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      12-08-2013, 05:27 PM   #309
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      12-08-2013, 05:49 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savory View Post
Can't tell if trolling or not. In case you are being serious, wait until you drive one. Case in point: 991 GT3.
iconic Mezger engine: gone
PDK:mandatory
4 wheel steering
Heavier than outgoing model
More civilized etc..

Yet the GT3 managed not to be a pedestrian car. In fact, its turning out to be spectacular. It has been praised by doubters and naysayers.
I feel that this is a very good counterpoint to his argument.

However, to be perfectly fair, the Mezger engine did not go away because it was so expensive to produce. It went away because of emissions and efficiency concerns.

BMW, on the other hand, has gone on the record to say that the main reason they moved to a 3.0 liter Turbo engine is so that it can be produced in the same plant as the N55 in Steyr. It is only secondary that the powerplant is more efficient than the outgoing S65.

By almost all accounts, the 991 GT3 w/ PDK is the best GT3 ever made and immediately makes all the 997/996 models obsolete. I do not think anyone has ever said the same thing about the F10 M5 and its predecessors.
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      12-08-2013, 05:54 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
That is funny because the 335i coupe defeated the 2011 Mustang GT. The Mustang GT's VIR laptime is 3.13.5 while the 335i coupe was 3.10.5. Interestingly enough the E90 335is (which is a coupe) was 3.13.8 while the F30 335i 3.13.2. The M3 was 3.05.4 at VIR. You have to go to the Boss 302 to defeat not just the the M3 but the Shelby GT500. The Boss 302 was a thorough breed race car made for the street.
Ok, I have owned both an E92 335i and a 5.0 Mustang GT and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY the 335is can keep up with the 5.0 GT with the same driver and track conditions. I don't care what some bullshit magazine said, it's not happening. The Mustang GT is an even match for the M3, some incredibly minor suspension mods put it before the M3. And the Boss 302 is on a whole other level as it runs with Corvettes not M3's.

This is the second piece of horribly wrong information you've foisted upon this thread. The BMWs are great cars, you don't need to make up BS about them to prove a point.
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      12-08-2013, 06:00 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post

BMW ought to seriously be reading this thread and really give their value proposition some thought. With the new M3/M4 pushing serious $$ (if it wasn't already), and a $110k M5 that is all but an afterthought in the auto enthusiast publication world, BMW can't afford to screw this up.
BMW doesn't care because enthusiasts like us are not their bread and butter. They will continue to sell thousands upon thousands of 328ix and X5's to people who are obsessed about style and image and could not care less about driver involvement.

The 5 series is getting destroyed in the auto press but I bet they still sell 3:1 to the A6 and E-Class and probably 5:1 to the CTS.
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      12-08-2013, 07:47 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
I feel that this is a very good counterpoint to his argument.

However, to be perfectly fair, the Mezger engine did not go away because it was so expensive to produce. It went away because of emissions and efficiency concerns.

BMW, on the other hand, has gone on the record to say that the main reason they moved to a 3.0 liter Turbo engine is so that it can be produced in the same plant as the N55 in Steyr. It is only secondary that the powerplant is more efficient than the outgoing S65.

By almost all accounts, the 991 GT3 w/ PDK is the best GT3 ever made and immediately makes all the 997/996 models obsolete. I do not think anyone has ever said the same thing about the F10 M5 and its predecessors.
Wasn't making a direct comparison, but was just making a point that just because some things do not look good on paper doesn't mean that the car is less sporting/less capable. And plenty of people praise the F10 M5 over the E60 and E39, M5post has plenty of last generation owners who have more than warmed up to the new era of M. Anyways, wayyy off topic, we are supposed to be discussing the Mustang lol.
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      12-08-2013, 08:17 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by JAM3S View Post
Ive noticed that every person that has a "M4 soon" or "M235i/M2 soon" listed in what they drive is a troll.

Judging by the content of your posts, if you arent a troll you are 18 and waiting on daddy to buy you the car if you get at least a 3.0 GPA this semester. You know, you gotta work hard for that new car....
someone takes the piss out of your good old boys cars and you all throw a hissy fit, good job you guys dont have passports or ever leave your state, you'd all die of shock at things like corners.
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      12-08-2013, 08:18 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Justin* View Post
That's pretty funny. I hadn't given it much thought; but, you might be on to something. Why would you list some future car if you already drive a great car? Why wouldn't you list your current awesome car and then change what you drive when you upgrade. Hmm, now I pretty much have to look to see if someone is saying they drive an M4 soon before I invest in what they have to say.
clue in the name genius.
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      12-08-2013, 09:15 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
The 5 series is getting destroyed in the auto press but I bet they still sell 3:1 to the A6 and E-Class and probably 5:1 to the CTS.
That's a pretty bold claim. I'd be curious to see the S6/RS7 combined sales vs. the M5+M6 sales.

And the CTS is still last generation so we'll see.

The BMW m5 is no longer a legend. The e60 was cool in 2007 but quickly lost flavor. It really hasn't made a splash in quite a long time.
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      12-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtoM View Post
someone takes the piss out of your good old boys cars and you all throw a hissy fit, good job you guys dont have passports or ever leave your state, you'd all die of shock at things like corners.
Why would I care when I own an M3 and not a mustang? I think that would make me impartial to say the least. You dont even have a car let alone an ///M so what are you contributing here exactly? We are comparing the next Gen Mustang to M cars and it appears you have driven neither so you are like a med student trying to give your opinion on open heart surgery to skilled surgeons. You're only making yourself look like a dullard.
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      12-08-2013, 09:37 PM   #318
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I'm sorry but all the new Audie are overpriced, overweight and dull [R8 is cool looking though]... I went and looked at a S7 and.meh... Next. Why spend all that scrilla when you can make a gti outrun a lambo or just get a p car

I give more cred to Merc as a family car or you have options like Brabus

I'd take a new stingray over the stang but props to Ford for stepping up their game

This F8x will smoke a lot of new gen V8 offerings... I think my F30 [man] is as fast if not faster than my E92 [dct-not stock either] going up mountain grades... Which leads me to believe the F8x will be faster than our cognitive dissonance will allow because it's not the S65

But if I only had 30G and wanted a badass V8 then by all means the mustang could suffice
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      12-08-2013, 09:50 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtoM View Post
clue in the name genius.
Haha...whatever you say.
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      12-08-2013, 10:12 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurman Murch View Post
I'm sorry but all the new Audie are overpriced, overweight and dull [R8 is cool looking though]... I went and looked at a S7 and.meh... Next. Why spend all that scrilla when you can make a gti outrun a lambo or just get a p car

I give more cred to Merc as a family car or you have options like Brabus

I'd take a new stingray over the stang but props to Ford for stepping up their game

This F8x will smoke a lot of new gen V8 offerings... I think my F30 [man] is as fast if not faster than my E92 [dct-not stock either] going up mountain grades... Which leads me to believe the F8x will be faster than our cognitive dissonance will allow because it's not the S65

But if I only had 30G and wanted a badass V8 then by all means the mustang could suffice
GTIs are children cars, i don't care how fast it is. lol

go look at guys who drive lambos and guys who "soup" up GTIs hahaha. the real reason people who lambos is not for performance.

anyways the F80 is going to sound like shit, and performance at a mustang GT level. fuk the F80s and what they stand for.
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      12-08-2013, 10:45 PM   #321
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I'm not really sure I like the aesthetic changes of the new Mustang. Just like I'm not really sure I really like the aesthetic changes of the M cars either. New modesls of cars I like usually have to be in production a couple of years for me to warm up to them. The problem I have with the new mustang thus far is; to me, it appears they've attempted to copy too many different cars. In the profile picture on the first page of this thread it resembles a 911 shape to me. In the video above it reminds me of a GTR shape in the front end. Look at the overall shape of the two grilles on the mustang above. Imagine if the center section of bumper wasn't there (I know it is). Doesn't thank resemble the huge GTR grille? A black mustang would certainly look that way from a distance where it would be somewhat difficult to discern the bumper from the grilles.
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      12-08-2013, 10:52 PM   #322
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Accidently reposted. Sorry
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Last edited by Justin*; 12-09-2013 at 12:07 AM.
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      12-08-2013, 11:48 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin* View Post
I'm not really sure I like the aesthetic changes of the new Mustang. Just like I'm not really sure I really like the aesthetic changes of the M cars either. New modesls of cars I like usually have to be in production a couple of years for me to warm up to them. The problem I have with the new mustang thus far is; to me, it appears they've attempted to copy too many different cars. In the profile picture on the first page of this thread it resembles a 911 shape to me. In the video above it reminds me of a GTR shape in the front end. Look at the overall shape of the two grilles on the mustang above. Imagine if the center section of bumper wasn't there (I know it is). Doesn't thank resemble the huge GTR grille? A black mustang would certainly look that way from a distance where it would be somewhat difficult to discern the bumper from the grilles. I for one do not really like when auto manufacturers attempt to copy design cues from other popular cars in order to try to grab some of the other cars market. I think they should be original and design for themselves. Besides, no mustang will ever truly grab any significant market from M3, 911, or GTR buyers.
My response to this is that the Mustang GT is a car so it's going to look like one.
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      12-08-2013, 11:50 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
go look at guys who drive lambos and guys who "soup" up GTIs hahaha. the real reason people who lambos is not for performance.
Guy who drove GTI: Jeremy Clarkson


Guy who drove Lambo: Chris Brown


or Bieber:


Sorry I rather be Clarkson than woman beating Chris Brown hhahaha
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Last edited by Robert; 12-08-2013 at 11:56 PM.
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      12-09-2013, 12:06 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
My response to this is that the Mustang GT is a car so it's going to look like one.
Of course it will look like a car. I want it to look like a mustang; not with a profile like a 911 and a front end like a GTR and a rear end like something else, or hood bumps that resemble a Mercedes. I'm good with my Mustangs looking like Fords.
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      12-09-2013, 12:08 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
GTIs are children cars, i don't care how fast it is. lol

go look at guys who drive lambos and guys who "soup" up GTIs hahaha. the real reason people who lambos is not for performance.

anyways the F80 is going to sound like shit, and performance at a mustang GT level. fuk the F80s and what they stand for.
I don't think the F80s will sound like shit. They should sound every bit as good as the S54's. They just won't sound as awesome as an S65; but, we've been over that.
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      12-09-2013, 12:17 AM   #327
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Regular cars like Mustangs are getting so good that 'premium' cars like M3/4 can no longer justify charging premium dollars for being merely good enough. BMW will have to up their game in a big way to convince the buyers to pay the brand premium. And this is going to be more and more difficult for premium brands to do with each model year, as regular manufacturers are getting better and better with their new models.
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      12-09-2013, 12:19 AM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
That is funny because the 335i coupe defeated the 2011 Mustang GT. The Mustang GT's VIR laptime is 3.13.5 while the 335i coupe was 3.10.5. Interestingly enough the E90 335is (which is a coupe) was 3.13.8 while the F30 335i 3.13.2. The M3 was 3.05.4 at VIR. You have to go to the Boss 302 to defeat not just the the M3 but the Shelby GT500. The Boss 302 was a thorough breed race car made for the street.
Ok, I have owned both an E92 335i and a 5.0 Mustang GT and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY the 335is can keep up with the 5.0 GT with the same driver and track conditions. I don't care what some bullshit magazine said, it's not happening. The Mustang GT is an even match for the M3, some incredibly minor suspension mods put it before the M3. And the Boss 302 is on a whole other level as it runs with Corvettes not M3's.

This is the second piece of horribly wrong information you've foisted upon this thread. The BMWs are great cars, you don't need to make up BS about them to prove a point.
Interesting. One of the guys at VAC worked at Americanmuscle.com ( huge mustang company) before joining us. He has been racing BMWs since he was a kid and he currently owns an e30M3 race car and e46 touring. He also races our shop e36 and e46 track cars. He has had our 620hp, Brembo and Nitron triple adjustable e92 on track a few times as well. Very good shoe.

So, when working at AM he took a new GT and Boss out on the track quite a few times. He maintains that a Mustang GT will absolutely hang with the e92M on a track assuming drivers are equal. He feels the Boss would def have a solid advantage. One guys opinion, but a credible one in my opinion.

The new Mustang should def have a nice advantage over the e9x M on track. M4? We will see!

Side note: the Boss302 has a 7500 rpm redline. With a tune many people are running them to 8200. The 302R has a factory 8400 rev limit. 11:1, 444 hp, 4 cam variable timing etc etc. Its an amazing and deadly reliable engine.

I can't wait to drive the new Mustang!
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      12-09-2013, 12:48 AM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Guy who drove GTI: Jeremy Clarkson


Guy who drove Lambo: Chris Brown


or Bieber:


Sorry I rather be Clarkson than woman beating Chris Brown hhahaha
i think i would rather be a 18 year old with a lambo.... maybe thats just me though
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      12-09-2013, 12:59 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PawnStar View Post
Regular cars like Mustangs are getting so good that 'premium' cars like M3/4 can no longer justify charging premium dollars for being merely good enough. BMW will have to up their game in a big way to convince the buyers to pay the brand premium. And this is going to be more and more difficult for premium brands to do with each model year, as regular manufacturers are getting better and better with their new models.
I completely agree with this. We've virtually been there since 2011 with the Mustangs as far as performance goes.
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