Autocar Compares F82 M4 vs C63 507 Edition

[Arcoril]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

The irony here is that you're implying the M3 is significantly better in terms of handling and car control, while your own experience says otherwise.

Best performance upgrade you can buy isn't a better car. It's a high performance driving course. It also transfers to every single car you'll ever drive.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Yes you're definitely in the minority in regards to the sound of the AMG

I'm really curious why so many folks on here are so eager to defend BMW? My thinking (and I suspect a few auto journalists like Sutcliffe's thinking) is that the less enthusiam we show and the less we settle for the changes BMW is imposing on us, the more likely BMW will build a better car (competition version can't come soon enough). Today more so than ever consumers can shape the direction of a brand.

And let's not use regulations and emissions as a scapegoat because every other OEM has to play by the same rules and in fact the true measure is how OEMs adapt to the new rules while still keeping its core DNA.

Nobody is saying BMW didn't build a great car, what some are questioning is did they build the best car they could build? Still inconclusive of course.

I couldnt agree more. BMW has softened all their cars to the point that they lose every shootout to frikkin audi which is the worst of the 3 imo, all their cars are based on Front Wheel Drive VW architecture. The S5 which is 6 years old trounced the 435M Sport recently. The fact that he likes the C63 507 better and its 6 years old about to be replaced says a lot IMO. The M3/M4 are disappointing to me at least. They just dont feel that special. Out of curiosity i built and optioned a 435 M sport with typical discounts and you can lease for high 500's....The M4 is mid-high 1000's...I just don't see how the M4 is double the price its not a 100% better car....The looks are disappointing as well, again just doesnt look that special

[rmedeir1]

BMW has financial objectives and market share they are trying to balance. they will never come out with a car in this price range that will meet all of our "consumer" objectives perfectly.

Personally I have driven the C63 AMG in NorCal at Thunderhill raceway and was very disappointed with the gear box even in sport mode. Very slow in shifts and downshifting was just pitiful. However, driving on the freeway for a good 3 hours from San Fran I LOVED the V8 sound, torque, and acceleration from 60-140. Because of this I have seriously considered buying the C63 507 instead of the M4....BUT....the beauty of the M4 (BMW wins this in my mind with current C63 and upcoming C63) and the balance of performance are what I chose and what BMW thinks the consumer will choose too.

Both are great cars...you want the engine go for C63...you want the balance of sleek design and performance but in an i6TT then go BMW. This debate on which car is better is really stupid. Even the M6/M5 acceleration vs. M4 discussion is stupid!

[bucket328]

I am very eager to drive one of these for myself now as I am perplexed by all these comments about the poor throttle response compared to the old car. All the videos I've watched give the impression that the throttle response is instant and relentless! I don't know what to believe, so it's time for a drive!!

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KKM3

These c63 and m5 guys will never get it. Just like us m3 and Porsche guys will never understand why they prefer bigger heavier cars. Just let it go.

Except I almost bought an E92 (would've been my 7th BMW in a row) and I have an F80 on order.

I just think it's unfair and lazy to perpetuate myths about either brand.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

The M3 was always a driver's oriented car. It is a legend that has garnered an incredible number of followers. This car is been in the making since 1985. Mercedes did not wake-up and started making driver's oriented cars until 2008, with the C63. Mercedes gave AMG unprecedented input in the design of the C63 (not counting the SLS). Only time will tell, but the way I see, the gap between M3/M4 and C63 will soon disappear.

On a side note: The only difference between C63-P31 and C63-Edition 507, is cosmetic. Many drivers compared them on MBWorld.

+1. Well said.

My thoughts as well. Getting lost in the shuffle is my respect and admiration for both brands and both cars.

[M3]

Originally Posted by Buddy Revell

Thanks for that. He didn't seem to be a huge fan of the previous M3 when it came out either:

Saw and watched this video about a half minute after I watched the original thread video and I can't wait to get out of work and take my M3 for a spirited drive tonight.

Thank you sir, for making me appreciate my car once again

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Can't wait to hear the excuses from you guys when the next mustang beats the M4 in head to head reviews.

BMW could release a 4 cylinder that has an exhaust that sounds like explosive diarrhea and you badge fanboys would be drooling over it.

[ake]

Originally Posted by JAM3S

Can't wait to hear the excuses from you guys when the next mustang beats the M4 in head to head reviews..

You are one funny person. What reviews shall that be?
Undoubtedly the BMW is a whole different class of car. I could trash 2 Mustangs and still buy one more for the same price...

[vladberca]

Just for fun head to head as the new M3/M4 are much better all around cars than their predecessors and the 507 Edition is a more track oriented model from the W204 AMG series (of course with the BS too).
Still to come the Comp Pack for F80/F82
The proper head to head should have been M3 CRT/ GTS vs 507 Edition or the BS.

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by vladberca

Just for fun head to head as the new M3/M4 are much better all around cars than their predecessors and the 507 Edition is a more track oriented model from the W204 AMG series (of course with the BS too).
Still to come the Comp Pack for F80/F82
The proper head to head should have been M3 CRT/ GTS vs 507 Edition or the BS.

+1

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Except I almost bought an E92 (would've been my 7th BMW in a row) and I have an F80 on order.

I just think it's unfair and lazy to perpetuate myths about either brand.

Your right, but he had several valid points about build quality, interior quality, overall service/customer experience between the two brands. I like you am not stuck to one brand but I can recognize and admit the inferiorities of one over the other, even if I'm criticizing the brand that I own. All the posts I've seen from you in this thread are defensive, it seems like you have a hard time dealing with critical posts about your c63, I'm not sure why.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KKM3

Your right, but he had several valid points about build quality, interior quality, overall service/customer experience between the two brands. I like you am not stuck to one brand but I can recognize and admit the inferiorities of one over the other, even if I'm criticizing the brand that I own. All the posts I've seen from you in this thread are defensive, it seems like you have a hard time dealing with critical posts about your c63, I'm not sure why.

I'm not defensive; I'm thorough. And some of the critical posts you're referring to have been off base. At some point, everyone gets tired of repeating themselves . . . or tired having points misunderstood . . . or tired of having points completely ignored.

[bmwm3redblack]

Originally Posted by mrkhanna16

Weird.....he said the benz had better steering and the M had more torque.

+100000000000000000000000000000

[JSP///M4C]

Originally Posted by M4TW

Well that was the most unconvincing win ever.

He liked the throttle response of the Merc but that has to be tempered by the prodigious torque he praised in the M4. He liked the steering better in the Merc but he must have been steered in that direction by it being equipped with God Save The Queen side steering. The M4 certainly looked much more nibble in his hands.

Meanwhile, he critiqued the Merc's crappy transmission, weight, seats, and interior. He complimented how light the M4 felt, how easy it was to drift, its brakes, chassis, how easy it was to place, that it was more efficient, its vastly superior DCT, smoother ride, and less tire noise.

I was amused by the fact that in spite of having 500 HP, that the Merc was a tick slower.

I came away from his review all the more convinced that I'd much rather have the M4. I agree with him about the sound to an extent, but it doesn't sound any better to me than a Mustang or Camero. A classic sound to be sure, but dated like he said repeatedly about the C63. The turbo M4 makes a new sound.

From the future.

100% agree!

[M3ryder55]

I agree that sound is part of the driving experience. All euro cars are changing now due to EU EPA regulations. Turbos are the future cause u can generate more power, better fuel mpg due to smaller engines and overall less CO emissions. If this were a test between a gts and a 507 I think his opinion would be different.

But merc still has a way to go. I like a car with engineering, with attention to detail. Benz has good sounding motors. That's it. Everything else sucks. Heavy. Trannies r a joke especially at that price tag and in this day and age.. If sound and straight line performance is ur thing get a domestic.

This car runs to 60 in less than 4 secs.. And is rated at 425hp.. That's engineering and attention to detail.

This is the most important car Bmw makes for the brand and m division. Have faith. They have never failed. Don't let one bad review influence your opinion. Everyone has an opinion. Out of all these guys I trust 3 people's review the most. Tiff, Clarkson and Harris. Idk what tiff has said but Clarkson and Harris love it. And Clarkson is a known bmw hater.

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Here are some test drive notes from a review of the C63. The topic is handling.

"Excellent grip. We recorded 0.96g around the skid pad. Sport Handling ESC mode was hardly intrusive at all, allowing very aggressive turn-in."

"Steering is quick and weighted properly to manage this well-balanced [car]."

"This car is built for places where it pays to be fast and laps are timed. The only way to truly appreciate the driving experience is to put the C63 thorugh its paces on the track."

I did drive a Pre-LCI W204 C63 so the LCI may be a lot better.

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by ake

You are one funny person. What reviews shall that be?
Undoubtedly the BMW is a whole different class of car. I could trash 2 Mustangs and still buy one more for the same price...

Are they really that much different?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...m3_comparison/

The E92 barely won...Doubting the F8x m3/m4 will win if it can't beat out a c63.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89

I did drive a Pre-LCI W204 C63 so the LCI may be a lot better.

That makes sense. The LCI model did get a fairly substantial suspension overhaul.

The old standard automatic transmission was pretty darn good. A lot of people crap on the MCT (because relative to the M DCT, it's not as responsive) but that transmission still accomplishes 100 millisecond shifts.

MB is stubborn with respecting to building the transmissions in-house.

We've been spoiled by the great transmissions outsourced by BMW - the ZF 8-speed "Sport Auto." and the Getrag DCT.

[solstice]

"Out of all these guys I trust 3 people's review the most. Tiff, Clarkson and Harris. Idk what tiff has said but Clarkson and Harris love it. And Clarkson is a known bmw hater."

I hope Tiff will have a go in it soon since of those three his taste seem most like my own. Clarkson drive a Benz so he is out and Harris loves everything about the M5 so he is also out .

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

I agree that sound is part of the driving experience. All euro cars are changing now due to EU EPA regulations. Turbos are the future cause u can generate more power, better fuel mpg due to smaller engines and overall less CO emissions. If this were a test between a gts and a 507 I think his opinion would be different.

But merc still has a way to go. I like a car with engineering, with attention to detail. Benz has good sounding motors. That's it. Everything else sucks. Heavy. Trannies r a joke especially at that price tag and in this day and age.. If sound and straight line performance is ur thing get a domestic.

This car runs to 60 in less than 4 secs.. And is rated at 425hp.. That's engineering and attention to detail.

This is the most important car Bmw makes for the brand and m division. Have faith. They have never failed. Don't let one bad review influence your opinion. Everyone has an opinion. Out of all these guys I trust 3 people's review the most. Tiff, Clarkson and Harris. Idk what tiff has said but Clarkson and Harris love it. And Clarkson is a known bmw hater.

Yeah Sutcliffe achieved one of the slower 0-60 runs I've ever seen for the C63.

The last two tests I've seen, both the standard and 507 C63s achieved sub-4.0 second 0-60 times (3.9 for the standard, 3.8 and 12.2 1/4 mile for the 507).

Also, I've mentioned this before, as much as Chris Harris loves BMW, he preferred the W204 C63 to the E9X M3.

I didn't interpret this as a bad review for the F82 at all. I don't understand why others are taking it that way.

[MrCsquared]

Originally Posted by JAM3S

Can't wait to hear the excuses from you guys when the next mustang beats the M4 in head to head reviews.

BMW could release a 4 cylinder that has an exhaust that sounds like explosive diarrhea and you badge fanboys would be drooling over it.

Why?... Help me understand the purpose of you going out of your way to respond and post something like this. Self-assurance?