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      09-24-2013, 01:45 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by 04cobra View Post
All I want is a 600hp AWD M3/M4 that weighs 2900 lbs and costs under $60k!...is that too much to ask for! GAWD!
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Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post
don't forget normally aspirated and 11,000RPM redline. And that $60k number better be well equipped not just the base prior to options!
And dont forget 50 MPGs!
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      09-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It will be worth the wait. You will be impressed by how they have engineered the car in response to a new weight reduction programme. Not only do we celebrate the announcement of a new BMW M3. But also a new icon - The BMW M4.

But in between all this is a very promising future for BMW M. And a new journey for further possibilities now that BMW have mastered the ability to use widespread carbon all thanks to BMWi and the significant investment involved.

BMWi and BMW M. Will not crossover as brands but in synergies and philosophy .
The exciting lighter era for BMW M begins today.

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      09-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #311
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With all this circlejerking over power and 1/4 mile trap speeds, maybe some of you guys would be better off in a GT500.

These aren't drag cars, and never will be.

I don't see why some of you are even comparing an M3/4 to a 911S and a C7. The C7 is a two seater sports car, and the 911S is as close as you can get to two seats while still claiming four. The 911S also starts at $98,900 with no options. Both of these cars are also built on chassis designed from the ground up to be fast. The M3/M4 has to start with the F30 chassis, right?
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      09-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Mikecom32 View Post
With all this circlejerking over power and 1/4 mile trap speeds, maybe some of you guys would be better off in a GT500.

These aren't drag cars, and never will be.

I don't see why some of you are even comparing an M3/4 to a 911S and a C7. The C7 is a two seater sports car, and the 911S is as close as you can get to two seats while still claiming four. The 911S also starts at $98,900 with no options. Both of these cars are also built on chassis designed from the ground up to be fast. The M3/M4 has to start with the F30 chassis, right?
It's being built on a new chassis designed for the m3/m4. F80/82
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      09-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It will be worth the wait. You will be impressed by how they have engineered the car in response to a new weight reduction programme. Not only do we celebrate the announcement of a new BMW M3. But also a new icon - The BMW M4.

But in between all this is a very promising future for BMW M. And a new journey for further possibilities now that BMW have mastered the ability to use widespread carbon all thanks to BMWi and the significant investment involved.

BMWi and BMW M. Will not crossover as brands but in synergies and philosophy .
The exciting lighter era for BMW M begins today.

Everybody should watch the i3 production videos Jason posted. Really impressive seeing how all of the composite materials come together.
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      09-24-2013, 01:51 PM   #314
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You're the man. But the suspense is starting to kill me. lol Hope you're having fun at the event.
Sadly I am not there, but I recognised some faces known via media photography.
(Did Bimmerpost ride with Claudia or Timo?) as we evaluating the next 7er , 5er matrix modular architecture and platforms for eDRIVE application.
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      09-24-2013, 01:54 PM   #315
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Afternoon - early evening in the US.

Jason, are we there yet? Hurry up, man. I have been working and watching this site since 12
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      09-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Put my M4 deposit down last April. May have to put off retirement for a couple years!
Congrats!!!
Deposit since April should get you a very early car again.

.

SCOTT, any news on the electric steering???
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      09-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #317
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Send a message via AIM to markeh
Anyone else google on how to build up a patience tolerance or anything similar? lol
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      09-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMWi and BMW M. Will not crossover as brands but in synergies and philosophy .
The exciting lighter era for BMW M begins today.

With the lightweight technologies developed by BMWi now being spread across other models and brands, I wonder if any critics will still be claiming the i3 and i8 were not worthwhile investments?
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      09-24-2013, 02:14 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
LOL, e9x m3 is nowhere close to a 114 trap speed car. 112 yes FROM MAGS, not real world. Ive never seen a time slip for any trapping those speeds.

How about an actual owner!

Time slip of an actual owner, 120 mph
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=31

Mag times are only good when they compare two cars side by side, same day, same conditions. Show me an e9x m3 from a drag strip with anywhere close to what mags say...you wont. Show me a time slip of an m4 when it comes out that is 120 mph like the 991S...wont happen.

Think about this, head to head, same day, the 991S was faster in both ET and trap speed vs a C7 Stingray. That say a lot given the 991S is down 60 hp and like 100 lb/ft tq. The m3 will obviously be heavier than both those cars too and wont put down 120 mph trap speeds.

The 991S is FASTER than a 997.1 GT3. The M3/4 will be lucky if it can keep up with that kind of straight line acceleration.
Due to the uncertainties of individual owners vehicles and their drag efforts I trust magazine results more so than individual ones. Its like dynos - you can easily find a 15% variation among identical cars. Also the trap you posted was 119 (rounding down of course as one would do with 119.4) not 120 and I have never seen a magazine get that fast of a trap. The best result for the E92 M3 I've seen from a magazine is 115 (link to large M3 performance "database" here). I think the new car (assuming current best knowledge of power and weight and of course some underrating) should be in the 117-119 range. In short, as I posted earlier, based both on power to weight and physics based simulation results, I believe the new M4 will be very close to the 991S in a straight line. It will definitely be harder to launch and launch consistently though due to the favorable weight bias in the Porsche.
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      09-24-2013, 02:14 PM   #320
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Will the M2 also benefit from composites and weight reduction? May be the deciding factor between an M235 and waiting for the M2

Sorry for the off topic
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      09-24-2013, 02:17 PM   #321
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really hope M2 gets weight loss also!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Will the M2 also benefit from composites and weight reduction? May be the deciding factor between an M235 and waiting for the M2

Sorry for the off topic
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      09-24-2013, 02:20 PM   #322
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If BMW pull off a weight close to an 1M ............WOW

That would be something.........

I really had 2nd thoughts about the M4, but this is exiting. Had some thought to change brand and go for a Cayman.

But the M4, possible M2 have my fullest attention right now.....
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      09-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Don't forget that weight also is a vital factor in trap speed. You can have 500hp, but if it weighs 10000lbs, the trap speed won't be much...
Of course, but we're probably not dealing with a huge difference in weight here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
LOL, e9x m3 is nowhere close to a 114 trap speed car. 112 yes FROM MAGS, not real world. Ive never seen a time slip for any trapping those speeds.

How about an actual owner!

Time slip of an actual owner, 120 mph
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=31

Mag times are only good when they compare two cars side by side, same day, same conditions. Show me an e9x m3 from a drag strip with anywhere close to what mags say...you wont. Show me a time slip of an m4 when it comes out that is 120 mph like the 991S...wont happen.

Think about this, head to head, same day, the 991S was faster in both ET and trap speed vs a C7 Stingray. That say a lot given the 991S is down 60 hp and like 100 lb/ft tq. The m3 will obviously be heavier than both those cars too and wont put down 120 mph trap speeds.

The 991S is FASTER than a 997.1 GT3. The M3/4 will be lucky if it can keep up with that kind of straight line acceleration.
So you're going to buy in on one owner's account of his 991S even though his trap is faster than any magazine test, but somehow you discount the real world M3 1/4 numbers vs a magazine?

Honestly I care very little about 1/4 mile times, as such my resort to using magazine numbers. I don't know if real world owners get 114 trap, but again its very low on my list of care.

The Stingray seems to have some issue going on because there is no way in hell its trap speed should be slower than a stock C2S.

Either way. I still feel as though the new F82 M3 will be very close in accelerative performance to the 991S, and as I said earlier, it may produce 997 GT3 types accelerative force. I still hold to that. All this other drag racing rubbish is unimportant.
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Last edited by rave426; 09-24-2013 at 02:31 PM..
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      09-24-2013, 02:27 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Due to the uncertainties of individual owners vehicles and their drag efforts I trust magazine results more so than individual ones. Its like dynos - you can easily find a 15% variation among identical cars. Also the trap you posted was 119 (rounding down of course as one would do with 119.4) not 120 and I have never seen a magazine get that fast of a trap. The best result for the E92 M3 I've seen from a magazine is 115 (link to large M3 performance "database" here). I think the new car (assuming current best knowledge of power and weight and of course some underrating) should be in the 117-119 range. In short, as I posted earlier, based both on power to weight and physics based simulation results, I believe the new M4 will be very close to the 991S in a straight line. It will definitely be harder to launch and launch consistently though due to the favorable weight bias in the Porsche.
Don't you come in here with that logical stuff!
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      09-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #325
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Not sure why I chime in on this one since I find the drag strip quite boring and the numbers achieved there of little interest but in my experience hp is the main factor for trap speed. The time is mainly power to weight with weight being very important since the time is a result of average speed ( as lap times on a track ) where a quick start is imperative. The 1/4 mile however is long enough for cars to reach speeds where hp becomes very important to the final trap speed and heavier cars with huge power can build impressive speeds even with a so-so launch.
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      09-24-2013, 02:34 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Ramos
Will the M2 also benefit from composites and weight reduction? May be the deciding factor between an M235 and waiting for the M2

Sorry for the off topic
One can only hope.
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      09-24-2013, 02:37 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Not sure why I chime in on this one since I find the drag strip quite boring and the numbers achieved there of little interest but in my experience hp is the main factor for trap speed. The time is mainly power to weight with weight being very important since the time is a result of average speed ( as lap times on a track ) where a quick start is imperative. The 1/4 mile however is long enough for cars to reach speeds where hp becomes very important to the final trap speed and heavier cars with huge power can build impressive speeds even with a so-so launch.
My last post on 1/4 mile because it makes me feel pitiful lol.....but I'd say that the times are very much "traction" dependent...hence why Porsches (Rear weight biased) and AWD cars have such impressive 0-60 and 1/4 times.
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      09-24-2013, 02:43 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by rave426 View Post
My last post on 1/4 mile because it makes me feel pitiful lol.....but I'd say that the times are very much "traction" dependent...hence why Porsches (Rear weight biased) and AWD cars have such impressive 0-60 and 1/4 times.
This is true but weight trumps traction. Just look at the 1/4 time vs. contact patch on a one wheel drive stock Suzuki Hayabusa on stock tires...
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      09-24-2013, 02:45 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Not sure why I chime in on this one since I find the drag strip quite boring and the numbers achieved there of little interest but in my experience hp is the main factor for trap speed. The time is mainly power to weight with weight being very important since the time is a result of average speed ( as lap times on a track ) where a quick start is imperative. The 1/4 mile however is long enough for cars to reach speeds where hp becomes very important to the final trap speed.
HP is obviously a vital factor in trap speed, but Newton has a law where a=f/m (acceleration equals force divided on mass).

To increase speed you need to accelerate the object you want to increase speed on. To increase speed you need to apply a force and that force has to overcome the mass (weight) of the object. So mass IS important.

Obviously the higher the speed the more aero drag you get (which is a opposing force to the engine's positive, or accelerative, force). At higher speeds you will also need a higher accelerative force (HP) to overcome drag and not just the weight (or mass).
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      09-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #330
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Sooo... it's afternoon around the world now (Except for Hawaii but meh). How much longer?
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