Autotalent
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-04-2016, 02:04 AM   #1
shahano
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,576
Posts

Drives: 21' M2C 6spd ,11' 1M, 88' M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

CCB Replacement mileage

This is not a discussion comparing CCBs to normal brakes. We have been through that time and time again.

I just would like to know how many of you have changed pads and rotors on CCBs and after how many street miles? Track miles? etc....
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2016, 10:13 AM   #2
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
Italy
98
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Milan/Monza

iTrader: (0)

I'm using my rotors & pads for 24K miles, and the signs on the front rotors started to disappear, I think I will replace them around September, and the car will be around 30K miles(150miles on track). The pads seems to be fine for now.
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2016, 11:04 AM   #3
shahano
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,576
Posts

Drives: 21' M2C 6spd ,11' 1M, 88' M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

Thought the rotors would last more than that. only 150 track miles?
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2016, 12:15 PM   #4
MTW1989
Private
30
Rep
68
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M4
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

I've done 17k and 3 track days and the be had to change pads (they were at 50%) and front rotors are almost finished going by the wear I indicators, the rear discs and pads are fine
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2016, 02:55 PM   #5
CSanto
Brigadier General
634
Rep
3,039
Posts

Drives: 2015 BSM/SO M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York

iTrader: (3)

Honestly the rotors should last A LOT longer
Appreciate 1
      05-05-2016, 02:00 AM   #6
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
Italy
98
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Milan/Monza

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto
Honestly the rotors should last A LOT longer
I was thinking that as well but the reality is different. You should better have a backup plan..
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2016, 02:13 AM   #7
shahano
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,576
Posts

Drives: 21' M2C 6spd ,11' 1M, 88' M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

oh well it is what it is. Just imagined they would last longer.
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2016, 03:54 PM   #8
RowanBuds
Colonel
RowanBuds's Avatar
1707
Rep
2,052
Posts

Drives: 3 pedal 718, G05, MkVII GTI
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bergen County, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAOZKAN View Post
I'm using my rotors & pads for 24K miles, and the signs on the front rotors started to disappear, I think I will replace them around September, and the car will be around 30K miles(150miles on track). The pads seems to be fine for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTW1989 View Post
I've done 17k and 3 track days and the be had to change pads (they were at 50%) and front rotors are almost finished going by the wear I indicators, the rear discs and pads are fine
Can either of you share with us what your IDrive brake life reflects front and rear? I'm near 280 track miles on the car now and my IDrive still shows 120k miles. Granted I only have 7k on the car.

Honestly, I think the wear indicators are causing unneeded confusion. The wear indicators aren't finished the same as the rest of the rotor surface, and by my guess I wouldn't rely on them as a final word. The proper way of determining service life on your CCB rotors is to remove them from the car and have them weighed.

With this most recent CCB generation, the P-car users have found greatly improved rotor life by changing their pads at about 50% thickness. Granted, this still isn't a cheap proposition, but much cheaper than replacing rotors at 30k intervals.

If I start to see my indicators oxidize the car will go to BMW for a rotor weight check - I'll truly be surprised if they are getting near the minimum service weight when the indicators begin to show wear, but I might be unhappily surprised. Glad the real cost of new CCB's isn't near 4k a corner. Full retrofit kits running about 12K, and then you have two sets of calipers and all hardware. I'm betting some M5 owners, or non CCB F8x owners, would love to run the 6 piston calipers with the M5 steel rotors - that should present the opportunity to recoup some costs if a full 4 corner rotor replacement is needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto View Post
Honestly the rotors should last A LOT longer
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahano View Post
Thought the rotors would last more than that. only 150 track miles?
+1 to both of you. Shit - I'm thinking and hoping the same. There's no way the CCB Rotors should need replacement after 30k street and 150 track miles - unless it was driven like a hooligan on street, and traction control cutting in very often street and track - the TCS in my opinion will greatly impact the wear life of the pads, but if they are changed at 50% it shouldn't translate into premature rotor wear.
__________________
Moved to the darkside: '23 718 GT4; 11-10-2022.

Le Mans Blue F80 - Munich 5-22-2015 / US 7-7-2015 / SOLD 9-17-2022
ED Recap
Arctic Grey G05 - Spartanburg 8-29-2019
X5 PCD Recap
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2016, 04:29 PM   #9
lemetier
Plenipotentiary
lemetier's Avatar
2614
Rep
3,046
Posts

Drives: Yes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds
Honestly, I think the wear indicators are causing unneeded confusion. The wear indicators aren't finished the same as the rest of the rotor surface, and by my guess I wouldn't rely on them as a final word. The proper way of determining service life on your CCB rotors is to remove them from the car and have them weighed.

With this most recent CCB generation, the P-car users have found greatly improved rotor life by changing their pads at about 50% thickness. Granted, this still isn't a cheap proposition, but much cheaper than replacing rotors at 30k intervals.

If I start to see my indicators oxidize the car will go to BMW for a rotor weight check - I'll truly be surprised if they are getting near the minimum service weight when the indicators begin to show wear, but I might be unhappily surprised. Glad the real cost of new CCB's isn't near 4k a corner. Full retrofit kits running about 12K, and then you have two sets of calipers and all hardware. I'm betting some M5 owners, or non CCB F8x owners, would love to run the 6 piston calipers with the M5 steel rotors - that should present the opportunity to recoup some costs if a full 4 corner rotor replacement is needed.
The wear indicators are confusing. They indicate what is occurring with the structural component of the rotor. Since a near diamond hard wear surface is applied on top of the rotor structure, the indicators are there to determine of the rotor should be weighed as physical wear is near impossible. If more than 50% of them are gone, there is no need to weigh it. The rotor is worn to its service life by that point.

One cannot compare the MCCB to anything other than Gen 3 PCCB. All the other types are of different construction.
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2016, 04:29 PM   #10
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
Italy
98
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Milan/Monza

iTrader: (0)

My Idrive still shows 200K km(120-130k miles).. However, as well as indicators are disappearing, they started to make very bad sounds.. before I change them, I will weight them for sure and decide accordingly since these things don't come cheap. I see that the retrofits are 12k$ but when I tried to find the rotors one by one, they seem to be priced around 3.5k$ each. I also want to have the spare ones when it comes to selling the car since nobody will go over the trouble of measuring the weight, they would look to the indicators if they know what are they for at least these are my assumptions..
Appreciate 0
      05-06-2016, 04:36 PM   #11
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
Italy
98
Rep
468
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Milan/Monza

iTrader: (0)

One last thing to add, my street driving is mostly bumper to bumper traffic or long highway travels, I can say that I don't abuse the brakes much..
My tracking days are at an ex F1 circuit though, which has 8 hard braking corners. Most of the time tcu is on or at mdm.
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2016, 12:58 AM   #12
shahano
Lieutenant Colonel
230
Rep
1,576
Posts

Drives: 21' M2C 6spd ,11' 1M, 88' M3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London, UK

iTrader: (0)

Seems weird to me that they are going after only 3 track days. Can anyone else confirm. Anyone has actually weighed them when the indicators are gone?
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2016, 02:37 PM   #13
RowanBuds
Colonel
RowanBuds's Avatar
1707
Rep
2,052
Posts

Drives: 3 pedal 718, G05, MkVII GTI
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bergen County, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiten
Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds
Honestly, I think the wear indicators are causing unneeded confusion. The wear indicators aren't finished the same as the rest of the rotor surface, and by my guess I wouldn't rely on them as a final word. The proper way of determining service life on your CCB rotors is to remove them from the car and have them weighed.

With this most recent CCB generation, the P-car users have found greatly improved rotor life by changing their pads at about 50% thickness. Granted, this still isn't a cheap proposition, but much cheaper than replacing rotors at 30k intervals.

If I start to see my indicators oxidize the car will go to BMW for a rotor weight check - I'll truly be surprised if they are getting near the minimum service weight when the indicators begin to show wear, but I might be unhappily surprised. Glad the real cost of new CCB's isn't near 4k a corner. Full retrofit kits running about 12K, and then you have two sets of calipers and all hardware. I'm betting some M5 owners, or non CCB F8x owners, would love to run the 6 piston calipers with the M5 steel rotors - that should present the opportunity to recoup some costs if a full 4 corner rotor replacement is needed.
The wear indicators are confusing. They indicate what is occurring with the structural component of the rotor. Since a near diamond hard wear surface is applied on top of the rotor structure, the indicators are there to determine of the rotor should be weighed as physical wear is near impossible. If more than 50% of them are gone, there is no need to weigh it. The rotor is worn to its service life by that point.

One cannot compare the MCCB to anything other than Gen 3 PCCB. All the other types are of different construction.
The current CCB is gen 3, no?


Does anyone know what the brand new CCB front pad thickness is? Want to get mine measured at my to be scheduled service. If at or near half they'll get swapped. Keep old pads for street where they should last at least another year, and use new at track.
__________________
Moved to the darkside: '23 718 GT4; 11-10-2022.

Le Mans Blue F80 - Munich 5-22-2015 / US 7-7-2015 / SOLD 9-17-2022
ED Recap
Arctic Grey G05 - Spartanburg 8-29-2019
X5 PCD Recap
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2016, 06:04 PM   #14
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
1111
Rep
1,904
Posts

Drives: iXM60, i8 Rdstr, M4, i7 M70
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahano View Post
Seems weird to me that they are going after only 3 track days. Can anyone else confirm. Anyone has actually weighed them when the indicators are gone?
I just finished my forth full track day with my M4 CCB's at Autobahn yesterday. iDrive is telling me the front pads need to be replaced. I stopped my driving session immediately (after a cooldown lap) when the message popped up. I expect the front wear sensor has been tripped. I now get the "Brake Warning" on the dash and iDrive at every startup. These were four very hard driving days with a lot of heavy braking.

1. Anyone know where I can find a shop manual for the F8X? I've never really looked before for any of my other BMW's but they don't seem to be so easy to find. ..or maybe just the CCB pad replacement procedures? I'ld like to at least do the first change on my own to see whats up but I can't find any definitive guidelines (procedures, torque info, etc). Especially since these are CCB's....

2. Got the BMW part number for the pads (34112284970) - about $475 for the front set from ECS. Does anyone know if these come with a new wear sensor or is the old sensor somehow re-used?
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2016, 07:31 AM   #15
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
I just finished my forth full track day with my M4 CCB's at Autobahn yesterday. iDrive is telling me the front pads need to be replaced. I stopped my driving session immediately (after a cooldown lap) when the message popped up. I expect the front wear sensor has been tripped. I now get the "Brake Warning" on the dash and iDrive at every startup. These were four very hard driving days with a lot of heavy braking.

1. Anyone know where I can find a shop manual for the F8X? I've never really looked before for any of my other BMW's but they don't seem to be so easy to find. ..or maybe just the CCB pad replacement procedures? I'ld like to at least do the first change on my own to see whats up but I can't find any definitive guidelines (procedures, torque info, etc). Especially since these are CCB's....

2. Got the BMW part number for the pads (34112284970) - about $475 for the front set from ECS. Does anyone know if these come with a new wear sensor or is the old sensor somehow re-used?
If I am not mistaken, with the CCB, you need to remove the caliper to change the pads (as opposed to the irons, where you just need to pull the pad holding pins). Be extra careful when removing the calipers, any small ding on the rotor might warrant its replacement.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2016, 07:38 AM   #16
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Can either of you share with us what your IDrive brake life reflects front and rear?

Honestly, I think the wear indicators are causing unneeded confusion. The wear indicators aren't finished the same as the rest of the rotor surface, and by my guess I wouldn't rely on them as a final word. The proper way of determining service life on your CCB rotors is to remove them from the car and have them weighed.
I would be more inclined to trust the wear indicators on the disc than the iDrive. The iDrive indication is simply from an algorithm based on driving style and cannot know the temperatures the rotors were exposed to. The algorithm does not seem to work well with track use.

Wear on CCB rotors is due to the oxydation of the carbon fibres inside the matrix when exposed to very high temperatures (such as race track use). The wear indicators capture this oxydation wear. Once they are half exposed, it is indeed a good idea to have the rotors weighed; there is a good chance they will be under min. It is also important to note that BMW recommend replacing the rotors if either the wear indicators are half exposed OR when the rotors are under-weight.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-22-2016 at 10:05 AM..
Appreciate 1
Flying Ace4982.50
      05-22-2016, 12:40 PM   #17
RowanBuds
Colonel
RowanBuds's Avatar
1707
Rep
2,052
Posts

Drives: 3 pedal 718, G05, MkVII GTI
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bergen County, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
It is also important to note that BMW recommend replacing the rotors if either the wear indicators are half exposed OR when the rotors are under-weight.
Good tidibt, thanks! Agreed iDrive is not what I would consider when looking into this. We both also agree that the proper way is to weigh them.

Do we have any owner here yet with a CCB equipped car that has had to replace its rotors for wear?
__________________
Moved to the darkside: '23 718 GT4; 11-10-2022.

Le Mans Blue F80 - Munich 5-22-2015 / US 7-7-2015 / SOLD 9-17-2022
ED Recap
Arctic Grey G05 - Spartanburg 8-29-2019
X5 PCD Recap
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2016, 05:27 PM   #18
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
1111
Rep
1,904
Posts

Drives: iXM60, i8 Rdstr, M4, i7 M70
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I would be more inclined to trust the wear indicators on the disc than the iDrive.
1. I'm talking about my pads - not my rotors... iDrive is informing about the front pads - not the rotors. There is sacrificial sensor (electronic) on the front left and another on the rear right. I think they crush or something when the pad surfaces get thinned out. So, iDrive is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. The pads (and sensor) need to bed replaced in any case as once the sensor is done, there are continual warnings on start up and on the console until it is replaced.

2. Although the CCB rotors have wear indicators, they are not the primary method to determine if rotors need to be replaced. CCB rotors need to be weighed to determine if they are done. Each rotor has a minimal weight stamped on its inner ring. Once the weight of the rotor falls below that value they must be replaced. CCB rotors don't wear down like normal rotors. The carbon burns out from inside the structure. They don't really get any thinner - they just get lighter. Once a predetermined amount of the carbon has been burned out they must be replaced...

Last edited by evanevery; 05-22-2016 at 05:28 PM.. Reason: Content
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2016, 05:31 PM   #19
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
1111
Rep
1,904
Posts

Drives: iXM60, i8 Rdstr, M4, i7 M70
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
If I am not mistaken, with the CCB, you need to remove the caliper to change the pads (as opposed to the irons, where you just need to pull the pad holding pins). Be extra careful when removing the calipers, any small ding on the rotor might warrant its replacement.
Yup! 10-4! That's what I'm expecting...

However, it would be nice to have a shop manual which explains the proper order of the process, and the associated torque values for the associated fasteners...

Anyone do a set of CCB pads yet?
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2016, 09:03 PM   #20
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
1. I'm talking about my pads - not my rotors... iDrive is informing about the front pads - not the rotors. There is sacrificial sensor (electronic) on the front left and another on the rear right. I think they crush or something when the pad surfaces get thinned out. So, iDrive is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. The pads (and sensor) need to bed replaced in any case as once the sensor is done, there are continual warnings on start up and on the console until it is replaced.
Don't get confused with the iDrive "mileage indicator" for brake life and the pad wear sensors. The "mileage indicator" works on an algorithm based on driving style and has nothing to do with actual wear. The mileage indicator can be reset through the service menu (same as an oil change).

The brake pad sensor works as an on/off switch. There is a little wire inside the sensor and when the sensor wears down, it cuts the wire opening the circuit. When that happens, you get the "red" warning saying that the pads need to be replaced. This type of warning can only be reset by replacing the sensors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
2. Although the CCB rotors have wear indicators, they are not the primary method to determine if rotors need to be replaced. CCB rotors need to be weighed to determine if they are done. Each rotor has a minimal weight stamped on its inner ring. Once the weight of the rotor falls below that value they must be replaced. CCB rotors don't wear down like normal rotors. The carbon burns out from inside the structure. They don't really get any thinner - they just get lighter. Once a predetermined amount of the carbon has been burned out they must be replaced...
As I posted previously, according to the BMW literature on CCB servicing, there is no "primary" method for establishing rotor replacement. If EITHER the weight OR the wear indicators say so, the rotors have to be replaced (amongst many other parameters).
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-22-2016 at 09:08 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2016, 09:27 AM   #21
melvyn
Lieutenant
267
Rep
436
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 CS
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: isle of man

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanevery View Post
1. I'm talking about my pads - not my rotors... iDrive is informing about the front pads - not the rotors. There is sacrificial sensor (electronic) on the front left and another on the rear right. I think they crush or something when the pad surfaces get thinned out. So, iDrive is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. The pads (and sensor) need to bed replaced in any case as once the sensor is done, there are continual warnings on start up and on the console until it is replaced.

2. Although the CCB rotors have wear indicators, they are not the primary method to determine if rotors need to be replaced. CCB rotors need to be weighed to determine if they are done. Each rotor has a minimal weight stamped on its inner ring. Once the weight of the rotor falls below that value they must be replaced. CCB rotors don't wear down like normal rotors. The carbon burns out from inside the structure. They don't really get any thinner - they just get lighter. Once a predetermined amount of the carbon has been burned out they must be replaced...
How many miles was the idrive saying please
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2016, 09:50 AM   #22
evanevery
Lieutenant Colonel
evanevery's Avatar
1111
Rep
1,904
Posts

Drives: iXM60, i8 Rdstr, M4, i7 M70
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by melvyn View Post
How many miles was the idrive saying please
The iDrive doesn't say ANY miles. Once the Brake Pad Sensor is tripped, it simply says you need pads. There is one sensor for the front and another sensor for the rear pads. It is not predictive, it just gets tripped. After that iDrive will tell you that you need service at every startup and the "BRAKE" warning light will be displayed on the dash. iDrive will tell you which set of pads (front or rear) was tripped though on the vehicle status screen.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST