KW HAS

[Dippydo]

Looking at the KW HAS kit for lowering an F82 and curious now that they have been out for some time if those of you are still happy with them. I had coil overs before and KW was the only one that did not make noise and rode very well. These types of kits in other brands seem to knock and clank so if some of you have this kit let me know your thoughts.

I did a search and no one really mentioned these as of lately. A lot of talks in 2015 about getting them, but no long term use which is what I am looking to get information about.

[AlterZgo]

They are OK for what they are - height adjustable springs. Convenient for lowering your car exactly as much as you want. With correct install, they are noise free and maintenance free. However, with incorrect install, you will run into noise issues.

I moved on from the KW HAS b/c they wore out the stock shocks too fast and the rebound damping basically went to shit after a few thousand miles. So I'm on full coilovers now.

If I had to do it over again, I'd skip the KW HAS kit and go with V3s or some other coilovers.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

They are OK for what they are - height adjustable springs. Convenient for lowering your car exactly as much as you want. With correct install, they are noise free and maintenance free. However, with incorrect install, you will run into noise issues.

I moved on from the KW HAS b/c they wore out the stock shocks too fast and the rebound damping basically went to shit after a few thousand miles. So I'm on full coilovers now.

If I had to do it over again, I'd skip the KW HAS kit and go with V3s or some other coilovers.

Your stock shocks wore out that fast? Within a year?

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

Your stock shocks wore out that fast? Within a year?

Yes. There was a noticeable loss of damping as time went on. In the beginning, they felt great. No so much after about 6000 miles or so.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Yes. There was a noticeable loss of damping as time went on. In the beginning, they felt great. No so much after about 6000 miles or so.

Did you keep it in sport mode all the time? To wear out in 6000 miles seems very abnormal. The Dinan kit is very similar and I would not think they would introduce a kit that would wear out the dampers that fast as that would be covered under their warranty. Never really read this issue being widespread on the M5 boards so kind of shocking.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

Did you keep it in sport mode all the time? To wear out in 6000 miles seems very abnormal. The Dinan kit is very similar and I would not think they would introduce a kit that would wear out the dampers that fast as that would be covered under their warranty. Never really read this issue being widespread on the M5 boards so kind of shocking.

No. I have passive suspension.

This is all personal opinion. I am sure you can find people who are 100% satisfied w/ the suspension even after 20K miles. Heck, there are people who are running H&R springs that basically take away all suspension travel, yet they are perfectly content w/ them.

However, I have had many different suspension setups on all of my past cars and have had full coilover set ups before where the dampers are matched to the springs. The KW HAS just didn't cut it for me after several thousand miles.

For me, the car became noticeably more bouncey and lost rebound damping. What does this mean? Well, when I hit a large bump at freeway speeds, the suspension used to soak up the bump well. One oscillation and the car would flatten out. After several thousand miles, it would bounce up and down a few times and feel less stable - especially in the rear.

The car was not overly lowered by any means. In fact, it was set fairly high. I also only drive on the roads and don't overtax the suspension much either.

Why did the stock dampers wear out so fast? I don't know. I am just as disappointed as I expected an M3 to have firmer dampers that may be able to handle stiffer springs for longer than 6K miles.

But, like I said, there are many that seem happy w/ this kit and you may be as well. However, since you've had full KW coilovers in the past, you may feel the same way as I do after several thousand miles w/ a spring only kit.

[AlterZgo]

I just want to clarify - the dampers are not completely shot. It's not like there is zero damping. There is still some damping, but just not as well damped as when the car was new. This is normal for ALL dampers to break in after a couple of thousand miles regardless of whether you run stock springs or aftermarket springs. It's just not as pronounced w/ stock springs b/c the spring rates are softer and the car is not lowered so you are getting full suspension travel, less bottoming out, less pogoing, etc.

In my experience, the KW HAS just didn't seem well matched to the broken-in stock dampers. The car no longer felt like a well damped German sports sedan. It felt like any typical car that is lowered w/ springs only and has dampers that can't cope w/ the spring rate.

[Dippydo]

Thanks for the great explanation. I was only asking because I've read others that said they thought it wore out faster because they had it in sport mode all the time. I am very leery of the HAS because back in the old days I had Ground Control which is similar and they were noisy and rode like crap. Then with my F30 I first had H&R coils and thought WTF are these. Road like a bouncy skateboard. Ended up replacing them with KW V2 and they were perfect. Just trying to avoid that trial and error thing again like the F30. I agree you are right some people are ok with clunks and noises and poor ride quality. They say, "well that comes with a lowered car. You lose ride quality by going low." Which I disagree if you buy the right system. Well I was hoping the HAS would be a good solution as I felt the same the M series should have a better damper, but may just fork out the extra cash and just go full coil. I haven't read anyone really criticize the DInan HAS kit though. Almost twice as much but completely different spring rates and type which may be the better option over KW if going with a HAS kit. Thanks again !

[BMW9]

I had KW HAS for about 4K miles and found them to be an improvement. A good bang for the buck. If you can spend more money the V3s are a bigger improvement. It depends on how much you want to spend.
AlterZgo did you have EDC or non EDC?
Maybe your car was slammed all the way down. I had no dampener issues with my HAS kit but over time I got used to them and started feel like I needed more dampening and began to crave a tighter ride so I went with v3. Who knows after a while I may want to get club sports.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by BMW9

I had KW HAS for about 4K miles and found them to be an improvement. A good bang for the buck. If you can spend more money the V3s are a bigger improvement. It depends on how much you want to spend.
AlterZgo did you have EDC or non EDC?
Maybe your car was slammed all the way down. I had no dampener issues with my HAS kit but over time I got used to them and started feel like I needed more dampening and began to crave a tighter ride so I went with v3. Who knows after a while I may want to get club sports.

I had passive suspension and the car was lowered fairly conservatively - like 1" front and .5" rear. However after several thousand miles the car settled noticeably - about 1/4" all around. I raised it up to no avail. Car still didn't ride or handle well anymore.

The fact that you felt you needed more dampening over time sounds like you experienced the same thing I did, i.e. stock shocks just weren't cutting it anymore.

[robbys3m3]

I have passive suspension and overall am happy with the HAS. I'm also lowered quite moderately but am really still happy with the ride quality nearly two years later. I ran 2 different sets of H&R and the HAS felt much better on my car, but unfortunately I only ran stock springs for a week and don't remember how they felt. I do have noise though on incline/decline with spring bind. I like the kit enough though to just live with it and really its not that often. I had a thread about it a while back and KW told me it was inherit in the f80 suspension design fwiw. ive had 4 qualified installers all look over the install and there are no issues with the install...just how it is it seems and I'm OK with it now.

[BMW9]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

I had passive suspension and the car was lowered fairly conservatively - like 1" front and .5" rear. However after several thousand miles the car settled noticeably - about 1/4" all around. I raised it up to no avail. Car still didn't ride or handle well anymore.

The fact that you felt you needed more dampening over time sounds like you experienced the same thing I did, i.e. stock shocks just weren't cutting it anymore.

I'm pretty sure I remember how my stock suspension felt like. The KW HAS firmed things up a bit and helped reduce the bounce in the rear at high speeds. My EDC settings still worked meaning that I could feel the difference between comfort, sport and sport plus. I just felt like I needed more after a while.

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

I just want to clarify - the dampers are not completely shot. It's not like there is zero damping. There is still some damping, but just not as well damped as when the car was new. This is normal for ALL dampers to break in after a couple of thousand miles regardless of whether you run stock springs or aftermarket springs. It's just not as pronounced w/ stock springs b/c the spring rates are softer and the car is not lowered so you are getting full suspension travel, less bottoming out, less pogoing, etc.

In my experience, the KW HAS just didn't seem well matched to the broken-in stock dampers. The car no longer felt like a well damped German sports sedan. It felt like any typical car that is lowered w/ springs only and has dampers that can't cope w/ the spring rate.

I saw in your earlier comment that your shocks wore pre-maturely??

Just curious, were there any sounds accompanying the stiffness, sounds specifically related to hard or slow cornering?

It may be very possible that your dissatisfaction is related to improper installation.

A majority of people (that I've assisted) say these springs improve the performance in corners and only adds a hint of stiffness by comparison to stock. I know a handful of people who daily these springs and have well over 10-15k miles on the HAS with no issues.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Justin | AutoTalent

I saw in your earlier comment that your shocks wore pre-maturely??

Just curious, were there any sounds accompanying the stiffness, sounds specifically related to hard or slow cornering?

It may be very possible that your dissatisfaction is related to improper installation.

A majority of people (that I've assisted) say these springs improve the performance in corners and only adds a hint of stiffness by comparison to stock. I know a handful of people who daily these springs and have well over 10-15k miles on the HAS with no issues.

No odd sounds. I wouldn't say they were too stiff. If anything, after a while, they felt too soft due to some loss of damping by the stock shocks. They were purchased and installed by EAS so I'm sure they were installed properly as they have a ton of experience w/ these cars.

As I indicated in my prior posts, I'm sure many people (majority?) are totally fine w/ what the KW HAS provides. I was too for a while. I'm not like some of the forum members who go through suspension set ups or exhausts or rims like toothbrushes. I really wanted my KW HAS set up to last as long as I owned the M. Unfortunately, they just didn't cut it for me.

Justin - I'm sure you've driven virtually all the different suspension set ups and you'd probably agree with my point that none of these spring only setups can provide what full coilovers provide in terms of both handling and ride quality, right?

[Justin.AutoTalent]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

No odd sounds. I wouldn't say they were too stiff. If anything, after a while, they felt too soft due to some loss of damping by the stock shocks. They were purchased and installed by EAS so I'm sure they were installed properly as they have a ton of experience w/ these cars.

As I indicated in my prior posts, I'm sure many people (majority?) are totally fine w/ what the KW HAS provides. I was too for a while. I'm not like some of the forum members who go through suspension set ups or exhausts or rims like toothbrushes. I really wanted my KW HAS set up to last as long as I owned the M. Unfortunately, they just didn't cut it for me.

Justin - I'm sure you've driven virtually all the different suspension set ups and you'd probably agree with my point that none of these spring only setups can provide what full coilovers provide in terms of both handling and ride quality, right?

Yes I absolutely agree, coil overs > springs!

No spring can compensate for a full suspension that has been properly R&D to work together.

Just thought I would ask about noise, because I've heard a handful of complaints about creaking on turns or cracking which is often leads to a very negative experience.

[smr123]

I have had KW HAS springs, w/passive for about 1500 miles including a couple of track days, dropped 25mm front 12mm rear. It is slightly stiffer in general but dampers have not degraded at all. I have a hard time understanding how KW springs can effect damper life more than oem springs, unless dropped considerably. Must be more to this story

[mmmmQuattro]

I originally thought about going with coilovers, but since I have active suspension, it seems a waste.
So HAS should be the best option.
But after reading this, perhaps coil-overs are better than active. ???

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

I originally thought about going with coilovers, but since I have active suspension, it seems a waste.
So HAS should be the best option.
But after reading this, perhaps coil-overs are better than active. ???

I hear you, but I have talked to many now that had no issues. That's the problem with the web is that the majority of people that write reviews are triggered because they had a bad response. People that have good responses don't typically write posts. Golan from AutoTalent told me KW is making a version 2 of the HAS that will be ready in a few weeks that will allow you to run wider tires like the Dinan HAS kit and I would imagine as good as KW is, they will address any issues they came across that were common and solve them. I could be wrong but they are a great company.

[LKW EURO]

I have had the KW HAS Installed on my f80 m3 for about 7k miles and have recently felt as if my car bounces more than it did before. Car has 12k total on it with EDC and I find myself driving it in sport plus mode to control the up and down (bouncing) motion. I dont think the KW springs are at fault, but instead that I have grown accustom to the stiff nature of an M car. My other vehicles have full coilovers and ride much stiffer than my f80 so I may not be a great judge of ride quality. I just found it very interesting that someone else felt the same way.

[Arcades]

I firmly believe it is probably just placebo effect. It comes in play whenever you get used to something, it feels off when it actually hasn't.

While my experience with suspension isn't expert level but I don't think springs would wear out your stock unless something is wrong. BMW wouldn't have choose KW HAS basically for their system if this was true. Either that or they don't care :P

[kcajih]

as far as I know, HAS kit is designed for EDC suspension only, also you should remap EDC after springs installation

[allinon72]

I don't really see a reason to go KW HAS over MP HAS for a car with active suspension. The KW will get you lower but that's about it.