savagegeese F80 M3 review - "One of the best things BMW has done in modern history"

[kss]

Originally Posted by zamboni

M2 would never have the HUD.

Yep, or real leather - I think calling Dakota rubber is actually would be a compliment.

This is what I don’t get about the Germans. Audi does the same thing with the TR RS by not offering features that most should be available if buyers are interested in a smaller car (like the M2 or the TT RS), just to “protect” the higher product line. Some of the features you even can get, but pay extra for are standard features in basic cheap economy cars.
At least the TT RS does offer real leather rather than that Dakota crap in the M2.

[Rollrate]

Overall great review, sincere and well meant. I have only one nit to pick about his poor opinion of track performance; at least when it comes to the ZCP, I think he got it way wrong. The laptimes speak for themselves and it's a ton of fun to pass so many unsuspecting 911's.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As a reference, the 763M 20" rear wheel is 0.5lb lighter than the 19" 437M rear wheel while the front 19" 763M is 1.6lb lighter than the 19" front 437M.

Put the wife in the car and none of that matters anyway

[adc]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

There’s an interesting thread in the track sub forum where several members have put forward that an m4 ZCP with 275 front / 305 rear 200tw tire and camber plates basically puts the m4 even with stock SS 1LE lap time wise.

Almost, I think. The 1LE suspension is still just a little bit better based on my observation. But they're so close as to not matter anymore...

In any case, most Camaro 1LE I see come on trailers, which should tell you something about how usable their owners find them, and that is a lifestyle I won't adhere to. I drive my fun car all year round.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by adc

Almost, I think. The 1LE suspension is still just a little bit better based on my observation. But they're so close as to not matter anymore...

In any case, most Camaro 1LE I see come on trailers, which should tell you something about how usable their owners find them, and that is a lifestyle I won't adhere to. I drive my fun car all year round.

Really? I haven't seen that at all, unless the car was prepped for w2w.

maybe they are driving so hard they want to be able to tow it home if they stuff it!

[adc]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Really? I haven't seen that at all, unless the car was prepped for w2w.

maybe they are driving so hard they want to be able to tow it home if they stuff it!

It's at every mid-east track day I went to this year. Maybe because they're cheap to buy and considered a track toy only... In any case, my buddy is driving his GT3RS to the events so how could be a 1LE be worse. But what do I know...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by adc

It's at every mid-east track day I went to this year. Maybe because they're cheap to buy and considered a track toy only... In any case, my buddy is driving his GT3RS to the events so how could be a 1LE be worse. But what do I know...

Sigh! The day when I can drive a GT3 daily to grab groceries from Ralph's.......or hit the local track.


#singleguyPCardreams

[GMe90]

Amazing Car YouTuber. I love his videos! He knows his stuff when it comes to cars and is hilarious.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by moonshine89

I wonder if it'll be harder to become part of the m club in the future. I feel most here have driven or owned an m car in the past and can really point out the improvements or driven many other sport cars.

I'm currently trying to sell my m3 since it's difficult to take it to an island. But as I get offers for it and drive it everyday, I can't stop doubting my decision to sell it. I keep fantasizing about keeping and making it work on the island.

My point is...I saw this review within the hour of it being posted on YouTube. I too felt let down since I love the channel and I thought he was gonna finish with how amazing the f8x generation is. In the end I felt the conclusion was the F8x generation is for newbie m posers. People that can afford a luxury sports car but aren't hardcore enthusiasts that can "feel" the soul of a car. Maybe I haven't driven enough older generations or sports cars in general....but damn! My m3 makes me climax every time I get on a highway merge. Rippin through the gears with my DCT makes me feel like a frickin F1 driver. On paper it's the most refined and powerful m3 to date. I'm sure it'll change, but what's the grading rubric these days for an m3? Seems to be getting tougher every generation...

Yeah, funny reviewers like this.

Then you see how each year they are running faster ring or Car and Driver VIR lap times with each platform. M4 still is one of the fastest stock BMW lap times, the F80 platform.

New technology trumps old stuff all day.

Stupid opinions, every youtuber has one and they all stink.

Here is the VIR list, only the most expensive tricked out cars are beating the M4 GTS. M2 beat the M4 by 5 seconds. Most of these cars are really good cars on the list.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

[minn19]

Originally Posted by techlogik

Yeah, funny reviewers like this.

Then you see how each year they are running faster ring or Car and Driver VIR lap times with each platform. M4 still is one of the fastest stock BMW lap times, the F80 platform.

New technology trumps old stuff all day.

Stupid opinions, every youtuber has one and they all stink.

Here is the VIR list, only the most expensive tricked out cars are beating the M4 GTS. M2 beat the M4 by 5 seconds. Most of these cars are really good cars on the list.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

GT350R and ZL1 1LEs are the most expensive tricked out cars?

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by minn19

GT350R and ZL1 1LEs are the most expensive tricked out cars?

You know what I mean wise guy. Those are stock cars that are renowned as being fast...most others above the list are more enthusiast and pricey.

And yes a GTR isn't a run of the mill vehicle generally speaking...compared to a base Mustang. But that Mustang and a few Camaro versions are really the only one.

Really my points are related to the videos and comments about the mystical earlier M car versions, which are all slower and not as good as the current F series. I owned a 2002 M3 CMB and SMG. Was nice and a great car in build quality and drive dynamics. But had the Rev the heck out of it to get it moving. an E92 coupe would smoke it with a simple chip. Had a 2011 335is as well as a 07 335i coupe.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by techlogik

You know what I mean wise guy. Those are stock cars that are renowned as being fast...most others above the list are more enthusiast and pricey.

And yes a GTR isn't a run of the mill vehicle generally speaking...compared to a base Mustang. But that Mustang and a few Camaro versions are really the only one.

Really my points are related to the videos and comments about the mystical earlier M car versions, which are all slower and not as good as the current F series. I owned a 2002 M3 CMB and SMG. Was nice and a great car in build quality and drive dynamics. But had the Rev the heck out of it to get it moving. an E92 coupe would smoke it with a simple chip. Had a 2011 335is as well as a 07 335i coupe.

Neither is a GTS compared to a base 3/4 series. But yes, I do get your point.

[maniz]

"There's the DCT which this car unfortunately has..."



Good review. What's that cable dangling under the chassis though? Excess from the exhaust valve controller? Distracting as hell.

[Ru35ian]

I'm still having a hard time grasping (without having driven the M2) why he and pretty much all automotive journalists loud M2 as the best M car, besides maybe it being cheapest.

He's also done reviews of current and previous gen M5's and came off with a much more positive tone. I'm a bit surprised that M3/4 gets as much negative tone, while bigger and smaller M's are getting the nod.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Ru35ian

I'm still having a hard time grasping (without having driven the M2) why he and pretty much all automotive journalists loud M2 as the best M car, besides maybe it being cheapest.

He's also done reviews of current and previous gen M5's and came off with a much more positive tone. I'm a bit surprised that M3/4 gets as much negative tone, while bigger and smaller M's are getting the nod.

I personally think the M3 changed a lot from its intro in 2014 till the end in 2018 - BMW did not have the car dialed in quite right IMHO (and per a lot of reviewers). I think the changes they made to the car - some public (Comp Package, differential), some not (torque curve, steering feel), made the car a very different animal at the end of its run (others who had early M3s and upgraded to latter ones claimed it was a very different car as well).

Point being, at the end of its run, BMW finally got it right. In fact, I would have LOVED to have seen a comparison test with a 2017/2018 M3 with 19 inch wheels as I think the car would have done very well against the competition. Alas, with the 20" 666 wheels they screwed up big time IMHO.

edit: whereas the M2 was just about perfect from day#1 and judging by the prices of the OG ones, BMW may not have actually improved it with the comp.

[adc]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I personally think the M3 changed a lot from its intro in 2014 till the end in 2018 - BMW did not have the car dialed in quite right IMHO (and per a lot of reviewers). I think the changes they made to the car - some public (Comp Package, differential), some not (torque curve, steering feel), made the car a very different animal at the end of its run (others who had early M3s and upgraded to latter ones claimed it was a very different car as well).

Point being, at the end of its run, BMW finally got it right. In fact, I would have LOVED to have seen a comparison test with a 2017/2018 M3 with 19 inch wheels as I think the car would have done very well against the competition. Alas, with the 20" 666 wheels they screwed up big time IMHO.

edit: whereas the M2 was just about perfect from day#1 and judging by the prices of the OG ones, BMW may not have actually improved it with the comp.

And now for a slightly different take...

I've had a 2015 and now a 2018 ZCP, and while there were differences between them stock, the differences weren't as significant as the commonality between the cars. Yes the 2018 had better damping, slightly better steering calibration (but hard to detect, or could have been placebo) and a very different engine tune, with a more linear power delivery. It's the latter which made all the difference for reviews, that and the realization that for the first time in an M3, you couldn't treat the gas pedal as an on/off switch.

But, progress was definitely made, small increments in many areas. Objectively, I was about 1-2 seconds faster in the 2018 than in my 2015, with the same mods (camber plates, brake pads, tires).

In my back to back comparison between my 2018 with camber plates and a stock M2C, I found the m2's front end to be much less positive (and too light) and the car much easier to agitate due to the shorter wheelbase. But again, many similarities with the M3.

[SubzeroVR4]

Originally Posted by adc

Almost, I think. The 1LE suspension is still just a little bit better based on my observation. But they're so close as to not matter anymore...

In any case, most Camaro 1LE I see come on trailers, which should tell you something about how usable their owners find them, and that is a lifestyle I won't adhere to. I drive my fun car all year round.

I trailer my M3 to the track because I’m usually 3 hours away from home. I’m by myself and anything can happen when pushing the car so it’s reassuring knowing I have a way to get the car back home if I have something as small as a shredded tire.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

That car and driver car was literally one of the first models. Since then AR has done the necessary improvements to the vehicle. A QV now is just as reliable as an M3. Can't knock it until you try it and/or do the necessary research to see that they're take in rate is about the same as MERC or BMW. One thing I will say and agree with you is that dealer network is extremely lacking on some of them not all. The dealerships where AR is with Masserati are the ones to go to.

I really enjoyed my time with Giulia QV. I drove it about 15k miles and it was pretty reliable overall. I got rid of it due to crappy service department in my area and unfortunately they were the only ones. It wasn't perfect by any means but a great car no doubt.

[GearRex]

Originally Posted by techlogik

Yeah, funny reviewers like this.

Then you see how each year they are running faster ring or Car and Driver VIR lap times with each platform. M4 still is one of the fastest stock BMW lap times, the F80 platform.

New technology trumps old stuff all day.

Stupid opinions, every youtuber has one and they all stink.

Here is the VIR list, only the most expensive tricked out cars are beating the M4 GTS. M2 beat the M4 by 5 seconds. Most of these cars are really good cars on the list.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

Thanks for the list.

BMW M4 GTS (2016) 2:52.9
BMW M2 Competition (2019) 2:59.7
BMW M4 (2015) 3:00.7
BMW M2 (2016) 3:01.9

However, I do not see the 5 seconds difference that you stated above between the M2 and M4. Also note that the M4 Competition is not on the list. I suspect it would be marginally faster than the M2 Competition, maybe a few tenths. I would like to see the M3/M4 CS on the list at some point - is not going to happen, I know.

I am impressed with the Porsche Carrera T time of 2:53.4, as is the fastest standard Carrera time without getting into the GT Porsche cars or the Turbo models.

It is also ahead of the BMW M5 Competition time of 2:54.0

[adc]

Originally Posted by SubzeroVR4

I trailer my M3 to the track because I’m usually 3 hours away from home. I’m by myself and anything can happen when pushing the car so it’s reassuring knowing I have a way to get the car back home if I have something as small as a shredded tire.

I drive 4-5 hours to my events, and my track tires are in the back of the car. If something were to happen with the track tires (and it has), I just put the OEMs back on and drive home. Don’t need a trailer for that.

Plus the OEMs are the rain setup.