Coby Wheel
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-25-2013, 05:02 PM   #23
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
640
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear From Jax View Post
A turbo for ever 2 cylinders.... massive potential... but complex... I can't wait to see the schematics on this engine (if it's true). I'm still more interested in the M2 when it comes out, but this thing is going to be lovely I'm sure.... Minus the electric steering, unless they've solved the feel problem like Porsche did with the new GT3. Time will tell...
The patent (non production) for a triple turbo BMW has filed (patent details) is not 1 turbo for each of 3 groups of 2 cylinders. It is a conventional twin turbo with the third providing reduction in turbo lag.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      07-25-2013, 08:56 PM   #24
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

[QUOTE=rave426;14386461]Not sure if serious or super-troll

QUOTE]

Certainly no troll here, just a humble opinion about BMW's engineering prowess.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2013, 11:51 AM   #25
jml
Major
jml's Avatar
130
Rep
1,144
Posts

Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
Certainly no troll here, just a humble opinion about BMW's engineering prowess.
The only issue is that they add lead when they do it.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2013, 01:23 PM   #26
LarThaL
Colonel
LarThaL's Avatar
343
Rep
2,940
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
I don't see the point of 3 turbos. Imagine the exhaust manifold, and the hot piping to the intercooler. It's gonna look ridiculous. Let's see how this pans out
3 turbos means that one turbo will feed two cylinders. This means that the turbos can be small, and hence will spool quickly to minimize turbo lag. And yet, they will be able to move enough volume of air to produce adequate boost since only two cylinders are being boosted per turbo.

I am not all concerned about the technology as long as the heat management is adequate.
__________________
Audi S6 * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS
--Former BMW M3 owner
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2013, 01:29 PM   #27
sparkyg
Brigadier General
sparkyg's Avatar
150
Rep
3,522
Posts

Drives: A6 Allroad
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oil Country

iTrader: (5)

I think the F80/F82 is all about heat management. If they can cool the oil and have it last through a track day then the car should be a success.

My concern is testing on the 'ring gives plenty of opportunity for cooling whereas most tracks in NA are shorter, slower and tighter.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2013, 01:39 PM   #28
solstice
Major General
5504
Rep
7,075
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

My guess is that IF we get 3 turbos it will be a sequential system with two small turbos in parallel feeding one larger turbo. This would generate power at a wider rpm range than three parallel turbos and allow for a higher useful redline.
Appreciate 0
      07-28-2013, 02:47 PM   #29
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
640
Rep
10,404
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Not sure why so much speculation on the turbo configuration. If it has 3 turbos they will almost for sure to be as per BMWs patent I posted just above.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2013, 11:33 PM   #30
F32
Banned
20
Rep
688
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SF

iTrader: (0)

3 turbos? You guys are kidding...right?
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2013, 09:13 AM   #31
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7539
Rep
19,368
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F32 View Post
3 turbos? You guys are kidding...right?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bmw+n57s

It is not as far-fetched as you make it seem.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2013, 11:19 PM   #32
BRAISKI
Colonel
BRAISKI's Avatar
Canada
140
Rep
2,517
Posts

Drives: '11 335xi e92 M-Pak
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GTA/KW, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335xi  [7.00]
Well I guess thats considered "multi-turbo"
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2013, 01:38 AM   #33
Judah
First Lieutenant
13
Rep
360
Posts

Drives: Black E46 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Jeru

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear From Jax View Post
A turbo for ever 2 cylinders.... massive potential... but complex... I can't wait to see the schematics on this engine (if it's true). I'm still more interested in the M2 when it comes out, but this thing is going to be lovely I'm sure.... Minus the electric steering, unless they've solved the feel problem like Porsche did with the new GT3. Time will tell...
The patent (non production) for a triple turbo BMW has filed (patent details) is not 1 turbo for each of 3 groups of 2 cylinders. It is a conventional twin turbo with the third providing reduction in turbo lag.
I remember seeing the patent drawing a while back and if I remember correctly the third turbo may not be a turbo at all but an electric motor used to spool up the turbos. Once they are spooled to speed the electric motor is disconnected from the turbos via electromagnetic clutches.

This system would allow the usage of bigger turbos which wouldn't run out of breath at higher RPMs, (remember "near 8000 rpm") and also reduce, (possibly eliminate) turbo lag.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I think we are going to see something new !
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2013, 12:52 AM   #34
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
The only issue is that they add lead when they do it.
Ah, no you're talking about the marketing department not the engineers
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2013, 01:26 PM   #35
RichReg
Colonel
RichReg's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
2,099
Posts

Drives: 2015 435Xi GC & 2000 323Ci.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The patent (non production) for a triple turbo BMW has filed (patent details) is not 1 turbo for each of 3 groups of 2 cylinders. It is a conventional twin turbo with the third providing reduction in turbo lag.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, some superchargers are powered by electric motors, correct? Which greatly reduces lag. So is this design basically eliminating the turbo lag by 'supercharging' the twin turbos?
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2013, 01:42 PM   #36
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7539
Rep
19,368
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichReg View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but, some superchargers are powered by electric motors, correct?
Not in any production automobile that I am aware of, no.

Quote:
Which greatly reduces lag.
There is no lag. A supercharger is not powered by exhaust gas, so it does not have lag as demonstrated by a turbocharger.

Quote:
So is this design basically eliminating the turbo lag by 'supercharging' the twin turbos?
In a manner of speaking, yes.

The reason to use a turbocharger vs. a supercharger is that it does not rob power from the engine in order to spin its turbine. The reason not to simply fix this by using a purely electric supercharger is that the energy storage required to power it would be very heavy. So, you combine the ideas by using an electrically assisted turbocharger (or system of them in some combination).
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #37
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1412
Rep
10,477
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Confucius once told me..."Cars with 3 turbos are better than cars with none"
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #38
Sean@PSI
Sean@PSI's Avatar
United_States
2418
Rep
5,017
Posts

Drives: 2021 IOMG M3 Sedan
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oviedo, FL

iTrader: (0)

BMW is always first out of the gate with ground breaking designs, whether it is aesthetics or engineering, BMW always takes the risks other manufacturers will not.

I have not been this excited in a long time about a new BMW model!
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2013, 07:04 PM   #39
RichReg
Colonel
RichReg's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
2,099
Posts

Drives: 2015 435Xi GC & 2000 323Ci.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Not in any production automobile that I am aware of, no.
The article referenced below states that electric superchargers use
"an electrically powered forced-air system that contains an electric motor to pressurize the intake air".
What am I missing? Are these not used in production cars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2013, 07:35 PM   #40
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7539
Rep
19,368
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

They are indeed not used in any production car or truck that I am aware of. They may be used in some production engine for some application; that I don't know. I seem to remember reading about their use in either air or marine applications in the past, but I don't recall details.

But there aren't many production supercharged cars today anyway. Still, even if we look at aftermarket solutions of which there are a good many, I am not aware of any with electrical assist. Perhaps they were tried out sometime over the past 100 or so years. Today, though, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichReg View Post
The article referenced below states that electric superchargers use
"an electrically powered forced-air system that contains an electric motor to pressurize the intake air".
What am I missing? Are these not used in production cars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2013, 01:43 AM   #41
BlueCoyote
Private
5
Rep
51
Posts

Drives: A beater
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Washington

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
I don't see the point of 3 turbos. Imagine the exhaust manifold, and the hot piping to the intercooler. It's gonna look ridiculous. Let's see how this pans out
According to the latest issue of "Road & Track" magazine, they are planning to use 3 "tiny turbos" that will allow a quicker response than two small turbos or one large turbo. As another poster mentioned, the goal is to keep turbo lag to a bare minimum.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 video, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m3, 2015 m4, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, bmw s55, bmw s55 engine, bmw s55 motor, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, f80 m3 video, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f82 m4 video, f83 m3, f83 m4, m forum, s55, s55 engine, s55 motor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST