July 2014 BBC Top Gear - BMW M4 vs. C7 Corvette Stingray

[ss134]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Fair points all around. I guess what jumps out at me about the F8x reviews is the consistent impression that the S55, while definitely impressive and even arguably worthy of an M3/4, isn't a stand-out feature of the car -- whereas the S65 was seen as an absolute jewel that delivered the wow and fun factors in spades. So while it wouldn't be fair at all to say that F8x M3/4 buyers are doomed to a mediocre engine, it appears that for all of its increased efficiency and more usable torque, the S55 just won't be as fun. But maybe the reduced weight, e-diff, and techno toys can help offset that.

My general prediction is that people coming from the E46 M3 won't have a problem with the engine at all (though the difference in steering feel will be more pronounced, it seems), but people coming from the E9x will have mixed impressions -- likely more so than people going from the E6x M5/6 to the F1x since those cars are more GT cars in the first place and they at least still have a V8 this generation.

Some very good points and I agree. I pick my car up next week and after owning ( and loving) both of my E90 M3s I am intrigued as to how the S55 will stack up in terms of fun to the S65.
I believe there will be trade offs but 550nm can also be fun but in a different way. Will be interesting to compare these two motors with such different characteristics and personalities. My guess is that some will actually prefer the new motor and some will prefer the old. I'll make up my mind once I've driven the new car.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The Stingray is an awesome car. It looks fantastic, sounds right and the interior is finally a solid representation of what America can do if it tries. I am not impressed by the performance however... it like the M3 dynos low 400s and runs in the 1/4 at near equal numbers. At that point; whats the idea behind having the Vette in the 1st place when for the same price I can have a 4 door luxury saloon that with a tune performs even way better. Also, I am a fan of turbo motors.

With the Vette, the Z06 will be the way to go but then we are talking about a different level of performance and price.

The C7 destroys everything else in its price range at the track , that's its purpose . A bone stock C7 Z51 vette with just tires and aero set a class record at my local track , besting a professional drivers tone in a One lap of America winning modded GTR by 3 seconds in a 1:1 x lap . 1:12 vs 1:15 is an eternity . The C7 beat the M4 at Hockenhiem by 1.3 seconds on an even shorter track which means it would diss spear from view during a 20 min HPDE session .

[dawgdog]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The Stingray is an awesome car. It looks fantastic, sounds right and the interior is finally a solid representation of what America can do if it tries. I am not impressed by the performance however... it like the M3 dynos low 400s and runs in the 1/4 at near equal numbers. At that point; whats the idea behind having the Vette in the 1st place when for the same price I can have a 4 door luxury saloon that with a tune performs even way better. Also, I am a fan of turbo motors.

With the Vette, the Z06 will be the way to go but then we are talking about a different level of performance and price.

Exactly. What other car can I get with 4 doors at this price point with so much luxury, performance, huge trunk etc that you can take on the track and be competitive? If it is just what is the fastest car on track then get the Corvette or the GTR. Cannot see myself daily driving either of those cars.

[FogCityM3]

Not entirely surprising, when you pit a powerful N/A car against a Turbo car, most will prefer the N/A one when they have roughly the same HP. Probably the only place where isn’t the case is Porsche and maybe now with the S55. Granted if you’re used to turbos then the S55 and Porsche Turbo engines offer quite a bit more than a standard all boost turbo torque monster, so would be a very big upgrade. Reminds me of the Edmunds comparo with an E92 M3 Lime Rock and the Stingray. The E92 M3 performed rather poorly (LC didn’t work at all) in a straight line, and metrics wise it was no contest with the ‘Vette trouncing it, but the reviewers narrowly chose the M3 for its character, engine, refinement, and everyday usability. A lot of reviewers who have seen it all do have an N/A bias all things being equal, same with race drivers and teams (even Ferrari is griping about the TC engines in F-1), again all things being equal. Many people though are so used to forced induction engines that a big torque punch, huge power bump more than make up for a little lag and less linear power delivery, which is has little relevance on the street.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Not entirely surprising, when you pit a powerful N/A car against a Turbo car, most will prefer the N/A one when they have roughly the same HP. Probably the only place where isn’t the case is Porsche and maybe now with the S55. Granted if you’re used to turbos then the S55 and Porsche Turbo engines offer quite a bit more than a standard all boost turbo torque monster, so would be a very big upgrade. Reminds me of the Edmunds comparo with an E92 M3 Lime Rock and the Stingray. The E92 M3 performed rather poorly (LC didn’t work at all) in a straight line, and metrics wise it was no contest with the ‘Vette trouncing it, but the reviewers narrowly chose the M3 for its character, engine, refinement, and everyday usability. A lot of reviewers who have seen it all do have an N/A bias all things being equal, same with race drivers and teams (even Ferrari is griping about the TC engines in F-1), again all things being equal. Many people though are so used to forced induction engines that a big torque punch, huge power bump more than make up for a little lag and less linear power delivery, which is has little relevance on the street.

I must be different for 2 reasons...

The turbo engine will still almost universally make more TQ even lower in the RPM range and it will be more fuel efficient. That 2 fold combo is huge.

[BimmerBoomer]

I was disappointed reading in Road & Track that the turbo lag was intrusive with the manual transmission. Perhaps the DSG is better.

[USE Z4S]

Originally Posted by chalstrad110

In the OP, the journalist says that no one stood up for the M4, after the Vette "murdered" it, but he contradicts himself earlier when he says the M4 was the sources of many heated debates and arguments? This whole article is weird.

This jumped out at me as well, as being highly contradictory.

Interesting article, and I would not try to take away any praise from the C7, truly a fantastic car by all accounts.

Still going to hold fast and buy my M4 though.

[Wes Howell]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I must be different for 2 reasons...

The turbo engine will still almost universally make more TQ even lower in the RPM range and it will be more fuel efficient. That 2 fold combo is huge.

+1

[FogCityM3]

#3, you don't track?

Originally Posted by ASAP

I must be different for 2 reasons...

The turbo engine will still almost universally make more TQ even lower in the RPM range and it will be more fuel efficient. That 2 fold combo is huge.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

#3, you don't track?

How often and how serious is a more valid question.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The turbo engine will still almost universally make more TQ even lower in the RPM range and it will be more fuel efficient. That 2 fold combo is huge.

That's where the Z06 comes in. 457 lb-ft. at about 1,100 RPM.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

That's where the Z06 comes in. 457 lb-ft. at about 1,100 RPM.

Sure... if you dont mind running around with a gas guzzling 7.0L V8. Also, I for one could never DD a car like the Z06. Either way, this is a car in another power, price and weight league so it's not comparable.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Sure... if you dont mind running around with a gas guzzling 7.0L V8. Also, I for one could never DD a car like the Z06. Either way, this is a car in another power, price and weight league so it's not comparable.

You aren't up to date are you.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Sure... if you dont mind running around with a gas guzzling 7.0L V8. Also, I for one could never DD a car like the Z06. Either way, this is a car in another power, price and weight league so it's not comparable.

It's a 6.2, and the current ZR1 is only a few MPG off the M4 (20 vs. 17 MPG combined). The new Z06 will be even closer. A loaded M4 will certainly be more expensive than a base Z06. Fully loaded both are in the $90,000 - $100,000 range.

The M4 is a spectacular car, but don't pretend the Z06 is very far off on price or efficiency.

[Racer20]

I've owned a Corvette. There's something about a low slung exotic looking sports car that just feels "special" when you're driving it that a sports sedan or even a 4 seat coupe will never have. I can imagine that after driving a P1, 918, and Stingray, an M4 would seem quite "normal" in comparison. The Golf R gets such high marks because nobody has any expectation of it being good relative to the other cars here, and it ends up being pretty decent.

[RickMonet]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

It’s fast, efficient and an excellent daily driver.

Perfect for me!

[alms21]

If I'm looking for a performance daily driver, the M4 is a great choice.
If I'm looking for a fun weekend car and some track duty --- the C7 in spades.

I'd never own an M3/M4 as a weekend fun car. There are tons more fun cars for canyon carving etc. (see CaymanS, BoxsterS, 911, Lotus Evora, Z4M, new Jag roadster, et al)

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

It's a 6.2, and the current ZR1 is only a few MPG off the M4 (20 vs. 17 MPG combined). The new Z06 will be even closer. A loaded M4 will certainly be more expensive than a base Z06. Fully loaded both are in the $90,000 - $100,000 range.

The M4 is a spectacular car, but don't pretend the Z06 is very far off on price or efficiency.

Why the hell are we talking about a car with over 600 hp and not remotely in the class of an M4? Are you trying to tell me the Z06 is a good car? I probably know that better than you.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

Exactly. What other car can I get with 4 doors at this price point with so much luxury, performance, huge trunk etc that you can take on the track and be competitive? If it is just what is the fastest car on track then get the Corvette or the GTR. Cannot see myself daily driving either of those cars.

That is the entire appeal of the M3. It doesn't have a rival. 4-door daily driver on week days, track toy on the weekends. Others in the segment just don't do it the same.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Why the hell are we talking about a car with over 600 hp and not remotely in the class of an M4? Are you trying to tell me the Z06 is a good car? I probably know that better than you.

Well, this is an M4 vs. C7 thread.

[myzmak]

Search harder. This drive with a bunch of cars article is I. the general reviews thread along with the actual review of the car by TG (9/10) and all the other reviews.

[kitesurfer]

There is a forum member who just picked up an M4 and recently sold his 2014 stingray maybe he can share his thoughts on both