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      01-04-2018, 08:01 AM   #1
Bruce AaLee
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Opinion on Big Brake Kits & Tracking

Hey guys,
I'm still breaking in my 2018 M3 ZCP but I'm starting to plan for the 2018 track season.

Last year, I shared a 2016 M3 with my wife and I drove 17 days on track and my wife did another 8 days split pretty even between COTA and MSR Cresson with a random 1-day event at TWS.

Track Setup: Stock 2016 M3 except:
  • Castrol SRF
  • Pagid Pads Front/Rear
  • APEX EC-7 18x10/11" Staggered 18" Wheel Set
  • Nitto NT01 Tires 275/305

I drove with MDM off after the first few events, but my wife still uses it. After the first 7-8 track days the front calipers started turning colors, a few track days later the rears started to change, and eventually, I ended up with black front and blue/green rear calipers. The stock front rotors started to show stress cracks about half way through the year and by the last few events the stress cracks started getting a little worrisome and I wouldn't push it any further. The rear rotors were fine. I never had any issues with the stock braking system in terms of fade or performance, but I was thoroughly annoyed by the discoloration of the calipers. I find it embarrassing the BMW chose a color/paint that can't keep up with high temperatures and makes the car look ridiculous.

Since I am planning on selling the 2016 M3 soon, I just freshened up the entire braking system by buying low-mileage used calipers and new front rotors. Overall, the total in brake related expenses for 25 track days comes out to be somewhere around $3300:
  • $2000 in pads (4 Sets of Front Pads - $370 each & 2 Sets of Rears - $270 each)
  • $800 to correct the caliper discoloration
  • $500 to replace the front rotors

Obviously, if I were planning on keeping the car longer, I could have postponed the caliper refinish or replacement and then the total would be around $2500 in brake expenses, however, as bad as the calipers looked, I would have probably done it anyway.

On to the topic at hand:
I am considering upgrading the braking system of the new M3 before tracking it. My main reasons to upgrade would be:
  • Eliminate Caliper Discoloration
  • Possible Decrease in Brake Pad Wear Expenses
  • Possible Decrease in Rotor Wear
  • Possible improvement of brake feel or performance
  • As a side benefit: Stock brake calipers, brakes, rotors are in new condition and can be solid or used to return to stock before selling the car.

I would like to hear some opinions and insight from people that have gone this route and track their cars regularly:
  1. Are my reasons to upgrade solid?
  2. Are there any reasons not to?
  3. AP Racing, Stoptech, Brembo: Ap Racing seems to be preferred by track drivers, but I read great reviews on the brands as well.
  4. Should I expect savings in terms of brake pad wear?
  5. Anything else to consider?

Thanks in advance,

Ali
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      01-04-2018, 09:17 AM   #2
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Yes, you should get the BBK and then sell me you like new stock brake components. Mine turned dark olive green and look like crap.

All kidding aside, I almost wonder if BMW put the heat sensitive paint on their calipers on purpose so that they could easily identify which cars have been tracked when they come in for service or traded in?
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      01-04-2018, 01:40 PM   #3
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I run an identical setup and feel the same way. I'm going through a set of RS29's in around 2-3 days (5-6 20 minute sessions) depending upon the tracks I'm at and although I'm somewhat happy with the performance, there's always room for improvement. My main reasons for considering the upgrade is the expense of pads/rotors and then also wanting to switch over to slicks at some point. How many track days is everyone getting out of their pads with a BBK setup? I run with DSC off so just thinking about doing a front BBK and calling it a day.
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      01-04-2018, 01:43 PM   #4
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Will BMW not change the calipers under warranty? Don’t think they can argue when every marketing photo of an M4 I’ve seen is on a race track.
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      01-04-2018, 02:40 PM   #5
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I upgraded to a BBK on day 1 for the added confidence they give me at the end of straightaways at 150+. Can the stock setup with race pads do the job? For sure, but the added thermal capacity and their intended purpose make me feel more confidence on the track, and that makes me a safer driver. In that sense, it's worth it for me.

Put cost comparison, including running costs? I don't think BBK is necessary nor a "better deal"

imho.
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      01-04-2018, 04:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
Yes, you should get the BBK and then sell me you like new stock brake components. Mine turned dark olive green and look like crap.

All kidding aside, I almost wonder if BMW put the heat sensitive paint on their calipers on purpose so that they could easily identify which cars have been tracked when they come in for service or traded in?
I doubt BMW did this on purpose. As unbelievable as it sounds for them to make a mistake like this I really think its just oversight. I have a great relationship with my local BMW dealership and everyone from the GM to Service Manager knows the amount of track driving my car has been through and I've never had any pushback. Actually it is always a topic of discussion when I go in and most of them have done BMW Performance Driving School or events. I bring this up only because of BMW USA was worried about track driving, I'm pretty sure the attitude would filter down to the dealerships. The only issue I ever had related to tracking was an intercooler hose cracked at the glue junction out at COTA and BMW knew it and fixed it with no questions. I'm pretty sure these new cars can be scanned for driving habits easily.
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      01-04-2018, 04:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental02 View Post
I run an identical setup and feel the same way. I'm going through a set of RS29's in around 2-3 days (5-6 20 minute sessions) depending upon the tracks I'm at and although I'm somewhat happy with the performance, there's always room for improvement. My main reasons for considering the upgrade is the expense of pads/rotors and then also wanting to switch over to slicks at some point. How many track days is everyone getting out of their pads with a BBK setup? I run with DSC off so just thinking about doing a front BBK and calling it a day.
Yeah, I started keeping an extra set of pads with me at all times. Some tracks like COTA will eat them up very quickly. Twice I went out to a 2-3 day event with around 60% but triggered the brake light before the weekend was over. The pads might have had a session or so left, but with the material so thin, the heat transfer is brutal on the hardware. I'm definitely interested in finding out if BBK pads should last longer.
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      01-04-2018, 04:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim996 View Post
Will BMW not change the calipers under warranty? Don’t think they can argue when every marketing photo of an M4 I’ve seen is on a race track.
I searched the forums for this caliper discoloration issue when it first started happening and if I remember correctly everyone that has complained has pretty much been blown off. I asked my service advisor and the GM and they both said that BMW wouldn't replace it since the brakes still function normally and there is no defect. My argument that the defect is in the paint or finish didn't go anywhere. I'm sure BMW is aware of this issue but seeing how they keep painting brake calipers Blue I don't think its a large enough issue for them to care.
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      01-04-2018, 05:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
I upgraded to a BBK on day 1 for the added confidence they give me at the end of straightaways at 150+. Can the stock setup with race pads do the job? For sure, but the added thermal capacity and their intended purpose make me feel more confidence on the track, and that makes me a safer driver. In that sense, it's worth it for me.

Put cost comparison, including running costs? I don't think BBK is necessary nor a "better deal"

imho.
I never noticed any fade/performance issues at COTA in my roughly 12 track days out there last year(2:35ish being my best lap). However, I will say that I have never experienced the M3 with a BBK so that might be why I was happy with the OEM setup with SRF and Pagid Pads. While I also don't think that a BBK is necessary, if it would result in, for example, better brake feel/performance, longer pad or rotor life, etc, at least for me it would be easier to justify. If its just for the brake caliper discoloration issue, it would be cheaper for me to just have them repainted with a higher temperature paint such as the OEM red brembo color and call it a day. Do you track your car often and if so, do you mind sharing details of your BBK setup?
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      01-04-2018, 05:41 PM   #10
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Are OEM calipers painted or poweredcoated? Same question for aftermarket BBK?
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      01-04-2018, 05:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espressoo View Post
Are OEM calipers painted or poweredcoated? Same question for aftermarket BBK?
It is my understanding that OEM calipers are painted because powder coating creates a thicker coating that can retain more heat. It might not be a big deal for street driven cars, but for track cars it could be very dangerous. I could be wrong but I looked into powder coating my the original calipers that changed color and ultimately decided it would be simpler to just replace them with used calipers since they would probably need to be rebuilt at the same time.
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      01-04-2018, 06:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
Yes, you should get the BBK and then sell me you like new stock brake components. Mine turned dark olive green and look like crap.

All kidding aside, I almost wonder if BMW put the heat sensitive paint on their calipers on purpose so that they could easily identify which cars have been tracked when they come in for service or traded in?
Like this? Just serviced this track rat today (street caliper for comparison):

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      01-04-2018, 06:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Like this? Just serviced this track rat today (street caliper for comparison):

Yup, thats exactly how mine looked. Terrible.
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      01-04-2018, 07:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce AaLee View Post
I never noticed any fade/performance issues at COTA in my roughly 12 track days out there last year(2:35ish being my best lap). However, I will say that I have never experienced the M3 with a BBK so that might be why I was happy with the OEM setup with SRF and Pagid Pads. While I also don't think that a BBK is necessary, if it would result in, for example, better brake feel/performance, longer pad or rotor life, etc, at least for me it would be easier to justify. If its just for the brake caliper discoloration issue, it would be cheaper for me to just have them repainted with a higher temperature paint such as the OEM red brembo color and call it a day. Do you track your car often and if so, do you mind sharing details of your BBK setup?
I have the stoptech trophy kit all around. 380mm, 6 piston/4 piston. I also run SRF and titanium shims. I have run the street “sport” compounds on the street and track as a hybrid, and then progressed to stoptech’s SR-33 track compound, which I have also dailied, albeit with a lot more noise.

The BBK gives me incredible pedal feel and consistency, way more swept area which I would think helps with modulation and again gives me a lot of confidence that I’m not going to face pad fade from too little thermal mass in the pad itself. The pads last a long time too. I have nothing to report in the way of rotor wear - I can feel no lip forming at the edge of the rotor, but I’ve only done about a dozen track events so far on the kit. Tracks I frequent include Summit Point, Dominion, and VIR.

For calibration, I run intermediate-advanced run groups, so I’m quicker than average but not competitive with high horsepower aero cars with experienced racers.

As far as the factory caliper discoloration is concerned, even BBK manufacturers warn against this and recommend black or red caliper colors if you plan on doing real track work, otherwise discoloration and fading are expected. So I wouldn’t blame BMW for using a poor paint quality, just in their color selection.

-Ash



Last edited by ashmostro; 01-04-2018 at 07:09 PM..
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      01-04-2018, 07:51 PM   #15
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My vote goes to the AP 9668 kit from Essex. Calipers are anodized, no paint, and the pads are 25mm thick. Not to mention the whole setup is 8 lbs lighter than oem.
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      01-04-2018, 07:54 PM   #16
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Does a BBK require 19” rims? If so what is a good track setup for tires?

I’m running 275/305 Nittos on 18” Apex right now.
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      01-04-2018, 08:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
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My vote goes to the AP 9668 kit from Essex. Calipers are anodized, no paint, and the pads are 25mm thick. Not to mention the whole setup is 8 lbs lighter than oem.
Anodized calipers are where it's at!
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      01-04-2018, 08:48 PM   #18
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Maybe try PFC 08 pads, they last a long time and don't fade.

Also try and have them professionally powder coated with high temp material that will help. I did that with my stop tech st40 kit and they hold the silver color well.
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      01-04-2018, 09:18 PM   #19
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Any reports of the CCB calipers (gold ones) changing colors? All of the M Performance school cars have them and I can’t imagine them changing to an ugly color. Have you considered upgrading to the CCB calipers and F10 M5 steel front rotors? Priced out it’s much cheaper than going aftermarket BBK on all 4 corners.
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      01-04-2018, 10:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Does a BBK require 19” rims? If so what is a good track setup for tires?

I’m running 275/305 Nittos on 18” Apex right now.
W00tw00t is running the AP racing BBK with 18" Apex sm10s.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...php?p=22227810
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      01-05-2018, 01:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorM4 View Post
W00tw00t is running the AP racing BBK with 18" Apex sm10s.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...php?p=22227810
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      01-05-2018, 12:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Like this? Just serviced this track rat today (street caliper for comparison):

Hi Tom,
Do yall carry the Esses/AP Racing setup for F80 M3s? I'm also looking for GC Camber plates as well. If so, please PM pricing.

Ali
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