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      03-02-2014, 01:06 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by ///Mangler View Post
Oh my. You guys are arguing over 1-200/mo. Just wait 2 years and save 40%? Seems like it's not the money it's the status that matters to you.

T
I know, right? Posers.
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      03-02-2014, 01:45 PM   #90
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Why are the residuals so much lower on M3's vs M5's???

Looking at e90 residuals.

Seems like the people who lease the first two years take a big hit when compared to the M5 and 6 owners
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      03-02-2014, 01:59 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536 View Post
Here is mine:

M3 Sedan
I'll have a set of KW-V3s, Klassen M52R w/ Yokohama AD08R, and some form of exhaust waiting for it, so I'm trying not to waste money like I did last time with the Competition Package. My plan is to buy one and bolt the parts on the new car when the lease is up. I just don't want to buy a first model year car.

Alpine White
Extended Marino Leather Sakhir Orange
Harmon Kardon

MSRP: $64,750
Residual Percentage at 12,000 Miles: 57%
Residual Value: $36,907.50
Percent off MSRP: 0.00%
Negotiated Price: $64,750
Down Payment: $0
Net Cap Cost (Neg. Price – Down Payment): $64,750
Depreciation: $27,842.50
Lease Term: 36 Months
Monthly Depreciation Payment: $773.40

Finance Cost = Net Cap Cost + Residual:
Interest Rate (APR): .0013 X 2400 = 3.12%
Money Factor: 0.0013
Monthly Finance Fee: $132.16

Monthly Payment: $773.40 + $132.16 = $905.56
Sales Tax: 6%: $54.34
Total Monthly Payment: $959.90

Title, Registration, and Other Fees: ~$1,000
Incentives/Rebates: $0 (Assuming there are none.)

Drive-off (1st month’s payment + Fees): $1,959.90
THANK YOU!!! You are one of the very few people in these discussions with the understanding of financial numbers on BMW leases! I have been pulling my hair out reading most of these crazy posts of people thinking they can lease a $65k M3 for $700 a month! My $57k 335i is $775 a month at 3.2% interest and 10% sales tax w/ zero down.

Everyone, read what he money2536 posted, he is the sane person in these threads!
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      03-02-2014, 02:03 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by P-Town550i View Post
Exactly right!
Yup, I change cars every 18 months and the only down I put is the negative equity. Though I thinking that my next car - 2016 M3 will be my car for the next 10 years. Oh screw that, I see a 2018 M5 too,
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      03-02-2014, 03:05 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE_M3 View Post
The lease on my 2011 E90 M3, brand new, ZCP, leather, and not much else, was <$700/mo with 3500 down, for comparison.

I think the residual was like 60%
the difference is that 2011 was the last year for the E90.
they really had aggressive rates on the E90's in May-June of 2011 (economy was also hurting much so they had to do something to sell cars).
I was able to lease a 2011 335i (ED) fully loaded (MSRP ~$55k) for $530 tax included

It's a different story now - a new model just coming out, with a lot of hype around it.
If anything, you'll see $10k dealer mark ups at first, so you can't really compare the two
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      03-02-2014, 04:04 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexN View Post
the difference is that 2011 was the last year for the E90.
they really had aggressive rates on the E90's in May-June of 2011 (economy was also hurting much so they had to do something to sell cars).
I was able to lease a 2011 335i (ED) fully loaded (MSRP ~$55k) for $530 tax included

It's a different story now - a new model just coming out, with a lot of hype around it.
If anything, you'll see $10k dealer mark ups at first, so you can't really compare the two
He's absolutely right. Also depends on WHERE you live. When the e90/92 first came out here, dealerships had up to a $25k markup and plenty of people out here don't flinch at paying that just to have have what they want. We can guess and speculate on monthly prices, but it will be up in the air first 6 months +...
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      03-02-2014, 04:11 PM   #95
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I dug up the lease rates for E90 and E92 M3 back in Feb 2008 for comparison purposes.

Residual was 53% for E90 M3s, and 55% for E92 M3s, both 36months lease, 15k mi/yr. MF rate was crazy like 0.00235 for a long time too.

I remember seeing $1300/month for a lease on E92s during the first year, and then it started to trend down as the model gets older.

If I can get a new M3/M4 lease under a grand, I might consider doing it.....V8 and turbo 6 both in my garage, yeepee!
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      03-02-2014, 05:57 PM   #96
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Can anyone explain this to me and how it works?
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      03-02-2014, 07:28 PM   #97
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I've been running the numbers and it appears:
Adding 1 point on the residual=$20/month less
Dropping $1k from msrp= $30/month less.
Below is the site I've been using if any of you want to play with the numbers.

Hoping I'll at least get a loyalty discount for having leased my E92 since Oct. 2011
Debating whether to extend my current lease until December when BMW OTHERWISE usually offers the end of the year credit toward the lease. Though I realize the M3/M4 may be MSRP or beyond for a while, based on demand.

Currently paying 889/month with ZERO down and 15k miles/year on a 3 year lease.
That was based on an MSRP of 75,425, but I got the car for around 69k.
Sadly those figures are likely long gone, assuming no discount.

Assuming the same terms and $1k (loyalty estimate/hope) off an estimated $77k msrp. I'm looking at 1,088.58/month. Or $39,1188.78 over the course of 3 years. I didn't calculate sales tax, since our maximum tax in SC is just $300. They get us on yearly registration though.

Of course keep the communication alive regarding upcoming potential and lease quotes any of you get!
Here's the site:
http://www.free-online-calculator-us...tml#calculator
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      03-02-2014, 07:42 PM   #98
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Sitting here with a jar of Vaseline waiting for Canadian lease prices to come out.
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      03-02-2014, 07:58 PM   #99
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Here's an interesting comparo between leasing and financing. But not a traditional finance, I compared a finance of ONLY the amount paid during a 3 year lease. Since at the end of the lease you'd have the option to buy the car anyway. Well in this case the lease comes out cheaper. So I'm thinking lease just gives you more options, if you plan to consider buying at lease end anyway. Here's one of many sites I used.

Finance Monthly payment at just under 3% interest on a 36 month finance:
$1138.59

Lease monthly payment assuming the terms in previous post:
$1088.58

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/financ....jsp?mode=full
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      03-02-2014, 08:35 PM   #100
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For some of the prices you guys are quoting, it's definitely cheaper to get a 991. At least back when I got it. Not sure on current Porsche PFS rates.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=870855





Quote:
Originally Posted by barcius13 View Post
Almost always better to buy than lease a car. Banks exist for a reason and it is to realize capital gains. Lease carry more risk to banks than loans so it is expected to cost more than financing. There are finance vs. lease tools all over the internet these days. At the end the decision is not about cost, but about preference:
1) Lease if you know the mileage and you will sell the car at the end and do not want to deal with the hassle of selling the car on your own.
2) Finance if you want to save some $ and/or may keep the car longer and do not mind selling it on your own.
disagree; I'm gonna cut a paste what I posted on another forum:

Quote:
I used to see these types of debates quite often on e90post. The thing is that everyone's situation is unique, but after arriving to 6speedonline I find that the crowd has less disparity in finances/etc so it is easier to generalize.

These vehicles can definitely be treated as expenses so long as it is a reasonable percentage of your income/revenue. My accountant is classifying my lease as an equipment rental and for my GF's purchased 981, the depreciation will be amortized.

I think the general idea is that you want to offset your income tax as much as possible. If you are paying potentially $100k in income taxes prior to deductions, "equipment rental", depreciating assets, and other such potential deductions will come in handy. If you are paying the tax anyway, why not have a 991 while you are at it? You are either paying the money to the IRS/FTB or to Porsche.

And also let's remember that a 2 year 991 lease is around $25k - $45k pending your model/trim so that's 12.5k to 22.5k a year, which is then 12.5% to 22.5% of the $100k potential income tax. That's a reasonable percentage the accountant can work with. But again, obviously you need the income to support this. I don't think the majority of the e90post crowd understood that part.

The only other thing is that you should make your company/entity a co-buyer. This does affect the insurance. If your entity is mostly a pass through to protect against liability, the insurance becomes tricky as you don't actually have many "employees". The most cost efficient way is to somehow get personal insurance that also covers the company. A full-on commercial policy will likely be extremely expensive comparatively.
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      03-02-2014, 09:00 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
And you can only drive 10-15k miles in 3 years? LOL why bother
Per year.
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      03-02-2014, 09:11 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gastoys View Post
THANK YOU!!! You are one of the very few people in these discussions with the understanding of financial numbers on BMW leases! I have been pulling my hair out reading most of these crazy posts of people thinking they can lease a $65k M3 for $700 a month! My $57k 335i is $775 a month at 3.2% interest and 10% sales tax w/ zero down.

Everyone, read what he money2536 posted, he is the sane person in these threads!
Yeah man. Let's hope MSRP pricing doesn't last long. If we see a percent or two positive difference in residual (doubtful), add-in 6 or 7 Multiple Security Deposits, and a reduction in selling price (Net Cap Cost), we could see an almost $200 difference in monthly cash flow. Even at $900 a month, BMW almost always "leases better" than competitors.
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      03-02-2014, 11:21 PM   #103
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My lease at msrp

I figured drive off is 2k.. Going to wait after looking at this. AlmoSt m5 prices
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      03-02-2014, 11:23 PM   #104
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This is at invoice roughly with a 62% residual.. Big drop.. I'm willing to wait to save 200 a month.
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      03-02-2014, 11:39 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gastoys View Post
THANK YOU!!! You are one of the very few people in these discussions with the understanding of financial numbers on BMW leases! I have been pulling my hair out reading most of these crazy posts of people thinking they can lease a $65k M3 for $700 a month! My $57k 335i is $775 a month at 3.2% interest and 10% sales tax w/ zero down.

Everyone, read what he money2536 posted, he is the sane person in these threads!
I wont go through the numbers like the above poster, but you can definitely can get those deals if you can get the right discounts and money factor. I generally only lease if I can get a payment that is between $10-$12 per $1000 of MSRP on a standard 12k 36mo lease, with no more than $2k out the door to cover first payment, registration and fees, nothing toward cap cost. I leased a $53k 335xi for $605/mo, then went to an $84k M3 for $865/mo, now I am in a $55k S4 for $684/mo. I'm not going to sit and tell you that every car should be leasable for that rate, but when I look at an MSRP of $65k I immediately think of a target payment between $700 and $800/mo, and if I couldn't get it I'd either give my card to the CA and tell him to call me if the rates change, or look at another car.
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      03-02-2014, 11:44 PM   #106
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The lease is a beautiful thing

The lease is a beautiful thing when your M sustains damage and any savings from a purchase would be negated. My leased 2005 M3 was hit from behind at a stoplight, pushed into a pickup truck and sustained $14,000 in damage. It was repaired at the dealer and when the lease term was up I dropped it off and leased a 335i. My current 135i convertible was bumped on my way to work a few months ago. It was repaired at the dealer, about $1500. The lease is up in August...
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      03-03-2014, 12:03 AM   #107
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Do you mind sharing your porsche deal? Does porsche also do msd on leases? I'm thinking of getting one once my ah3 is up. On that I got a killer deal. Full msd. Euro delivery. Taxes in payment. 399 a month on a 64k msrp
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      03-03-2014, 12:05 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonn
For some of the prices you guys are quoting, it's definitely cheaper to get a 991. At least back when I got it. Not sure on current Porsche PFS rates.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=870855





Quote:
Originally Posted by barcius13 View Post
Almost always better to buy than lease a car. Banks exist for a reason and it is to realize capital gains. Lease carry more risk to banks than loans so it is expected to cost more than financing. There are finance vs. lease tools all over the internet these days. At the end the decision is not about cost, but about preference:
1) Lease if you know the mileage and you will sell the car at the end and do not want to deal with the hassle of selling the car on your own.
2) Finance if you want to save some $ and/or may keep the car longer and do not mind selling it on your own.
disagree; I'm gonna cut a paste what I posted on another forum:

Quote:
I used to see these types of debates quite often on e90post. The thing is that everyone's situation is unique, but after arriving to 6speedonline I find that the crowd has less disparity in finances/etc so it is easier to generalize.

These vehicles can definitely be treated as expenses so long as it is a reasonable percentage of your income/revenue. My accountant is classifying my lease as an equipment rental and for my GF's purchased 981, the depreciation will be amortized.

I think the general idea is that you want to offset your income tax as much as possible. If you are paying potentially $100k in income taxes prior to deductions, "equipment rental", depreciating assets, and other such potential deductions will come in handy. If you are paying the tax anyway, why not have a 991 while you are at it? You are either paying the money to the IRS/FTB or to Porsche.

And also let's remember that a 2 year 991 lease is around $25k - $45k pending your model/trim so that's 12.5k to 22.5k a year, which is then 12.5% to 22.5% of the $100k potential income tax. That's a reasonable percentage the accountant can work with. But again, obviously you need the income to support this. I don't think the majority of the e90post crowd understood that part.

The only other thing is that you should make your company/entity a co-buyer. This does affect the insurance. If your entity is mostly a pass through to protect against liability, the insurance becomes tricky as you don't actually have many "employees". The most cost efficient way is to somehow get personal insurance that also covers the company. A full-on commercial policy will likely be extremely expensive comparatively.
Do you mind sharing your porsche deal? Does porsche also do msd on leases? I'm thinking of getting one once my ah3 is up. On that I got a killer deal. Full msd. Euro delivery. Taxes in payment. 399 a month on a 64k msrp
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      03-03-2014, 12:14 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon
Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
And you can only drive 10-15k miles in 3 years? LOL why bother
Per year.
Not too bad then, an average amount
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      03-03-2014, 12:18 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
I wont go through the numbers like the above poster, but you can definitely can get those deals if you can get the right discounts and money factor. I generally only lease if I can get a payment that is between $10-$12 per $1000 of MSRP on a standard 12k 36mo lease, with no more than $2k out the door to cover first payment, registration and fees, nothing toward cap cost. I leased a $53k 335xi for $605/mo, then went to an $84k M3 for $865/mo, now I am in a $55k S4 for $684/mo. I'm not going to sit and tell you that every car should be leasable for that rate, but when I look at an MSRP of $65k I immediately think of a target payment between $700 and $800/mo, and if I couldn't get it I'd either give my card to the CA and tell him to call me if the rates change, or look at another car.
I'm guessing on both of those leases you were taking advantage of residuals at 63% or better,maxing out your MSDs, and doing an ED Invoice+profit and base MF/Dealer fees?
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