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      10-12-2020, 11:24 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie View Post
Correct, there was not much data provided by manufacturers except perhaps Mishi, but owners dynos always showed similar results. Unless you're upgrading for reliability or heavy track use, OEM cooler is on par or better for just spirited driving. Would be interesting to see results with just the upgraded heat exchanger.
I agree, I am not even bashing CSF's products, I think they make good stuff. Just can't stand their empty promises and attitude/marketing they have towards it. Plenty of people with more money than brains fall prey to it.
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      10-12-2020, 12:52 PM   #68
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I've seen at least 3 ( including this current test) were this csf lost 8 to 11 hp...compared to stock
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      10-12-2020, 04:15 PM   #69
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Just installed my new Mishimoto cooler. I'll tell you - I'm stupid picky when it comes to welding and material quality. This thing is top notch and priced better than the CSF one.
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      10-12-2020, 04:28 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwlmr99 View Post
I've seen at least 3 ( including this current test) were this csf lost 8 to 11 hp...compared to stock
You can see 8hp differences on the same dyno with different ambient temps on different days. Csf makes a good product. .
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      10-12-2020, 04:59 PM   #71
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CSF makes a good product in my experience. One other option that not many people on here mention is Garrett. They have data on there cooler showing that the stock unit is very efficient. Garrett is a Tier one OE supplier as well.

I recently had mine installed along with some Eventuri carbon charge air pipes. I should also mention that I have the Dinan heat exchanger on my car.

https://www.garrettmotion.com/racing...e-intercooler/

https://frontstreet.media/2020/10/07...-charge-pipes/
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      10-12-2020, 07:35 PM   #72
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If my stock charge cooler taps out post warranty, this is the only aftermarket unit touching my S55.

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      10-12-2020, 07:58 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by THEROK View Post
If my stock charge cooler taps out post warranty, this is the only aftermarket unit touching my S55.

My god, that is beautiful.
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      10-12-2020, 08:28 PM   #74
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4k for the C&R BW top mount?!?! Sheesh!
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      10-13-2020, 12:15 AM   #75
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I agree that C&R is pretty piece, but $4K is pretty damn expensive too. I'm sorry but I'd only buy C&R if I was an endurance racer. Otherwise that $4K buys you a top shelf Wagner TMIC plus their large and small FMIC kit (with the air duct too).
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      10-13-2020, 04:30 AM   #76
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4k for the C&R BW top mount?!?! Sheesh!
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      10-22-2020, 01:53 PM   #77
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Is there any data on the C and R intercooler? I have zero qualms with the stock cooling but love to tinker and feel cool with Gucci parts.
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      11-01-2020, 10:24 AM   #78
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I have a dumb question, and I’m sure someone here will acknowledge that it’s a dumb question. A few people have kind of alluded to this, but maybe not fully addressed. Since the CSF has higher volume capacity than stock, doesn’t it require more air flow to push through the unit to reach any full benefit? If the stock unit is simply swapped out and replaced with the CSF and then run on the Dyno for comparison, is it really a fair comparison? Was the tune on the car customized for the setup with the stock unit? If an OTS tune, was that developed with the stock unit installed? Wouldn’t the better comparison be to optimize the tune for the stock unit, run on the Dyno, swap out for the CSF unit and then optimize the tune for that unit and re-run on the Dyno again with hopefully similar climate conditions and then compare? I guess that was more than one dumb question...sorry!
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      11-01-2020, 10:37 AM   #79
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There’s nothing in the tune to do with a better intercooler. It either works or it doesn’t.
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      11-01-2020, 11:12 AM   #80
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@gdawgg
To add to landonvan all the map (stock or tune) cares about is the IAT produced by the TMIC and the outgoing pressure at the manifold, not TMIC flow, volume or such (but those things are relevant).

You do hit on the scientific points of increased liquid/air volume versus pressure/flow versus fluid/heat dynamics. Maybe that's why top shelf TMICs use polished tube/fin (Wagner comp) or bar/plate+turbulence (CR)...to increase heat transfer, since the bigger volume slows down the flow in the bigger core.
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      11-01-2020, 03:08 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatLyfe View Post
Tommy, what charge pipes are you using with your Mishimoto cooler?
ER charge pipes. Great fit
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      12-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #82
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same result with WAGNER IC, after installation I lost 12HP and 19NM
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      12-25-2020, 12:26 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne_RAY View Post
same result with WAGNER IC, after installation I lost 12HP and 19NM
That's super surprising on what I've seen from their reviews and dynos. When my socker goes, I was going to go that route. Maybe I'll look more into the mishimoto.
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      12-25-2020, 03:09 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
Maybe I'll look more into the mishimoto.
Better order now, you might it have by the time the stock one goes. I ordered mine a month ago, I have at least 2-3 more weeks before it ships.
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      12-26-2020, 01:15 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
That's super surprising on what I've seen from their reviews and dynos. When my socker goes, I was going to go that route. Maybe I'll look more into the mishimoto.
here are numbers of my stock M3CS vs after installation of WARNER IC

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19T_...ew?usp=sharing
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      12-26-2020, 06:37 AM   #86
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I wonder about all this stuff sometimes..... I need to get over to my buddies shop and take a look at his M4 GT4 race cars and see what they run in different places. I am sure they got regulations on what they are allowed to bolt on and run in the WRL & Trans Am series but I don't remember seeing any couple grand intercoolers under them hoods and I would think they operate in the most extreme conditions. Now of course they probably are not making over 450 hp or so but.......

Still makes me wonder sometimes
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      12-26-2020, 08:10 AM   #87
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What needs to be done is a direct IAT temperature comparison between the stock charge cooler and aftermarket charge cooler. Sure horsepower figures are great, and in the aftermarket world increased HP claims sell products. Personally though, without solid data to back up a products claims, it's all snake oil.

CSF has proven this fact: no hard data, but their claim of increased HP sells units. The fact that they're more concerned with sales over proven results however speaks volumes.

Until IAT temperature comparisons are made in a controlled environment, proving a statistically significant efficacy of the claims, I wouldn't even consider putting it on my vehicle.

"A fool and his money are soon parted", and there are plenty of manufactures out there just looking for suckers.
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      12-26-2020, 09:57 AM   #88
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... another csf truth moment , In German language
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