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      09-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #331
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For me mass is all about AGILITY ............


and counting, nearly 10 PM in the Netherlands......
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      09-24-2013, 02:53 PM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
HP is obviously a vital factor in trap speed, but Newton has a law where a=f/m (acceleration equals force divided on mass).

To increase speed you need to accelerate the object you want to increase speed on. To increase speed you need to apply a force and that force has to overcome the mass (weight) of the object. So mass IS important.

Obviously the higher the speed the more aero drag you get (which is a opposing force to the engine's positive, or accelerative, force). At higher speeds you will also need a higher accelerative force (HP) to overcome drag and not just the weight (or mass).
Take off traction is irrelevant to f=ma. This law only applies to objects traveling at constant acceleration.
Nice try though.
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      09-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Sooo... it's afternoon around the world now (Except for Hawaii but meh). How much longer?
My guess is the specs will be released at 12:00 AM Munich time. Its almost 10:00 PM there now.
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      09-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
HP is obviously a vital factor in trap speed, but Newton has a law where a=f/m (acceleration equals force divided on mass).

To increase speed you need to accelerate the object you want to increase speed on. To increase speed you need to apply a force and that force has to overcome the mass (weight) of the object. So mass IS important.

Obviously the higher the speed the more aero drag you get (which is a opposing force to the engine's positive, or accelerative, force). At higher speeds you will also need a higher accelerative force (HP) to overcome drag and not just the weight (or mass).
Yup and that's why I noted that the 1/4 mile is long enough to allow for speeds where hp becomes the dominant factor for trap speed. It's not long enough for superior hp to make up for initial gains due to low weight and traction in terms of time but it can often result in faster trap speeds than a lighter car with inferior hp.

I'm in no way defending weight or massive hp in cars. The 1/4 mile means little to me and weight is the source of all evil in performance cars and what BMW is doing here with the new M3 is far more exciting than any power figures posted by other M cars or competitors. Bravo.
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      09-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #335
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I read somewhere that the embargo ends 0.00 Munich time, so 2 hours from now!
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      09-24-2013, 02:58 PM   #336
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      09-24-2013, 03:02 PM   #337
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      09-24-2013, 03:09 PM   #338
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just gif it
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      09-24-2013, 03:09 PM   #339
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A new (?) video of the M4 at the 'Ring while we wait:

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      09-24-2013, 03:10 PM   #340
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Hey Jason what is the latest date on when the M4/M3 will hit the US market. I know this was mentioned somewhere but I can not thread/post anymore
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      09-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #341
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      09-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Hey Jason what is the latest date on when the M4/M3 will hit the US market. I know this was mentioned somewhere but I can not thread/post anymore
To my knowledge, this schedule still holds:
  • Production M3 and M4 will be introduced together at Detroit Auto Show 2014
  • Ordering for M3/M4 begins in January-February 2014
  • Production of M3/M4 begins sometime in March-May window
  • Regularly delivery and European Delivery begins late Spring - Summer 2014
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      09-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
HP is obviously a vital factor in trap speed, but Newton has a law where a=f/m (acceleration equals force divided on mass).

To increase speed you need to accelerate the object you want to increase speed on. To increase speed you need to apply a force and that force has to overcome the mass (weight) of the object. So mass IS important.

Obviously the higher the speed the more aero drag you get (which is a opposing force to the engine's positive, or accelerative, force). At higher speeds you will also need a higher accelerative force (HP) to overcome drag and not just the weight (or mass).
This is a key factor. Obviously power to weight is very important, but it is AVAILABLE power to weight, after drag (aero and rolling) is deducted, that needs to be considered. Power required to overcome aero drag increases with the cube of speed. You need 27 times the power to overcome aero drag at 120mph compared to 40mph . So yes, you do need quite a lot of power to get higher trap speeds. A car with a worse power-to-weight ratio but more ultimate power can trap higher than one with better power-to-weight but less power... Higher power is good for high speed acceleration.

All that said, I still prefer a lighter car for all the other benefits it provides.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-24-2013 at 03:26 PM..
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      09-24-2013, 03:20 PM   #344
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That's great. LMAO!

ROMO and Transfer - excellent. That was three of the best posts I have seen in awhile.
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      09-24-2013, 03:24 PM   #345
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just need to know curb weight on F82 plzz
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      09-24-2013, 03:27 PM   #346
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00:00 CET - Munich. Just under 100 minutes.
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      09-24-2013, 03:30 PM   #347
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Shall we start the countdown?
Ah-Ah-Ah.
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      09-24-2013, 03:32 PM   #348
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......... Yas Marina Blue.
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      09-24-2013, 03:33 PM   #349
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I hope we get full engine specs. Turbo setup and some sort of diagrams along with rev range and curb weight.
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      09-24-2013, 03:34 PM   #350
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.........
Scott, your enjoying this aren't you?
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      09-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #351
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dying here
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      09-24-2013, 03:38 PM   #352
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It's ok, just add a tune when they come out and you'll be over it
A 3ish displacement I6 with 3T + tune and you will be asking for trouble !!! You better keep that baby under warranty.
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