M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG

[Knicks_fan2]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Well the new M4 already has lost a review vs the outgoing C63 AMG

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/p...s-benz-c63-amg

Basically, this was, I love a V8 and that's that. I love the edition 507 but really didn't get much out of this comparison tbh besides the journalist can't get over the exhaust.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Knicks_fan2

Basically, this was, I love a V8 and that's that. I love the edition 507 but really didn't get much out of this comparison tbh besides the journalist can't get over the exhaust.

Actually it was the throttle response and the steering feel , as well as the engine delivery and sound . A pretty significant portion of the driving experience .

[Knicks_fan2]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Actually it was the throttle response and the steering feel , as well as the engine delivery and sound . A pretty significant portion of the driving experience .

Apart from the steering feel, the other factors you mention primarily deal with that car simply being a N/A v8. It's more of a categorical review imo, then a car v. car.

[acey81]

Well, BMW already forced me to the E63 Wagon when they didn't do F11 M5, and now they seem to do the same with the M3. Why are BMW so reluctant to doing wagon M cars? The E34 was available as a wagon. The E39 wasn't, but the E60 was. And now the F10 isn't. BMW are hellbent on creating cars no one has asked for in order to have every inch of the market covered. But they are letting Mercedes and Audi have their way in the performance wagon market. Yet, they are doing M-versions of the X-models.

I want to transport my kids and a bunch of their crap and still have fun BMW. Do you get it?

[DieGrüneHölle]

Well this thread can be closed.

M4 just lost a comparo to the outdated W204 C63.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Knicks_fan2

Basically, this was, I love a V8 and that's that. I love the edition 507 but really didn't get much out of this comparison tbh besides the journalist can't get over the exhaust.

Things I got out of the comparison.

- he doesn't like the S55
- he liked the C63 steering better
- is a big fan of the C63 chassis
- not huge fan of MCT
- his money would go to the 507

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Actually it was the throttle response and the steering feel , as well as the engine delivery and sound . A pretty significant portion of the driving experience .

Well, the steering critique was muted (the 507 is great, M4 is really good).

Anyway, as others have noted, this is a review of the 507, not the base/stock/original C63. How many CSL E90 owners would expect their cars to fare worse than the original/stock E90?

....and, yeah, engine noise. Very eye-of-beholder thing...

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Well, the steering critique was muted (the 507 is great, M4 is really good).

Anyway, as others have noted, this is a review of the 507, not the base/stock/original C63. How many CSL E90 owners would expect their cars to fare worse than the original/stock E90?

....and, yeah, engine noise. Very eye-of-beholder thing...

The only difference between a stock C63 and the 507 is the engine's power output. It basically gets a tune and some borrowed bits from the M159 parts bin (for longevity, not for power). You get some different aesthetic bits (including wheels), too. You can opt for an LSD as well.

The steering, the brakes, the suspension = all identical to the standard LCI C63. The only difference with respect to the brakes is that the 507 Edition gets composite rotors. However, that's been true for every iteration of the C63 that came with the "Performance Package."

When the LCI model came out, the new, stiffer, more aggressive suspension was made uniform throughout the C63 lineup.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The only difference between a stock C63 and the 507 is the engine's power output. It basically gets a tune and some borrowed bits from the M159 parts bin (for longevity, not for power). You get some different aesthetic bits (including wheels), too. You can opt for an LSD as well.

The steering, the brakes, the suspension = all identical to the standard LCI C63. The only difference with respect to the brakes is that the 507 Edition gets composite rotors. However, that's been true for every iteration of the C63 that came with the "Performance Package."

When the LCI model came out, the new, stiffer, more aggressive suspension was made uniform throughout the C63 lineup.

I thought there were some additional "performance studio" modifications to the suspension, etc, that came with the 507?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...13.E2.80.93.29

In any event, it is still a car that has hte benefit of the the mid-cycle facelift (which, as you note, improved/stiffened suspension). Presumably that was done after a few years of production and evaluation to tweak and get the suspension perfect for that car...none of which the F80 has had the benefit of having.

The point I was originally trying to make is that saying it is the "last gen" C63 and comparing to a fresh-out-of-the-womb F80 might not be quite fair as it suggests a 7 year W204 original C63, not the refined version 507. If someone wants to say "this M3 was beaten by the last gen C63" I think the fair comparison would be the original W204 C63 - ie: when it too had newborn dew in its eyes.

....so that would be the difference in chassis feel.

As for throttle response...a car with 25% more HP should have more response, no?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I thought there were some additional "performance studio" modifications to the suspension, etc, that came with the 507?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...13.E2.80.93.29

In any event, it is still a car that has hte benefit of the the mid-cycle facelift (which, as you note, improved/stiffened suspension). Presumably that was done after a few years of production and evaluation to tweak and get the suspension perfect for that car...none of which the F80 has had the benefit of having.

The point I was originally trying to make is that saying it is the "last gen" C63 and comparing to a fresh-out-of-the-womb F80 might not be quite fair as it suggests a 7 year W204 original C63, not the refined version 507. If someone wants to say "this M3 was beaten by the last gen C63" I think the fair comparison would be the original W204 C63 - ie: when it too had newborn dew in its eyes.

....so that would be the difference in chassis feel.

As for throttle response...a car with 25% more HP should have more response, no?

With respect to throttle response, it's not about the horsepower, it's about the fact that you've got a large displacement, normally aspirated motor in one car and a turbocharged car with a decent amount of boost in the other.

Regarding the suspension, after 2012, all C63's came with the same new suspension (which includes a redesigned front axle, a reinforced rear axle and widening of the front track, noticeably stiffer elastokinematics, revised geometry with increased negative camber, and a bigger rear stabilizer bar).

And if the comparison is unfair - it's unfair to the C63 (car is almost 7 years old now).

The new C63 is going to be out in September. It will be faster, lighter, and better-handling than the W204. 500+ horsepower from a 4.0L biturbo V8 will do that. Not to mention the fact that it will have carbon ceramic brakes and weigh at least 220 lbs less than the outgoing model.

Don't misinterpret what I'm trying to say though, I'm still thrilled with what I've seen from the F80 (ordering one). I just think the outgoing C63 deserves the credit it's due.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Don't misinterpret what I'm trying to say though, I'm still thrilled with what I've seen from the F80 (ordering one). I just think the outgoing C63 deserves the credit it's due.

I just want to see a meltdown with the color. Please, please have one.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Don't misinterpret what I'm trying to say though, I'm still thrilled with what I've seen from the F80 (ordering one). I just think the outgoing C63 deserves the credit it's due.

Absolutely. It is (by all accounts) a great car and the best C63 that the AMG Gremlins have put together thus far.

I would also agree that F80 vs. new W205 will be a good comparison.

If MB would get off their MCT horse and at least offer a manual, I would actually seriously consider holding off on the planned late 2014/early 2015 M3 order and do a real head to head (as I mentioned, I quite like the E350 and would be willing to give the W205 a comparison). Alas, they don't.

And I think it is unholy to drive a small sports car (or 'sporty car') that doesn't have a stick. (though I will test drive a DCT....I am fairly stubborn on this point)

Does this refusal to (literally) let go of the stick make me a hypocrite for one who railing against hyper-nostalgia for V8s and hydraulic steering as I have been doing for a few days now? Absolutely. What's your point?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Absolutely. It is (by all accounts) a great car and the best C63 that the AMG Gremlins have put together thus far.

I would also agree that F80 vs. new W205 will be a good comparison.

If MB would get off their MCT horse and at least offer a manual, I would actually seriously consider holding off on the planned late 2014/early 2015 M3 order and do a real head to head (as I mentioned, I quite like the E350 and would be willing to give the W205 a comparison). Alas, they don't.

And I think it is unholy to drive a small sports car (or 'sporty car') that doesn't have a stick. (though I will test drive a DCT....I am fairly stubborn on this point)

Does this refusal to (literally) let go of the stick make me a hypocrite for one who railing against hyper-nostalgia for V8s and hydraulic steering as I have been doing for a few days now? Absolutely. What's your point?

I've actually sincerely enjoyed discussing the topic with you. You actually respond to the points I make, instead of just going off on some other tangent.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I've actually sincerely enjoyed discussing the topic with you. You actually respond to the points I make, instead of just going off on some other tangent.

Revolutionary to have a dialogue in an interweb forum rather than just shout and make ad hominem attacks on each other, huh?

It has been a good discussion - thanks.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Revolutionary to have a dialogue in an interweb forum rather than just shout and make ad hominem attacks on each other, huh?

It has been a good discussion - thanks.

You two are just doing it wrong. Let's hope this won't be the new trend.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Lups

You two are just doing it wrong. Let's hope this won't be the new trend.

(1) I hear the first part of that all the time. Usually from my wife. Or kids. did they put you up to saying that?

(2) 6,000 years of recorded human history tells me the trend ain't about to change....

[Lups]

Originally Posted by myzmak

(1) I hear the first part of that all the time. Usually from my wife. Or kids. did they put you up to saying that?

(2) 6,000 years of recorded human history tells me the trend ain't about to change....

You are hilarious. It's great to read your words, thanks for that. Keep up the attitude, and I too know how it feels to be wrong all the time, apparently the one in a couple who is constantly wrong home, comes to bimmerpost.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Lups

You are hilarious. It's great to read your words, thanks for that. Keep up the attitude, and I too know how it feels to be wrong all the time, apparently the one in a couple who is constantly wrong home, comes to bimmerpost.

Of course we do; its so perfect strangers and teenage boys can ALSO tell us we are wrong about everything to do with cars as well.....

Gluttons for punishment.....

(and it is nice to find other people on here who know how to not take themselves too seriously but rather have fun while pursuing our silly obsessions with german cars.....)

[m3ct]

I was poking around on the mbworld forums to check out the hype around the w205 model (which I'd very much consider if it were out now). Seems like the biggest gripes with the w205 are:

Steering column shifter (seen in spy shots but not confirmed)
Staggered tire widths are 8" and 9"
4.0 not sounding nearly as good as the 6.3...big shocker there
No fender flares
MCT
Glass roof
Looks too similar to CLA

This is all just speculation of course

[Vectors2final]

I thought the ass looked more like the S-Class ass rather than the CLA, and the front is definitely more E than CLA.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by m3ct

I was poking around on the mbworld forums to check out the hype around the w205 model (which I'd very much consider if it were out now). Seems like the biggest gripes with the w205 are:

Steering column shifter (seen in spy shots but not confirmed)
Staggered tire widths are 8" and 9"
4.0 not sounding nearly as good as the 6.3...big shocker there
No fender flares
MCT
Glass roof
Looks too similar to CLA

This is all just speculation of course

It won't look like the CLA because it will have an A-wing front splitter, just like the E63 and S63 coupe. It has different taillights than the CLA.

The tire width information is completely erroneous. Someone did a terrible job faking a W205 C63 order guide (the car isn't even going to be released until September) and "leaked" it. AMG released a statement on the Private Lounge confirming that it was fraudulent.

The gear selector will be on the center console (just like the E63 AMG has it there despite the standard E having it on the column).

Panoramic glass roof is optional, if offered. This would be an option for the coupe.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

It won't look like the CLA because it will have an A-wing front splitter, just like the E63 and S63 coupe. It has different taillights than the CLA.

The tire width information is completely erroneous. Someone did a terrible job faking a W205 C63 order guide (the car isn't even going to be released until September) and "leaked" it. AMG released a statement on the Private Lounge confirming that it was fraudulent.

The gear selector will be on the center console (just like the E63 AMG has it there despite the standard E having it on the column).

Panoramic glass roof is optional, if offered. This would be an option for the coupe.

Have you owned an M3 with DCT? what are your thoughts regarding MCT in C63?