The P-Car got me...

[jdarwin]

My "car group" of friends are dominated by 911's - four GT3RS's and the like. As beautiful as those cars are, the M3 was always my halo car. To me, the M3/911 comparisons are futile - they are completely different cars/designs. A completely different driving experience. To me, the F80 is so versatile. I can go to the track one day and take the family (if my kids weren't grown) on vacation the next. It's an incredibly practical performance car that provides me with all the fun I could ask for. The 911 is a fantastic piece of machinery but for what the F80 represents for me (price/practicality/value), it's hard to beat.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by DenaS54M

I'm actually thinking of selling my F80M CP and making the P jump as well...

TBH the M blows the Porsche car out of the water in terms of torque/power, but I can tell the Porsche GT3 would really shine in my local mountains (Angeles Crest) or any local track. I've been driving my buddies 997.2 GT3 and when he bought it ,we drove down in my F80. I drove the GT3 back home and instantly noticed it's lack of power, but it's N/A. The power delivery is all at the top. The M's low end torque is instant! I did notice when in the upper rev range in the GT3, that thing pulls.. The Porsche is a more track focused car from the factory and the M is more civil, granted it has loads of power.

I'm looking at 997.1 GT3/991.1 S cars right now. The 997 GT3 cars are super rowdy and I can't see any Girlfriend wanting to ride inside. My buddy has the GMG oval exhaust and you can hear that car a block away. The good thing about Porsche cars, is the availability of parts and shops that can work on any year of the cars.

The 997 GT3 cars are very purposeful though. Not the kind of car you can daily, run errands or even casually drive around. It requires so much attention with the gear box and clutch situation. That being said, I would love to have one for a weekend squirt up the highway kind of car. Drive up to the mountains.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...60afd412_c.jpg[/img]

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b73496e9_c.jpg[/img]

You're just comparing the M3 to one trim of a dozen trims lol. GT3 is a great car, but it's NA so it'll definitely be lacking torque as opposed to FI cars. I loved every M3 I've owned, but as soon as I drove a 991.2 I immediately knew it was the perfect sports car.

Granted, they are both very different vehicles for different purposes and with different price points. But look at the M4GTS. still couldn't beat a 991 GTS around the track despite similar price points and the M4GTS being completely track purpose built.

Ideally, one would have a 991/992 for joy rides and an F80 or F90 as a daily. They each dominate their respective segments.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by paliknight

You're just comparing the M3 to one trim of a dozen trims lol. GT3 is a great car, but it's NA so it'll definitely be lacking torque as opposed to FI cars. I loved every M3 I've owned, but as soon as I drove a 991.2 I immediately knew it was the perfect sports car.

Granted, they are both very different vehicles for different purposes and with different price points. But look at the M4GTS. still couldn't beat a 991 GTS around the track despite similar price points and the M4GTS being completely track purpose built.

Ideally, one would have a 991/992 for joy rides and an F80 or F90 as a daily. They each dominate their respective segments.

The M4 GTS can’t even beat a 991.2S (on summer tires) which has huge power, tq, and aero disadvantages.
There is a massive delta on how power is made between a GT3 and a turbo engine. The GT3 is stupid fast (991.2 runs something like 11.0@127) and still doesn’t have that much HP rated at 500. Aside from that, it is IMO the most exhilarating engine on the market today without a doubt. The way it pulls above 5k and then 7,8,9k rpm is something I don’t think is matched in many road cars. Certainly. Not anything below 500k.
I agree though, the 991.2 is about as close to perfection as you get. I love mine!

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

The M4 GTS can’t even beat a 991.2S (on summer tires) which has huge power, tq, and aero disadvantages.
There is a massive delta on how power is made between a GT3 and a turbo engine. The GT3 is stupid fast (991.2 runs something like 11.0@127) and still doesn’t have that much HP rated at 500. Aside from that, it is IMO the most exhilarating engine on the market today without a doubt. The way it pulls above 5k and then 7,8,9k rpm is something I don’t think is matched in many road cars. Certainly. Not anything below 500k.
I agree though, the 991.2 is about as close to perfection as you get. I love mine!

Yeah it's really sad to be honest. Forum members always used the price delta between an M4 and a 911 to justify the difference in performance, but even when BMW charged 911 prices, it was still the same outcome. I love BMW and most cars I've owned have been BMWs, but I recognize value. My favorite thing about the GT3 is that GLORIOUS sound.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by paliknight

You're just comparing the M3 to one trim of a dozen trims lol. GT3 is a great car, but it's NA so it'll definitely be lacking torque as opposed to FI cars. I loved every M3 I've owned, but as soon as I drove a 991.2 I immediately knew it was the perfect sports car.

Granted, they are both very different vehicles for different purposes and with different price points. But look at the M4GTS. still couldn't beat a 991 GTS around the track despite similar price points and the M4GTS being completely track purpose built.

Ideally, one would have a 991/992 for joy rides and an F80 or F90 as a daily. They each dominate their respective segments.

to be fair, the m3gts is a limited edition track special, it whereas the gt3 is not "limited", bmw pricing was too high I would say for sure.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

to be fair, the m3gts is a limited edition track special, it whereas the gt3 is not "limited", bmw pricing was too high I would say for sure.

I don't understand where this fits into the argument? Are you saying that because it's "limited" it gets a pass for being a "track edition special" even though it's not even as good of a track car as the non "limited", non "track edition special" p cars?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Flacht3

I don't understand where this fits into the argument? Are you saying that because it's "limited" it gets a pass for being a "track edition special" even though it's not even as good of a track car as the non "limited", non "track edition special" p cars?

I am saying that because it is a very limited model (300 in usa), bmw did not price it to be competitive to the market. Like most limited run items, they are never meant to be bargain shopped.

A 991.2 Speedster for example, is limited to 1948 units worldwide at 275k base price. You would be missing the point if you are trying to compare performance specs vs a cheaper droptop. It's a limited run of a version of a special car, that's it.

I mean, would you compare it to a McLaren 720s Spyder which is about the same price and would spank the shit out of it?

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I am saying that because it is a very limited model (300 in usa), bmw did not price it to be competitive to the market. Like most limited run items, they are never meant to be bargain shopped.

A 991.2 Speedster for example, is limited to 1948 units worldwide at 275k base price. You would be missing the point if you are trying to compare performance specs vs a cheaper droptop. It's a limited run of a version of a special car, that's it.

I mean, would you compare it to a McLaren 720s Spyder which is about the same price and would spank the shit out of it?

I understand what you're saying, but the GTS couldn't even beat a C2S which is in M3CS price range.

So I think BMW May have overpriced it by 10-20k or so, but since an M4CS comes in around 115k (with CCBs) the M4GTS would have been priced at least 140k appropriately.