The GTS is an amazing deal right now

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by 2K7

I believe all low mileage, accident free GTS cars in the US will be selling for $100K+ within 5-7 years (conservative estimate). Feel free to wager a bet. I'll bet $10,000. If I'm wrong, I owe you $10K. If you're wrong, you owe me $10K.

Now we're talking. You guys can Venmo me $10k each and I'll hold the bet in escrow.

I uh.....promise to still be around to pay the money out in 5 years 🤞😄

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

What I meant is... right now.

If the base C8 embarrasses it, Kim launches and the economy tanks, sure. Values always subject to change.

The design variables you mention have already taken their toll. Market isn't going to wake up tomorrow and realize it's more race car than grocery getter. Dwindling for sale #'s reflect an increasing number recognizing the value at current prices though.

Couldn't be happier for Vette fans, Had a few prior to my M's and I hope the C8 kills it. Unbelievable car!

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by nickl630

Couldn't be happier for Vette fans, Had a few prior to my M's and I hope the C8 kills it. Unbelievable car!

Never an owner, but couldn't agree more.

I think the American impact on the GTS has already occurred though.

No one was holding the 997 RS to task in light of the C7 Grand Sport's performance. Beating up the GTS, arguing for diminished value because of (presumably) strong C8 performance 4 years post-GTS seems cruel and unusual...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

What I meant is... right now.

If the base C8 embarrasses it, Kim launches and the economy tanks, sure. Values always subject to change.

The design variables you mention have already taken their toll. Market isn't going to wake up tomorrow and realize it's more race car than grocery getter. Dwindling for sale #'s reflect an increasing number recognizing the value at current prices though.

The new Vette was one example. There are many cheaper cars that beat both of our cars around a track assuming driver to driver parity.

The economy as most know has been growing seemingly forever. A recession sooner rather than later is inevitable. Depending on how bad it is we all know what people dump first, luxury items.

Agreed people are picking them up at relatively bargain prices. Even at that they aren’t hard to get a hold of so I guess I don’t see the optimism for prices holding much less appreciating.

[Gomeler]

Originally Posted by nickl630

Agree 100%. It seems like he thinks he's being personally attacked when a counter argument is being presented.

I keep trying to have a good conversation about the collectibily of a car and get "okay make a 10k bet" and apparently the GTS is God's gift to track cars and the CS is a pesant.

I mean, is he wrong? Filthy peasants without water injection to clean their pistons like a civilized car. I vote we do our best to keep the rabble out of here.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

I mean, is he wrong? Filthy peasants without water injection to clean their pistons like a civilized car. I vote we do our best to keep the rabble out of here.

The Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari on and on guys are laughing at this comment to.

[Day Laborer]

From the bottom of the list.

https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/b...7024?cldtidx=4

Appears to have North American seats, with metric instrument cluster.. I wonder if this was a Canadian car.

This is the 3rd North American spec I've seen overseas - it appears that these are being imported back since the market there is stronger.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by minn19

The new Vette was one example. There are many cheaper cars that beat both of our cars around a track assuming driver to driver parity.

The economy as most know has been growing seemingly forever. A recession sooner rather than later is inevitable. Depending on how bad it is we all know what people dump first, luxury items.

Agreed people are picking them up at relatively bargain prices. Even at that they aren’t hard to get a hold of so I guess I don’t see the optimism for prices holding much less appreciating.

What I'm suggesting is, the hit has already occurred. It's almost 2020! Somewhere I wrote at length about how I think the contemporary American track car market impacted GTS values. That was before I owned one.

But see my post just above your last. There's more to future value than whether a previous gen car can hang with the new crowd. Most -- even the very best of the previous gen (997 RS) -- can't.

What will be interesting is if the for sale #'s drop into the single digits, and if at some point there's just a few for sale nationwide. I'm not the only one who wouldn't sell for what I bought it for. I remember when there were well over 100 for sale. Maybe even almost 200, if memory isn't failing me.

But next week there might be 40 for sale. Who knows... I'm more interested in counting the latest collection of rubber marks from the track than I am the thousands gained or lost on this thing. It's endlessly entertaining.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

What I'm suggesting is, the hit has already occurred. It's almost 2020! Somewhere I wrote at length about how I think the contemporary American track car market impacted GTS values. That was before I owned one.

But see my post just above your last. There's more to future value than whether a previous gen car can hang with the new crowd. Most -- even the very best of the previous gen (997 RS) -- can't.

What will be interesting is if the for sale #'s drop into the single digits, and if at some point there's just a few for sale nationwide. I'm not the only one who wouldn't sell for what I bought it for. I remember when there were well over 100 for sale. Maybe even almost 200, if memory isn't failing me.

But next week there might be 40 for sale. Who knows... I'm more interested in counting the latest collection of rubber marks from the track than I am the thousands gained or lost on this thing. It's endlessly entertaining.

Agreed and FWIW, I am rooting for you (us) guys in the end.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Gomeler

I mean, is he wrong? Filthy peasants without water injection to clean their pistons like a civilized car. I vote we do our best to keep the rabble out of here.

17.2 psi, lol...

[66kcode]

If anybody is interested. I have a Black M4 GTS with 9 miles on it, and will be listing it shortly. Still has factory plastic covering most seats, door frame, etc. was originally going to be track car but due to extensive travel it never happened. I have taken on new job putting me back in the city so the car has to go. It's perfect and has been in climate/dust controlled storage since day one and I hold title. I would like to get 90k or best offer. Message me if interested. thanks

[the_scotsman]

Originally Posted by Day Laborer

From the bottom of the list.

https://www.autoscout24.com/offers/b...7024?cldtidx=4

Appears to have North American seats, with metric instrument cluster.. I wonder if this was a Canadian car.

This is the 3rd North American spec I've seen overseas - it appears that these are being imported back since the market there is stronger.

On the pic of the cluster it shows "Efficient Dynamics"



I've seen it in few other GTS listings and the 340 loaner I had, but I've never seen it in my GTS (not sure why I would want too).

Is this just people taking pictures of regular 3 series to make the mileage look lower (bait and switch) or does this "mode" really exist?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

On the pic of the cluster it shows "Efficient Dynamics"



I've seen it in few other GTS listings and the 340 loaner I had, but I've never seen it in my GTS (not sure why I would want too).

Is this just people taking pictures of regular 3 series to make the mileage look lower (bait and switch) or does this "mode" really exist?

There is an option in the idrive menu to change it back. It happened to me after my istep was updated.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Just checked. Only 2 "under 80,000" (the ones I mentioned in my post at 80,000). I do not really consider $79,999 and $79,488 under $80,000...
Sorry about that...Thought one penny did not matter much... $500 may be...

What is noticeable is that we went from around 20 on Cars.com (or Autotrader) last month to around 10 today...
There is a trend.

Congrats to the ones who benefited from those deals!

They are under $80 when the $79k dealers will take offer below that. Sorry about that.

[M3_WC]

I wouldn’t touch these things out of warranty with the inherent S55 crank hub issues. Not to mention the other issues posted in various threads like cracked knuckles. Especially if it will be abused primarily as a track car.

Once the G82 M4 arrives with the S58 and the soon after GTS/CSL. The M4 GTS values will drop and stay stagnant. There is zero correlation between E92 GTS values and F82 GTS values. The E92 actually has a bespoke engine, last of hydraulic steering and NA. There is a reason(s) why they have their value.

[Frozen]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I wouldn’t touch these things out of warranty with the inherent S55 crank hub issues. Not to mention the other issues posted in various threads like cracked knuckles. Especially if it will be abused primarily as a track car.

Once the G82 M4 arrives with the S58 and the soon after GTS/CSL. The M4 GTS values will drop and stay stagnant. There is zero correlation between E92 GTS values and F82 GTS values. The E92 actually has a bespoke engine, last of hydraulic steering and NA. There is a reason(s) why they have their value.

I agree with this.

But I still want one.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Once the G82 M4 arrives with the S58 and the soon after GTS/CSL. The M4 GTS values will drop and stay stagnant. There is zero correlation between E92 GTS values and F82 GTS values. The E92 actually has a bespoke engine, last of hydraulic steering and NA. There is a reason(s) why they have their value.

Base or comp G82 will be a very different car than the GTS. Especially if all-wheel. I don't see choosing between the two anymore than a 991.2 GT3/GT3 RS owner would be tempted by the 992 S.

New GTS/CSL will be 140-150? IF BMW deliver to the States. GTS is already half it's value. Not sure why this would create strong downward pressure.

In Europe where both GTS versions are offered, there is price/value correlation. Both have maintained value.

The E92 wins in the uniqueness, "last of" category, for sure. But the M4 GTS could be the last of the track-focused BMWs for the States, period.

I hope they deliver U.S. versions with roll bars and proper bucket seats in abundance, but I'm not optimistic.

[spool twice]

The US market spoke regarding new GTS and CS sale, it makes me suspect if they even bring the G-series GTS/CS to our market.

also, FWIW the GTS's roll-cage is +35lbs, an M4 rear seat is 40lbs.

the last GTS with full fluids (not the dry-weight BMW quotes), was 3,553lbs, not too far off from a CS. The items tacked onto the GTS off-sets the weight savings to where the weight between the base/comp/cs/gts isn't a big spread.

With that being said, I feel the used market GTS will be pretty hot in the years to come where things begin to level out price wise (and not to take it off-topic, even the CS to a certain extent, but not quite GTS-like money obviously).

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

The E92 wins in the uniqueness, "last of" category, for sure. But the M4 GTS could be the last of the track-focused BMWs for the States, period.

M4 GTS will not be the last track focused BMW for the States. Manuals are coming too. Even the F8x isn't done yet...resident insider ynguldyn is pretty convinced there is another M2 coming slotting above the yet to be released M2CS. The S55 swan song.

[///M3ric]

Whether the GTS is the last track focused car coming here or not is questionable, Im inclined to believe there wont be another one for a while. But even if they do bring a new one the M4 GTS might be the last good looking one for a while... these new renders make the future look rough.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by ///M3ric

Whether the GTS is the last track focused car coming here or not is questionable, Im inclined to believe there wont be another one for a while. But even if they do bring a new one the M4 GTS might be the last good looking one for a while... these new renders make the future look rough.

Breathed a sigh of relief when I saw this alt render from Car. Can work with this. Even if the GTS/CSL is good looking, it will be awd.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I wouldn’t touch these things out of warranty with the inherent S55 crank hub issues. Not to mention the other issues posted in various threads like cracked knuckles. Especially if it will be abused primarily as a track car.

Once the G82 M4 arrives with the S58 and the soon after GTS/CSL. The M4 GTS values will drop and stay stagnant. There is zero correlation between E92 GTS values and F82 GTS values. The E92 actually has a bespoke engine, last of hydraulic steering and NA. There is a reason(s) why they have their value.

+1 S58 has a completely redesigned crank hub.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

M4 GTS will not be the last track focused BMW for the States. Manuals are coming too. Even the F8x isn't done yet...resident insider ynguldyn is pretty convinced there is another M2 coming slotting above the yet to be released M2CS. The S55 swan song.

If they actually build a M2 CSL after the CS, it will be the car to have no doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if the M2 CS ends up being more sought after than the M4 GTS, just because of the manual option.

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Even if the GTS/CSL is good looking, it will be awd.

Not the current consensus, there will be RWD G8x base model. I have no doubts a GTS or CSL will be RWD as well. If they offer manuals too, that is another nail in the coffin for M4 GTS values.