16' M4 FBO, GC Turbos - misfires @ 6400+

[belittle]

Hey all. Been struggling with a misfire issues now for the past week and I'm running out of ideas. In the last month I've done the VTT splined crank + GC turbos. Car is FBO minus an upgraded heat exchanger. All work is done myself, have my own shop, lift, etc. Car is a 2016 M4 6spd Manual w/ 20k miles. I'm the 2nd owner, car was bone stock when I purchased it. Currently on a 1st revision of a e85 tune.

Current issue I'm having is a slight misfire (not enough for the ECM to pick it up) at around 6400+. I've seen this now on the OTS 2H E30 tune (only ran for a week so not alot of data) and now on a custom E85 tune. Boost looks to be around ~27psi when it happens on both files with decent timing (however some pulls there is a little timing pulled) but a small boost deviation.

Some logs:

Stage 2H OTS E30 tune: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb0...90c66865b9c2f4

E85 GC Custom tune Log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fc1...90c6452fb881ff

You can see the misfires happening at around 6200 rpm with some oscillation in the Bank1 and Bank2 AFR.

So far I've done:

• Smoke tested the car, with no leaks found.
• Started with NGK 97506 gapped @ 0.020 (purchased from FCP)
• New Delphi Coils, originals where on during the 2H E30 file
• NGK 97506 gapped @ 0.018 (Idles like shit, almost made it worse) (log:https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fbd...90c63427322a35)
• Another new set from Orielly's NGK gapped @ 0.020
• Checked the E85 from the station again, new tank of gas

At this point, I really do think I still have an ignition problem but unsure. Doesn't seem to be a boost leak as my deviation is good with no major correction on the wastegate duty cycle. Fuel is there, airflow is there. Anyone have an ideas/thoughts?

[FriedPiston]

.018" gap on full E85 is supposed to idle like it's going to stall in colder temps, especially with Cold Start disabled.

Go back to 0.018" and figure out how to keep the car to hold idle, like setting HVAC blower fan to Max with AC on prior to starting the engine.

[belittle]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

.018" gap on full E85 is supposed to idle like it's going to stall in colder temps, especially with Cold Start disabled.

Go back to 0.018" and figure out how to keep the car to hold idle, like setting HVAC blower fan to Max with AC on prior to starting the engine.

I did have for day and a few logs with the NGK's gapped at 0.018. This set had about 300 miles on them however they did have alot of regaps. See here: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fbd...90c63427322a35

All the searching (some posts by yourself FriedPiston) I've done says to gap at 0.018 if your having misfire issues at a bigger gap, hence my attempt with a gap at 0.018. I'll regap them tomorrow and try again with the brand new plugs. I'm going to try a few different coil packs incase there is an issue with the Delphi.

[landonvan]

Who is tuning this. Why are you so lean up top. 13.5 afr.

[M-terkait]

are you sure you are not running out of fuel?

[spool twice]

perhaps the intercooler core is starting to leak causing the issue up top as well as the AFR being strange?

[belittle]

Originally Posted by landonvan

Who is tuning this. Why are you so lean up top. 13.5 afr.

Carly Jordan tune. After the 1st Revision log was sent, I've only received one message asking about spark plugs, which was a week ago. Not the tuners responsibility to diag my car if it's some kind of hardware problem. Being proactive about trying to solve the problem.

I can only assume since it's targeting that AFR it's part of the 'custom' part and the fact that I'm running straight E85. The Stage 2H E30 targeted ~13AFR around the same point but still hiccupped around the same. Making me think it's hardware related and not tuner related.

Originally Posted by spool twice

perhaps the intercooler core is starting to leak causing the issue up top as well as the AFR being strange?

One of the only things not swapped yet. Good black Friday deals, so might get one regardless. No internal fluid leaks that I can see. Had to drain all the fluids for the crank hub so I refilled it fully, checked last night and still full.

[TopJimmy]

Check Cary's tune in BM3 and make sure the HPFP setting is on "Original" and not OEM/Spool/Custom/etc. I had a similar "out of fuel" issue with a different custom tune.

Also, add LPFP to your logs, I think it's on the custom list of tags.

If you're tuning custom they should help u diagnose. You paid good. F80Paul is very helpful to me.

[belittle]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Check Cary's tune in BM3 and make sure the HPFP setting is on "Original" and not OEM/Spool/Custom/etc. I had a similar "out of fuel" issue with a different custom tune.

Also, add LPFP to your logs, I think it's on the custom list of tags.

If you're tuning custom they should help u diagnose. You paid good. F80Paul is very helpful to me.

I didn't touch the HPFP option, showing the 'choose' selection, so that's an interesting point. Of course, the map is in request state, so I can't reflash it without a Rev 2 sent......

Agreed on the help from the tuner, I work normally during the week but I've been off this past week so wanted to get some data points. During a normal week I can only work on the car on Friday-Sunday so I suppose good but bad timing this last week with the holiday.

Thanks for all the help from everyone! Really appreciate it.

[TopJimmy]

If you have already received a first custom map or a revision you can still change the setting and re-flash. Even if waiting for next revision. Try setting HPFP to Original and report back.

[FriedPiston]

If you're breaking up with a conservative OTS map with less ethanol content, you will be sure to break up even more with full E85.

Do some logging without ethanol, then move your way up as you address any issues.

[TopJimmy]

On your E30 pull the HPFPs seem to be running short of full pressure all across the pull.

On the E85 pull, which is only at the end of the log, shows closer to full HPFP hitting a proper target but still falling short at high RPMs.

I still think the HPFP setting in BM3 is your first check-and-test, using your map for whatever fuel is in-tank now. If you 're full of E85 just stick with it and set that HPFP to Original, then re-flash.

On the point FriedPiston made, if you're almost empty or down to 5gal in-tank of E85 you could top off with 93 octane and test using the OTS 2H E30 map. The OTS map is much easier for testing and logging to find problems.

For logging and getting help online I find that capturing a single clean 4th gear pull from 1500 to 7000 gives a good look. You have to get a good logging spot where you can run from 0% pedal to 100% pedal, from 25mph all the way to 135mph. Road must be SAFE (#1) clear and flat with no curves for a full mile. You should be in manual trans mode with DCT fully off (hold button down) and in Sport Plus mode. For safety I suggest Comfort steering (no intervention) mode and Sport+ suspension (most firm) mode.

[belittle]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

If you're breaking up with a conservative OTS map with less ethanol content, you will be sure to break up even more with full E85.

Do some logging without ethanol, then move your way up as you address any issues.

No issues with the stock turbos on the OTS E30 tune, factory plugs and original coils. Maybe prudent to go back to that OTS E30 tune and see what happens.

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

On your E30 pull the HPFPs seem to be running short of full pressure all across the pull.

On the E85 pull, which is only at the end of the log, shows closer to full HPFP hitting a proper target but still falling short at high RPMs.

I still think the HPFP setting in BM3 is your first check-and-test, using your map for whatever fuel is in-tank now. If you 're full of E85 just stick with it and set that HPFP to Original, then re-flash.

On the point FriedPiston made, if you're almost empty or down to 5gal in-tank of E85 you could top off with 93 octane and test using the OTS 2H E30 map. The OTS map is much easier for testing and logging to find problems.

For logging and getting help online I find that capturing a single clean 4th gear pull from 1500 to 7000 gives a good look. You have to get a good logging spot where you can run from 0% pedal to 100% pedal, from 25mph all the way to 135mph. Road must be SAFE (#1) clear and flat with no curves for a full mile. You should be in manual trans mode with DCT fully off (hold button down) and in Sport Plus mode. For safety I suggest Comfort steering (no intervention) mode and Sport+ suspension (most firm) mode.

Maybe it's the design of the tuners idea on how to handle E85 but it seems to be on the custom tune it's always requesting some max PSI for fueling of 3756psi when the throttle angle is near 100%. I do see it never really gets there through the full pull. Could be pointing toward the wrong HFPF settings but you'd think that would be the 1st thing asked a week ago when I sent over my logs?

No 93 in Arizona but I can try the 91 map. I'd assume a lower boost request, so would be a good start. I'm going to try the HPFP settings today with my tank of e85 and see if that helps.

[belittle]

So unless I'm really missing something, I can't make any changes to reflash since I requested a new Rev....

Custom tune:


OTS Tune:

[TopJimmy]

Okay, my fault...Paul works a little different. I never have to request a change through BM3, we email and he just uploads the new map and it becomes available to me. I guess when you do the "request change" inside BM3 it locks your current custom map from re-flash.

I suggest you email the tuner and ask him to release the revision since you're blocked from a re-flash right now.

Also, when you get unblocked make sure all the settings under "configure" have a setting picked. To go over what works best for tuning and logging please PM me. There's a lot which really helps your tuner get things dialed in really good.

[landonvan]

In the top right corner. There should be a config. Tab. In there make sure the HPFP is set to original. Mine somehow got set to oem and I was having the same issue of running out of fuel.

[TopJimmy]

How'd it work out?

[c4ss]

And this is why I switched from Cary to Paul. Paul much more helpful with stuff like this.

[TopJimmy]

It looks like from the first post that he bought an OTS Cary map that Vargas sells with the GC turbos. The Plus turbos probably benefit more from a custom tune, since I would expect there's much more specific tuning that can be done. An OTS map, even Cary's GC map from Vargas, wouldn't push limits too high since it has to run on a bunch of cars (M2-3-4).

[belittle]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

It looks like from the first post that he bought an OTS Cary map that Vargas sells with the GC turbos. The Plus turbos probably benefit more from a custom tune, since I would expect there's much more specific tuning that can be done. An OTS map, even Cary's GC map from Vargas, wouldn't push limits too high since it has to run on a bunch of cars (M2-3-4).

Been busy with work but got an update last Monday. Then another Thursday afternoon. This is a custom tune, not a OTS. I ran the BM3 Stage 2H E30 for a week before buying the custom tune. Have the non + turbos.

Still misfires and on going. No change with the 'original' setting on the HPFP from prior discussion. I'm almost down to -- E85 so going to do a little testing today with no E maps.

Do have to say, the car is savage up till the misfires. I have trouble with traction with any temps in my tires below 65F. Has to be mid day, can't be at night. Will spin even in 4th at peak torque. This is on RE71's 285/35/19. I have a set of Mickey Thompson SS ET's on throwing on the stock wheels I'm going to get installed today or tomorrow.

Stock clutch isn't happy either, ordered a clutchmasters setup 2 weeks ago so going to try and find time to install that this weekend.

Lastest Log:
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fca...90c6099b514915 (You can see me loosing traction @80mph......)
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fc9...729b21be8d7de8

[TopJimmy]

Check the ground wires and grounding nuts that come off the coil packs.

Pull plugs and re-gap to 0.022". Inspect like a mofo! I had a shitty idle and found a slight crack hiding behind the grounding post.

[cookiesowns]

need to log injector angle/duty cycle to see if the misfires are actually not a ignition problem but rather a fuel problem