thanks
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      09-03-2020, 11:08 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Thanks for all of the information in detail regarding your modifications. For my track- focused M2, I am running camber plates in front and a Ohlins R&T set up. We have the same suspension and obviously some difference in weight - I zeroed the toe at the rear and running about 1.5 degrees neg camber. This settled the car down significantly under high-speed braking prior to turn-in. Running -2.0 negative camber up front. Handling is quite neutral on R compound tires. Could use another -1 degree up front, but I drive the car on the street, also

I'm jealous of your brakes!
Just curious which half cage and rear seat delete is that?

Thanks
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      09-04-2020, 07:31 AM   #28
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Mark Mcmahan at McMahan Autosport in Akron, OH. Original crew member of TC Kline Racing And now greatest cage builder east of the Mississippi. The goal was a completely removable system with my wife’s safety in mind. The spreader plates off the main hoop are the size of the entire floor area in the rear. The seat delete or rear bulkhead is so simple yet so perfect. The fit is within 1mm of everything around it.

He normally does full on race cages in gutted cars but has done some cars with full cages and full interiors.
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      09-04-2020, 04:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Thanks for all of the information in detail regarding your modifications. For my track- focused M2, I am running camber plates in front and a Ohlins R&T set up. We have the same suspension and obviously some difference in weight - I zeroed the toe at the rear and running about 1.5 degrees neg camber. This settled the car down significantly under high-speed braking prior to turn-in. Running -2.0 negative camber up front. Handling is quite neutral on R compound tires. Could use another -1 degree up front, but I drive the car on the street, also

I'm jealous of your brakes!
You must mean zero toe up front? Our cars toe out in the rear slightly under heavy braking. So the rear will feel darty with zero toe. I believe almost every car out there runs some amount of rear toe. Miata's run maybe 1/16" and heavy horsepower big tire cars might run 1/4" or more.
Just pulled-up my alignment specs. Dialed almost all the toe from the rear. Car is quite stable on turn-in, if a little lively, which is my preference in the M2.
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      09-04-2020, 07:06 PM   #30
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Well, if you were even more toed out before, than closer to zero would feel better. I’d still recommend trying toe in, as in the max BMW recommenced toe in. I think you’ll feel that you can get on the gas sooner coming out of corners and harder with more confidence.
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      09-05-2020, 02:18 AM   #31
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spring rates of 350fr/600rr... that's pretty soft for a track car with the tires you're running.
I would run 500-600fr/800-900rr with the setup you have... although I doubt those konis could handle it without revalving.
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      09-05-2020, 07:51 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehifi View Post
spring rates of 350fr/600rr... that's pretty soft for a track car with the tires you're running.
I would run 500-600fr/800-900rr with the setup you have... although I doubt those konis could handle it without revalving.
We also feel a stiffer car would inspire confidence, however, TC Kline is prettty adamant that softer is the way to go. He might know a thing or two having an FIA/IMSA racing career, then moving on as a factory backed team owner, all before getting into the suspension parts business.

The car has seen track times at NCM down to 2:20 on 20+ heat cycle Toyo RR's with this setup. And it is repeatable with the wifey, myself, and our setup guy/ driving coach all being able to repeat personal bests quite easily.

Our goal was to make a car easy to drive and most importantly repeatable. I feel like it would be better to explore new tracks with a setup like this before going for all out best times. Until I see another F8X with a full interior and stock engine run lap times any quicker, who am I to say the setup needs to change. There is an M2 with tune, aero, DH scrubs, Ohlins R&T. Best time is 2:19... but repeatable? No! Always making damper adjustments, wing adjustments, with lap times all over the map. Some can be attributed to the driver having a bad day, but I think the car and setup itself has something to do with that.

Development work and track time must account for something.

Last edited by bimmerboyE92; 09-05-2020 at 08:00 AM..
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      09-17-2020, 05:43 PM   #33
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So I did a thing. Why not?

285/645-18 and 305/660-18 Pirelli DH Scrubs. Got them from JB Racing Tires. These sizes kinda keep the height stagger the same although the tires are shorter than stock.

Not really sure what to expect. Softened up the front bar per TC Kline and ran wife and I beat our best times in this car on RE71Rs. Not sure if the Toyo's are really all that. Or maybe it was the bar. So anyways, gonna try these.

FF62B4E9-5D3C-4144-A27C-8B284D06E0EF by D S, on Flickr
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      10-01-2020, 06:10 AM   #34
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If anyone is interested, here is a Blackstone report. The oil was Redline10w40 and had 4 track days on it (16 sessions). No street miles.

Redline has some very high moly and zinc additives. The most shocking number is the silicon. Running OEM paper air filters. And after 4 track days, there is more contaminant than a motor that has seen 4900 total miles.

f80blkstn by D S, on Flickr

Last edited by bimmerboyE92; 10-01-2020 at 06:26 AM..
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      10-29-2020, 07:10 PM   #35
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So, about those Pirelli's... after going through 2 sets of Toyo RRs, the Pirelli's finally made there way on. All I have to say is OMG! The AP brakes with DTC70 pads have finally met there match. On RE71Rs, the brakes would easily over power them, on Toyo RRs, it was a more even match up. But against the Pirelli's, the APs actually have to work a bit. Ambient temp on test day was 55 deg F and cloudy. The tires have grip for days! And are super consistent. My wife dropped 3 seconds from her personal best and was able to do so for 4 laps in a row. 3 laps being within 0.1 sec of one another.

So if you're not already on these tires, stop, do not pass go, get some!

8DDB58D7-F6F3-4C74-ABEE-F2C70FCADE0E by D S, on Flickr
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      01-03-2021, 05:52 PM   #36
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Number cards have got to be worth a couple of seconds a lap???

91686AA9-54EB-46BB-A236-3E2F73709505 by D S, on Flickr

Last edited by bimmerboyE92; 01-03-2021 at 06:19 PM..
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      01-03-2021, 05:57 PM   #37
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Also installed the KMP wheel. Wow!.. much better feel. Not so thick and the smaller diameter is nice.

But the install instructions are not that great. I didn't think we had to wire in the DTC switch... but if you don't you will get a cruise control malfunction. I also think this is tied into the airbag malfuction I got as well. Need to download ESYS and clear the airbag fault. Hopefully the resistor they give you actually works.

And getting the DCT buttons out was a pain. You have to stick you finger under it and push in a tab while trying to pull up. The tab will open up even more if you just try to pull up so you have to press (painfully) and pull simultaneously.

The pain is going to be worth it come track season!

9E684C69-797F-4D63-B2E2-5B74C3834BF9 by D S, on Flickr

Last edited by bimmerboyE92; 01-03-2021 at 06:19 PM..
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      01-03-2021, 06:25 PM   #38
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Great thread, keep it coming! Thank you sharing this information!
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      01-03-2021, 09:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
Number cards have got to be worth a couple of seconds a lap???

91686AA9-54EB-46BB-A236-3E2F73709505 by D S, on Flickr
What happened to your apex wheels and why go back to the 513m?
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      01-03-2021, 09:10 PM   #40
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What happened to your apex wheels and why go back to the 513m?
They're just rollers for winter storage. Have tires dated 2014 on them... LOL
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      01-04-2021, 07:54 PM   #41
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Dear KMP, why have a plug and play steering wheel solution with a "resistor bridge" in place of the airbag when you still get the following driver airbag malfunctions? Thank goodness we have Alex @ Alpine MSS

39F4CD64-B26D-4516-9817-D4985713E2DF by D S, on Flickr

Also, why make me unplug 6 wires out of a 6 pin connector just to re-use it for 1 wire in the wheel? Why not just give me a new yellow plastic connector? Posting this photo here in case I ever have to reverse it.

D461AFD2-5A86-4099-96F3-151B497100F1 by D S, on Flickr
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      03-17-2021, 09:19 AM   #42
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In preparation for the start of the season... I went to install new pads. Now mind you, this is the first set of pads we've actually put wear on. The first set of Ferodo's we didn't like the amount of pedal pressure so those came off after a few sessions.

Needless to say, I was disappointed with the pad taper I found... come on, these are AP calipers right? Well, this was the first corner I took apart, all other corners had maybe 1mm of taper.

Root cause? Both front calipers were left hand calipers. Hard to tell unless you look at the part number or study the piston sizes. Both of which I am aware of now but not when I first installed.

A few emails to AP Racing a new right hand caliper was in my hands 2 days later.

Hopefully this solves alot of the pull and quirks of the car under breaking. Maybe I can take some of the rear toe back out. Just driving on a cold day with bald RE71Rs on track the car feels so much more planted and sure under braking.

PSA... check your caliper part numbers. the 3S is left hand and 2S is right hand. Arrows should be pointing to the sky when installed. Small piston is the first piston as the wheel rotates. Don't trust the part numbers and/or wording on the boxes. I had put each box at each corner of the car and compared the labels and the part numbers were all different so I figured I'd be good. Well, the right front caliper the shipping box and inside boxes were labeled correctly but the caliper itself was the wrong one.
F9528AEB-D7B1-47AF-B273-0E243DAF0940 by D S, on Flickr

Large piston is the first in the wheel rotation which is wrong...

369C676D-8990-402C-BA58-9DCF6C6D8E16 by D S, on Flickr

Correct right hand front caliper is a 2S.

11F32B37-6AF4-40C5-92B4-86BB20A35A6E by D S, on Flickr
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      03-18-2021, 11:48 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92 View Post
In preparation for the start of the season... I went to install new pads. Now mind you, this is the first set of pads we've actually put wear on. The first set of Ferodo's we didn't like the amount of pedal pressure so those came off after a few sessions.

Needless to say, I was disappointed with the pad taper I found... come on, these are AP calipers right? Well, this was the first corner I took apart, all other corners had maybe 1mm of taper.

Root cause? Both front calipers were left hand calipers. Hard to tell unless you look at the part number or study the piston sizes. Both of which I am aware of now but not when I first installed.

A few emails to AP Racing a new right hand caliper was in my hands 2 days later.

Hopefully this solves alot of the pull and quirks of the car under breaking. Maybe I can take some of the rear toe back out. Just driving on a cold day with bald RE71Rs on track the car feels so much more planted and sure under braking.

PSA... check your caliper part numbers. the 3S is left hand and 2S is right hand. Arrows should be pointing to the sky when installed. Small piston is the first piston as the wheel rotates. Don't trust the part numbers and/or wording on the boxes. I had put each box at each corner of the car and compared the labels and the part numbers were all different so I figured I'd be good. Well, the right front caliper the shipping box and inside boxes were labeled correctly but the caliper itself was the wrong one.
[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...107ccdc0_c.jpg[/img]F9528AEB-D7B1-47AF-B273-0E243DAF0940 by D S, on Flickr

Large piston is the first in the wheel rotation which is wrong...

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...14f8c16e_c.jpg[/img]369C676D-8990-402C-BA58-9DCF6C6D8E16 by D S, on Flickr

Correct right hand front caliper is a 2S.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7a13f858_c.jpg[/img]11F32B37-6AF4-40C5-92B4-86BB20A35A6E by D S, on Flickr
Nice catch. I never would've thought this would happen. Good on AP for rectifying.
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      03-18-2021, 01:08 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x.shell View Post
Nice catch. I never would've thought this would happen. Good on AP for rectifying.
AP didn't believe me at first, I couldn't believe it either.

It doesn't help when the primary driver of the car can only describe a car with 3 different words:

"Loose" - can mean oversteer, can mean lack of grip (heat cycled out tires), can mean dampers not set as before, can mean understeer, can also mean she's just not in the mood drive
"Pulls" - can mean alignment is off, can mean sway bar end link completely broke, can mean caliper is the wrong one!, can mean TPMS screen shows tires are 0.5psi off but she can feel it, can also mean she's just not in the mood to drive
"Good" - this means don't touch anything and go drive your car so I can chase you down and bully you with double the hp

Last edited by bimmerboyE92; 03-18-2021 at 01:25 PM..
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