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      04-08-2016, 04:43 PM   #2289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J415
Quote:
Originally Posted by visi107 View Post
How do you order a car but not think it's a good idea to get the selling price, at the very least?
I like how you chose to edit your initial commentary, you know the part where you mentioned that you "don't mean to come off like a jerk".

Either way this would have been a good number to get from the dealer and Ive asked for it and am expecting a response, I never professed to knowing the ins and outs of leasing a car, all I know is that with the same dp over the last few months Ive received quotes of $950+ a month.

Thats primarily the reason why I posted here to ask and get feedback.
I was surprised to see u write that u didn't know the selling price that's all. (I guess that's what I should have said to begin with)
Now let's talk about your deal. It's hard to comment Bc all u/we have is the monthly payment and the down payment. We need to know more info, lot more.
What is Selling price? What will the down payment cover? Any rebates that will be applied and how will they be applied? U leasing seems like, what's the MF? Are you doing any MSDs?
U should also find out what the invoice price is.
Can u find out this info so we can evaluate the deal. I also would recommend looking over how a lease is calculated if you are not familiar with it. If you have a smart phone get this app Leasematic, it's great. Will calculate ur lease within a dollar.
I ordered my car 3 months ago so do have some recent personal experience with the process.

Edit-can u list all the options uttered on the car also.
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      04-08-2016, 05:21 PM   #2290
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Originally Posted by visi107 View Post
I was surprised to see u write that u didn't know the selling price that's all. (I guess that's what I should have said to begin with)
Now let's talk about your deal. It's hard to comment Bc all u/we have is the monthly payment and the down payment. We need to know more info, lot more.
What is Selling price? What will the down payment cover? Any rebates that will be applied and how will they be applied? U leasing seems like, what's the MF? Are you doing any MSDs?
U should also find out what the invoice price is.
Can u find out this info so we can evaluate the deal. I also would recommend looking over how a lease is calculated if you are not familiar with it. If you have a smart phone get this app Leasematic, it's great. Will calculate ur lease within a dollar.
I ordered my car 3 months ago so do have some recent personal experience with the process.

Edit-can u list all the options uttered on the car also.
I appreciate the help, I really do. I have some figures that I know off hand waiting to hear back about the selling price and what rebates (but from what i remember Aprils rebate was not lockable so he said we would look at what was available when the car arrives).

The car build is in my signature.

MSRP - $75,895
Cost -
Residual - 63%
MF - .00135

Ive requested he give me a quote sheet with the final break down with what the dp covers and what invoice is, but he's out until tomorrow.

I didn't choose MSD's but willing to change that up if it makes more sense.

Again thanks and will provide more info when he gets back.
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      04-08-2016, 11:31 PM   #2291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J415
I appreciate the help, I really do. I have some figures that I know off hand waiting to hear back about the selling price and what rebates (but from what i remember Aprils rebate was not lockable so he said we would look at what was available when the car arrives).
The car build is in my signature.
MSRP - $75,895
Cost -
Residual - 63%
MF - .00135
Ive requested he give me a quote sheet with the final break down with what the dp covers and what invoice is, but he's out until tomorrow.
I didn't choose MSD's but willing to change that up if it makes more sense.
Again thanks and will provide more info when he gets back.
No problem. So i put in some numbers in the calculator below to get 850 monthly and 5000 cash due. I used a base MF of .00135 and selling price of 72895 or MSRP - 3K. I used 8% as the sales tax. I believe invoice price on your car is 70500 so my estimated selling price is about 2300 above invoice. U in san fran? people in that area seem to be having a tough time in finding good deals. So with a base MF and 2300 above invoice with imediate allocation, i'm gonna say thats pretty decent. Now mind you, i'm estimating these, you still need to get the selling price and MF from the dealer.
Look through this thread(the 2016 pricing thread) and see what other people in your are are getting. that one is more frequented so might get more feedback there. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...35003&page=164

Also, I would not recommend putting money down on a lease as cap cost reduction. You do not get any benefit by esentially pre paying part of your lease. It's not like you pay less in interest charges. So my advice is Zero cap cost reduction. Think about doing MSDs. You can do up to 7 and ech will lower your monthly payment by 9-10 bucks but you get them back at the end of the lease.
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      04-09-2016, 02:28 AM   #2292
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Originally Posted by visi107 View Post
No problem. So i put in some numbers in the calculator below to get 850 monthly and 5000 cash due. I used a base MF of .00135 and selling price of 72895 or MSRP - 3K. I used 8% as the sales tax. I believe invoice price on your car is 70500 so my estimated selling price is about 2300 above invoice. U in san fran? people in that area seem to be having a tough time in finding good deals. So with a base MF and 2300 above invoice with imediate allocation, i'm gonna say thats pretty decent. Now mind you, i'm estimating these, you still need to get the selling price and MF from the dealer.
Look through this thread(the 2016 pricing thread) and see what other people in your are are getting. that one is more frequented so might get more feedback there. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...35003&page=164

Also, I would not recommend putting money down on a lease as cap cost reduction. You do not get any benefit by esentially pre paying part of your lease. It's not like you pay less in interest charges. So my advice is Zero cap cost reduction. Think about doing MSDs. You can do up to 7 and ech will lower your monthly payment by 9-10 bucks but you get them back at the end of the lease.
He managed to text me what he had written down.

$72,933 is selling price, he doing a base money factor of .00135 and sales tax is 8.75% in SF.

The additional tax and slightly higher selling price look to account for the gap in the leasematic with $5,000 even out the door. The allocation timing worked out great I placed the order on Apr 2nd and it went into production Apr 4th. Scheduled completion Apr 14th.

I was thinking that when I go to take delivery that I would probably go with the MSD's. Is that something that needs to be pre approved with BMWFS?

Thanks again for all your help, it seems by your input that I received a fair deal.
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      04-09-2016, 11:22 PM   #2293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J415 View Post
I appreciate the help, I really do. I have some figures that I know off hand waiting to hear back about the selling price and what rebates (but from what i remember Aprils rebate was not lockable so he said we would look at what was available when the car arrives).

The car build is in my signature.

MSRP - $75,895
Cost -
Residual - 63%
MF - .00135

Ive requested he give me a quote sheet with the final break down with what the dp covers and what invoice is, but he's out until tomorrow.

I didn't choose MSD's but willing to change that up if it makes more sense.

Again thanks and will provide more info when he gets back.
Aprils program runs until May 2 as programs that end on the weekend are valid until the following Monday .Thats if your car is that close to coming in.
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      04-11-2016, 12:27 AM   #2294
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q re: loyalty credit. Does that only get applied when you pickup the car? So if I placed the order today, and my car is tracking to get delivered by end of June, i'll have to see what the June loyalty incentive is (if any)?
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      04-11-2016, 04:16 AM   #2295
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Originally Posted by ga1d3n View Post
q re: loyalty credit. Does that only get applied when you pickup the car? So if I placed the order today, and my car is tracking to get delivered by end of June, i'll have to see what the June loyalty incentive is (if any)?
I believe that is correct. per the program information available at the below link you would need to take delivery of the vehicle by May 2nd.

I myself am hoping they renew this program after May 2nd.

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...ltywaiver.aspx
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      04-11-2016, 10:05 PM   #2296
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The M4's residual is 63%, so $45,800. That is obviously attractive. What would be the actual "street value" of the M4 in 4 year's time?

Selling price $67k (invoice $72,745), or $68k if leasing (BMWFS $1k credit does not apply).

They want .00175 for MF though.

I am conflicted. The Residual on lease is great. But the interest rate is quite high at 4.2% I can re-fi after 6 months with my local CU for 2.19% for 72 months. I don't have to pay the $995 acquisition fee though.

Here is the question: the M4's residual is 63%, so $45,800. That is obviously attractive. What would be the actual "street value" of the M4 in 4 year's time?

My monthly depreciation is $643, and leasing costs are $200, so $844/mo

Now, if I finance for 72 months (let's assume rates go up a bit in 6 months, so 2.39%) at $68k purchase price (the $1k I get discounted if purchased outright), at a payment of $1014/mo for 72, then after 36 mo, I would be at:

$3817 in interest paid
$34272 still owed on the car

If I lease, then after 36 months, I would have no equity with an $843/mo payment, but have paid $6120 less.

Therefore, after 3 years, apples to apples, it looks like $40,392 would be what approximately I would be at with the same payment for purchasing as leasing ($843: I know that interest accrued would change slightly with the smaller payment, but it's close enough for an estimate)

So, then: in 3 years, with around 27k miles on the car, would a new M4 be worth: $45,800 (residual), $40,392 (what I would still owe based on lower interest and saving $1k up front), or somewhere in between? That's really the only variable here. Are M4's holding their values similar to what the E92 M3 was doing after 2 years? It seems like a 2013 E92 M3 w/30k miles is selling for around $44-46k on average. But the E92 may or may not be considered "more" desirable. Also, with the M2 on the horizon, it may pull buyers away from the F80 platform. Those people who love M cars but don't need a car as big or powerful, will opt for an M2?

Not getting the base MF rate costs me $600 or so, FYI. They ditch the acq. fee and add in the higher MF to make $600.

Last edited by KG11; 04-11-2016 at 11:03 PM. Reason: error in math
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      04-12-2016, 05:35 AM   #2297
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I've done the same analysis a dozen times and for me it always comes down to this: worst case scenario, the lease will cost me $1-2k a year extra but I have the guarantee of handing it in in 3 years with no other risks. If I get into an accident, no big deal on a lease. To me that is worth the "potential" extra costs. Best case scenario - the lease could be cheaper if your street value in 3 years is less than the lease residual. Win win. I think if you know you are getting into a new car in 3 years, a lease wins.

Also have you considered multiple security deposits? Takes the interest rate from 3% (MF of .00135) to 2% (.00086). That's what I did and combined with my wife's corporate discount (lowers an additional .0002), my effective interest rate is 1.5%. For me that is only $70/month interest.

PS - My analysis above Is based on me maximizing my lease by planning incentives like UDE, doing Max MSDs, etc. keep in mind that the MF is bumped that much which is the equivalent of adding $1,500 to the price. My experience a lot of dealerships wanted to offer me an attractive price attached to a bumped up MF. I finally found a dealership that gave me a good price AND a base MF. At the end of the day, I don't care how the move the money around, I judge the deal on the overall numbers.
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      04-12-2016, 03:46 PM   #2298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
I've done the same analysis a dozen times and for me it always comes down to this: worst case scenario, the lease will cost me $1-2k a year extra but I have the guarantee of handing it in in 3 years with no other risks. If I get into an accident, no big deal on a lease. To me that is worth the "potential" extra costs. Best case scenario - the lease could be cheaper if your street value in 3 years is less than the lease residual. Win win. I think if you know you are getting into a new car in 3 years, a lease wins.

Also have you considered multiple security deposits? Takes the interest rate from 3% (MF of .00135) to 2% (.00086). That's what I did and combined with my wife's corporate discount (lowers an additional .0002), my effective interest rate is 1.5%. For me that is only $70/month interest.

PS - My analysis above Is based on me maximizing my lease by planning incentives like UDE, doing Max MSDs, etc. keep in mind that the MF is bumped that much which is the equivalent of adding $1,500 to the price. My experience a lot of dealerships wanted to offer me an attractive price attached to a bumped up MF. I finally found a dealership that gave me a good price AND a base MF. At the end of the day, I don't care how the move the money around, I judge the deal on the overall numbers.
That was more or less my analysis as well. They gave me the higher MF, but no acquisition fee; if I can get them down to a MF of .00165 and no fee, its a wash.

In 3 years, you are right, something might change, get a good deal on a used Comp PKG M3, do ED....
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      04-14-2016, 01:03 PM   #2299
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Hello everyone, first time post, not my first M, but would be my first lease.

Currently looking at:

2016 M4
Extended Marino Leather
DCT
Exec Package
Driver Assist Plus
437M Black Wheels
Adaptive M Suspension
Enhanced BT
MPE
CF Exhaust Tips
Black Kidney Grills
Tinted Windows

MSRP 85470
Sale Price 80970
MF 0.00155
Residual 62%
Mileage 12k / yr
Tax 3%

$1064.26 due at signing
$1064.24 payment

How good/bad is that deal?

Thanks in advance!
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      04-14-2016, 01:35 PM   #2300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx1313
Hello everyone, first time post, not my first M, but would be my first lease.

Currently looking at:

2016 M4
Extended Marino Leather
DCT
Exec Package
Driver Assist Plus
437M Black Wheels
Adaptive M Suspension
Enhanced BT
MPE
CF Exhaust Tips
Black Kidney Grills
Tinted Windows

MSRP 85470
Sale Price 80970
MF 0.00155
Residual 62%
Mileage 12k / yr
Tax 3%

$1064.26 due at signing
$1064.24 payment

How good/bad is that deal?

Thanks in advance!
Are any credits included in your sale price? You are about $1100 over invoice and they are marking up your MF. You should at least get them to give you base MF or sell at invoice. Lots of room to negotiate on M4s.
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      04-14-2016, 01:46 PM   #2301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadZarBMR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx1313
Hello everyone, first time post, not my first M, but would be my first lease.

Currently looking at:

2016 M4
Extended Marino Leather
DCT
Exec Package
Driver Assist Plus
437M Black Wheels
Adaptive M Suspension
Enhanced BT
MPE
CF Exhaust Tips
Black Kidney Grills
Tinted Windows

MSRP 85470
Sale Price 80970
MF 0.00155
Residual 62%
Mileage 12k / yr
Tax 3%

$1064.26 due at signing
$1064.24 payment

How good/bad is that deal?

Thanks in advance!
Are any credits included in your sale price? You are about $1100 over invoice and they are marking up your MF. You should at least get them to give you base MF or sell at invoice. Lots of room to negotiate on M4s.
The MF was offered at 0.00175 and I said it was high and asked if they could get closer to 0.0013, hence the 0.00155; doubt they'll be willing to go lower than that.

Not sure about discounts; I had all the wholesale costs with me for a build; asked what a lease would be on this one (on the lot) and CA said they'd split the diff between MSRP and cost/invoice; that's where the $4500 came from btw MSRP & Sale Price.
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      04-15-2016, 03:53 PM   #2302
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I just had a third dealer quote a MF of 0.00175 and act as though I want them to give me the car for free when I ask about getting closer to the base rate.

Is that standard operating procedure to offer people that MF in hopes they don't know any better? Or perhaps CAs quote that to everyone and the finance folks work on the MF after you've agreed to a deal?

As I said in a previous post, I've never leased before. Appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance!
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      04-15-2016, 04:07 PM   #2303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx1313 View Post
I just had a third dealer quote a MF of 0.00175 and act as though I want them to give me the car for free when I ask about getting closer to the base rate.

Is that standard operating procedure to offer people that MF in hopes they don't know any better? Or perhaps CAs quote that to everyone and the finance folks work on the MF after you've agreed to a deal?

As I said in a previous post, I've never leased before. Appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance!
I think it's pretty typical, at least late in the MY cycle when allocations are low.

Personally, I reached out to 4 dealers in CO and 2 in Utah. All but one quoted me full MSRP with full MF markup. I guess if they can't keep them on the lot, why bother discounting them.
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      04-15-2016, 04:32 PM   #2304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzbm3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx1313 View Post
I just had a third dealer quote a MF of 0.00175 and act as though I want them to give me the car for free when I ask about getting closer to the base rate.

Is that standard operating procedure to offer people that MF in hopes they don't know any better? Or perhaps CAs quote that to everyone and the finance folks work on the MF after you've agreed to a deal?

As I said in a previous post, I've never leased before. Appreciate any help.

Thanks in advance!
I think it's pretty typical, at least late in the MY cycle when allocations are low.

Personally, I reached out to 4 dealers in CO and 2 in Utah. All but one quoted me full MSRP with full MF markup. I guess if they can't keep them on the lot, why bother discounting them.
That makes sense, although I've stumbled across what I'm guessing is a customer order that the deal fell through because it's a 2016 SO vert being offered at $500 over invoice. Hoping to snatch it up, but hate to have worked as hard as I have to maintain a damn near perfect credit rating to get stuck with 4.2% on a lease. Especially when the are financing at 2.97!
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      04-15-2016, 06:57 PM   #2305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx1313 View Post
That makes sense, although I've stumbled across what I'm guessing is a customer order that the deal fell through because it's a 2016 SO vert being offered at $500 over invoice. Hoping to snatch it up, but hate to have worked as hard as I have to maintain a damn near perfect credit rating to get stuck with 4.2% on a lease. Especially when the are financing at 2.97!
It's probably going to be hard to get both a discount of $500 over invoice and no MF markup. Maybe possible, but hard.

As a side note, if you want a true least v. own cost comparison I put together pretty comprehensive spreadsheet. It's also useful for tweaking MF and purchase price values. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1249080
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      04-19-2016, 01:49 AM   #2306
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Hi Guys,

Went to my local dealer today to check out the m3 I had inquired about last week since they just got the car in. Anyways the car was previously listed at $79k but ending up coming with MPE, Carbon Fiber Mirror caps/exhaust tips, steel pedals, black grills adding an extra $8165 making the new sell price just over $87k.

They said the best they could do was $85,000 flat with .00175 MF they didn't mention residual but I think it is 64% if my math is right. They quoted me $1002/mo for 10k/year with $7500 down.

I am only willing to put money down in the form of MSD which I do not think they accounted for. Also I did notice the MF is higher than I want as well.

What do you guys think?
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      04-19-2016, 04:12 AM   #2307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnikhil
Hi Guys,

Went to my local dealer today to check out the m3 I had inquired about last week since they just got the car in. Anyways the car was previously listed at $79k but ending up coming with MPE, Carbon Fiber Mirror caps/exhaust tips, steel pedals, black grills adding an extra $8165 making the new sell price just over $87k.

They said the best they could do was $85,000 flat with .00175 MF they didn't mention residual but I think it is 64% if my math is right. They quoted me $1002/mo for 10k/year with $7500 down.

I am only willing to put money down in the form of MSD which I do not think they accounted for. Also I did notice the MF is higher than I want as well.

What do you guys think?
Did you want all those options? If not why pay for them? For a car on the lot with set, non-custom options that you didn't hand select, I personally would need to see more money off, closer to $6-7k off. Otherwise, just order and get exactly what you want. For instance I built mine with only the options I wanted and the MSRP was only $71,100. I got $3,500 off of that before incentives so a net $67,600. There were floor models out there but each had at least $2,000-$15,000 more in options I didn't want so I just custom ordered.
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      04-19-2016, 09:26 AM   #2308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnikhil View Post
Hi Guys,

Went to my local dealer today to check out the m3 I had inquired about last week since they just got the car in. Anyways the car was previously listed at $79k but ending up coming with MPE, Carbon Fiber Mirror caps/exhaust tips, steel pedals, black grills adding an extra $8165 making the new sell price just over $87k.

They said the best they could do was $85,000 flat with .00175 MF they didn't mention residual but I think it is 64% if my math is right. They quoted me $1002/mo for 10k/year with $7500 down.

I am only willing to put money down in the form of MSD which I do not think they accounted for. Also I did notice the MF is higher than I want as well.

What do you guys think?
Wow over $1000 per month, inflated MF, and $7500 down? I would nope right out of there. As Trey1968 mentioned I would expect at least $6000 off, not $2000, and only if it was the perfect car and had everything you wanted.
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      04-19-2016, 11:09 AM   #2309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Did you want all those options? If not why pay for them? For a car on the lot with set, non-custom options that you didn't hand select, I personally would need to see more money off, closer to $6-7k off. Otherwise, just order and get exactly what you want. For instance I built mine with only the options I wanted and the MSRP was only $71,100. I got $3,500 off of that before incentives so a net $67,600. There were floor models out there but each had at least $2,000-$15,000 more in options I didn't want so I just custom ordered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firedown31 View Post
Wow over $1000 per month, inflated MF, and $7500 down? I would nope right out of there. As Trey1968 mentioned I would expect at least $6000 off, not $2000, and only if it was the perfect car and had everything you wanted.
I couldn't agree more guys but unfortunately I am in a little bit of time crunch. If I was able to secure an allocation for May(impossible) I would need to arrange for some alternate source of transportation for the next few months. The sales rep I talked to yesterday made it seem like I wouldn't be able to secure an allocation until July.

The car does have everything I want on it as well as $8k worth of extra stuff. To throw more salt on the wound this seems to be the only m3 available in Seattle.

I did tell them my sweet spot was $80-82k and they said that was not possible. Last night I spec'd out a fully loaded 2015 m3 on cars.com and invoice was $72.9k (idk how the $1500 increase for 2016MY msrp would affect). I will see if they give me a call today and tell them I need them to significantly reduce price and decrease to base money factor if not I will have to pass.
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      04-22-2016, 09:26 AM   #2310
BMV///M3
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May have posted this in the wrong thread. Below is a deal I've been offered. I was straight forward in my email.

Base MF
AW/SO
DCT
Lighting
Adaptive
$1500 above invoice
Black 19's

Here's the lease worksheet. Could i have done better? No telling what can happen with next months residuals or rebates but dealer says I can take and advantage if they improve. Going from 0 payment (current car 335 is paid off) to $884 is a bit of a shock bit I've always wanted an M3.

One question: If I lock (90 days on the west coast) the residual at 63% and it improves in May or June will I need to have another "hard inquiry" on my credit to take advantage of better rates? My credit score is 800+ and I take pride in that bad boy.
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Last edited by BMV///M3; 04-22-2016 at 09:55 AM. Reason: added more text
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