Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[ChuMpion3]

The Chris Harris review is really well done. The moral of the story essentially is, BMW blew it with this car. It is even more capable than the f80, which is saying something. It has the refinements and, brakes aside, it will roast the f80 on the track. But why oh why did they put that god awful wrapper around it (design). It was a huge mistake that dings the car significantly. Spot on and a real shame for the BMW flagship M car.

[six75LT]

i just got back from driving it heres what i thought: steering is very light. zf8 is super smooth, and quicker than i recall it being in the m5/m8, but that was was on the track whereas this was a road test. DCT is still a million times more fun than the ZF8, regardless of the car. upshifts are not really exciting anymore. downshifts sound much better (smoother) than the s55, but WOT think the S55 sounds better. road noise was definitely reduced & the ride was much less stiffer than the f8x. it's a heavier car for sure, but on the roads i drove on it was pretty responsive. all of this was in sport plus BTW.

all in all, it's drives great if you want a faster m340i/440i. but thats not me. i like the aggressive f82 driving dynamics and this lacks that kind of emotion. if i wanted that, id just get an M8 since it's that kind of car, but even better, and not much more expensive.. that being said if thats what youre looking for, you'll love it. not going to say its a bad car, engineers did a great job at tailoring it for the target market.

and do i really needa say anything about the styling?

[MFNATIK]

Basically Biermann did what he said, which was build the F80 in the spirit of the E30 M3 while the G8X is built in the spirit of an Audi RS. Nice. I see why he flipped that bitch and left.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by six75LT

it's drives great if you want a faster m340i/440i. but thats not me. i like the aggressive f82 driving dynamics and this lacks that kind of emotion. if i wanted that, id just get an M8 since it's that kind of car

Wow, I've heard this exact thing a few times from track types, i.e., it's not a baby M5, it's a baby M8, and not a track-oriented car.

My sense is it wouldn't be as fun of a canyon car either as too big & heavy, especially for the smaller "no line" roads

With that, though, I'd say the bulk of M4 buyers are probably looking for a baby M8: luxury-sport over sportscar.

[SYT_Shadow]

I love the logic of 'i hate weight, i can totally feel how is fucks up the driving experience. So instead of car A that weighs 3800lb, I'd buy car B that weighs 4100lb'

So eating one piece of doodoo tastes awful and i hate it. So a better option is i might as well eat two doodos, because while i'm eating doodoo i muight as well get filled up

I tell you, i'd love to meet up with lots of forum members out on the track. There must be so much I can learn from people who drive a car in a backroad and can feel a 200lb difference!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Basically Biermann did what he said, which was build the F80 in the spirit of the E30 M3 while the G8X is built in the spirit of an Audi RS. Nice. I see why he flipped that bitch and left.

Exactly! I like VAG's breakdown of customer segmentation on the price point scale:



Basically people who buy German cars are "self rewarding" and/or "image seeking", and that further breaks down into youth, family, older ...

As a brand, Porsche can stretch down in price point, especially in SUVs (they all can), but Audi and VW can't stretch up (Phaeton) except in family vehicles - this explains why Audi's watered down the S and RS models ... those were historically "image seeking", but Audi doesn't stretch up there, so they've made them more luxury-performance, i.e., for "self rewarding" types, especially for families who want the "intelligent family estate":



So here lies BMW's problem as well: where do we grow and stretch up?

M3/4s have historically been "image seeking" but as Audi found out, it's hard to stretch up in price or grow that market so where do you go? Self-rewarding, i.e., the GT luxury saloon, i.e., the baby M8 G8x.

BMW Management: But ... what about the image-seekers? So we just lose them?

BMW Product: Ladies & Gentleman I give you: look-at-me design!

BMW Customers:

[dmk08]

Man the new Throttle House video where they compare the M4 to the RS5 and Merc just shows how ugly it is. Looks like a damn kids toy next to those two beautiful cars.

Fast and ugly. A shame.

[CT_M3]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Basically Biermann did what he said, which was build the F80 in the spirit of the E30 M3 while the G8X is built in the spirit of an Audi RS. Nice. I see why he flipped that bitch and left.

On point. I listened to Biermann's interviews with Motorman, who quizzed him on how he grew up and why he left.

His responses:
1) The removal of DCT in the M5 (which we already knew)
2) If you listen to what he was saying (it's a pretty long video); he was tired of fighting management on costs. It seemed increasingly from his experience, management and engineers always had a contentious disagreement on financing. I think that he felt that as M division head, he tired of being viewed as a pain whenever he sought funds for a new project, whereas in Korea, they wanted to hear what he had to say and what he had to bring and he felt it was refreshing. In Hyundai, apparently, he has influence up and down all the line of all cars being developed. Initially, when they called him, he thought it was a joke.

I think it wasn't just the DCT removal, he could connect the dots and see where this was headed years down the road. As you said, BMW was steering M into RS type cars and he always fought to keep the M DNA in the cars. Like he mentioned and griped about seeing M badges everywhere now, where he said back in the day, they had to fight to get a M badge on a car.

It signaled the wholesale pivot in direction of M to make cars RS like in nature. Sad, but in the end, we see this in the current lineup and why we see ZF transmissions instead of DCTs.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Man the new Throttle House video where they compare the M4 to the RS5 and Merc just shows how ugly it is. Looks like a damn kids toy next to those two beautiful cars.

Fast and ugly. A shame.

But I thought we're all buying one once this thing hits low 10's?

There is one great thing about being "slower," luckily we will only have to see the G8X from behind Although even that isn't the most pleasing angle...

I lost interest in 0-60 years ago. The M3 was never about 0-60, it seems like everything keeps shifting towards making these cars (not just the G8X but cars in general) faster, but then they forget to back it up with handling or feedback. The F90 I drove was in fact too fast, too short of an experience with incredibly high limits for the street, and most people won't take it to a track to exploit its capabilities. When I drove the F90, one question stayed with me: "How did BMW make a car this fast feel incredibly boring?"

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

But I thought we're all buying one once this thing hits low 10's?

There is one great thing about being "slower," luckily we will only have to see the G8X from behind Although even that isn't the most pleasing angle...

I actually just want a base 992 after seeing that other video.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I actually just want a base 992 after seeing that other video.

It's a good car. Minus the silly shifter...

Thankfully GT division realized how silly that shifter is and changed it for the GT3.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I actually just want a base 992 after seeing that other video.

It's not the first to say the base is best. Honestly, I don't think the margin between the base and the S (7MT aside) is as justified as it once was. You have to step up to GTS+ to get a serious difference. I'll be planning to order a T model in around 2023, hopefully with a 7MT, and hopefully for a summer ED.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Arcades

It's a good car. Minus the silly shifter...

Thankfully GT division realized how silly that shifter is and changed it for the GT3.

Apparently gt3 shifter design is different because Andreas uses pdk console shifter to manually change gears.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

It's not the first to say the base is best. Honestly, I don't think the margin between the base and the S (7MT aside) is as justified as it once was. You have to step up to GTS+ to get a serious difference. I'll be planning to order a T model in around 2023, hopefully with a 7MT, and hopefully for a summer ED.

Agree, I'm a big fan of going for the base Carrera, at least before when you could get a manual with it. Now my minimum would be the Carrera S for the transmission alone, but I find the base to be more than fast enough, and like that you work a bit more for the power in it. The Carrera T in the 991.2 was one of my favorite models of the prior generation. I also found that the Base Carrera and Carrera T had the best implementation of turbocharging among the Carrera models of the 991.2, the Tubro model is obviously a whole other level. I definitely would love to have one of those in my driveway in the future.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Agree, I'm a big fan of going for the base Carrera, at least before when you could get a manual with it. Now my minimum would be the Carrera S for the transmission alone, but I find the base to be more than fast enough, and like that you work a bit more for the power in it. The Carrera T in the 991.2 was one of my favorite models of the prior generation. I also found that the Base Carrera and Carrera T had the best implementation of turbocharging among the Carrera models of the 991.2, the Tubro model is obviously a whole other level. I definitely would love to have one of those in my driveway in the future.

Biggest caveat of a base Carrera is that it does not come with PTV (LSD) even as an option. Nor is MT available.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Biggest caveat of a base Carrera is that it does not come with PTV (LSD) even as an option. Nor is MT available.

Good point, forgot about that one.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Biggest caveat of a base Carrera is that it does not come with PTV (LSD) even as an option. Nor is MT available.

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Good point, forgot about that one.

Hence why the 992T version would be the one to get!

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I love the logic of 'i hate weight, i can totally feel how is fucks up the driving experience. So instead of car A that weighs 3800lb, I'd buy car B that weighs 4100lb'

So eating one piece of doodoo tastes awful and i hate it. So a better option is i might as well eat two doodos, because while i'm eating doodoo i muight as well get filled up

I tell you, i'd love to meet up with lots of forum members out on the track

Porsche.............

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

Apparently gt3 shifter design is different because Andreas uses pdk console shifter to manually change gears.

I use the shifter itself to shift on my M3 (formally gone M4), our old Macan S and my current Macan GTS. I do not like using paddle shifters, I never did. I like to hold my shifter on any car I drive. It's an odd habit but I just do it.

The only thing is, the Macan shifter is backwards, while Porsche finally flipped it on the 911/Cayman/Boxster, they didn't change it on the Macan still. You push forward to Shift Up and pull back to Downshift. It's so awkward it throws me off so I don't bother.

[RugbyBro]

So ended up at the dealer today since CA highways decided that they would claim another tire victim today (80 southbound by 4th street Berkeley if anyone local was wondering). And I ended up at the dealer to get a new tire. Got to spend a little time around and finally inside another G80 and had the following thoughts:

- I really liked Brooklyn Grey as a color
- Feels much smaller inside than it looks outside. Surprisingly it feels tighter/more cramped inside than it does in my F82 - my friend commented the exact same thing. This is quite a strange feeling because of the next point.
- It really visually feels like a 5 series looking out at the hood. Even with the seat in the lowest position, it visually looks like a bigger car from the drivers seat. This is further confirmed by the G20 loaner I got and it really feels bigger in tight spaces. So you’re in a clearly bigger car with a more cramped feeling interior - this isn’t a G8X specific quirk more of a G20/2 design carryover. I think this is intentional to give the driver the feeling/impression that the car is smaller than it really is on the G20 and what I assume the G8X will feel like, and it does a good job of doing so except in tight turns/areas
- in contrast to the two points above, F3X/F8X feels roomier (and more Spartan) in the interior but smaller looking out and when driving/maneuvering (again based on the G20 I just drove, but magic isn’t real and G8X will not change fundamental items like turning radius and the physical size of the car relative to other objects in close proximity).
I just do not foresee this being a car that people intentionally thrash around canyons or build into a track weapon, it really has crossed the physical size barrier that F8X was already straddling. Of course it will absolutely crush highways and any canyons with ease when it wants to, and getting back into yet another G series is further reinforcing just how far BMW has come in both making cars more comfortable (shockingly so in a good way) and more insulated. Obviously a G8X is NOT a G20, but having driven a M235GC, 330, M340, 530, 540, X M40, M5C, and X3M, I have a pretty good idea of how this thing will drive and the levels of insulation I’ll be expecting from a current M car on a G Chassis. Still final thoughts tbd for when I can actually drive one. I really think people will pick this up more because it’s a mini M5 at this point and it’ll be used in the same way an E60 M5 was/still is.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by F8SEVEN

It's not the first to say the base is best. Honestly, I don't think the margin between the base and the S (7MT aside) is as justified as it once was. You have to step up to GTS+ to get a serious difference. I'll be planning to order a T model in around 2023, hopefully with a 7MT, and hopefully for a summer ED.

Say what ???

The S has 65hp more than the base. It's the biggest difference ever. GTS will likely not have more the 30~40hp over the S as to not overstep in GT3 Touring teritory.

I was lucky enough to be able to drive a base C4 on track for multiple session and it is a pure delight to drive. The chassis is super communicative and responsive, you really feel like you are one with the car. The steering felt very tactile with plenty of feedback. Braking is phenomenal. While the power was adequate, (it is about on par with our RS3), it lacks a bit in excitment because the cassis is so much capable. It launches solid due to it's traction, but it falls short as speed builds up. I did a short test drive of a C2S on the street and the added power makes a big difference at increasing the excitment level. Driving dynamics seemed similar between the base and S, but I did not push the S much.

The S seems like the sweet spot of the 911 family, but I got tempted by even more excess .

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I was lucky enough to be able to drive a base C4 on track for multiple session and it is a pure delight to drive. The chassis is super communicative and responsive, you really feel like you are one with the car. The steering felt very tactile with plenty of feedback. While the power was adequate, (it is about on par with our RS3), it lacks a bit in excitment because the cassis is so much capable. It launches solid due to it's traction, but it falls short as speed builds up. I did a short test drive of a C2S on the street and the added power makes a big difference at increasing the excitment level. Driving dynamics seemed similar between the base and S, but I did not push the S much.

The S seems like the sweet spot of the 911 family, but I got tempted by even more excess .

Wonder to what extent the 4 drivetrain influenced perception of rolling acceleration. I was blown away on repeat passes of a 992 Carrera. He wasn't making it easy on me from 2nd through 4th gear.

Looks like 0.3 separates the 992 models per C&D quarter mile testing:

11.8 Carrera 4
11.5 Carrera
11.2 Carrera S

(5 mph trap speed differential between the base and S.)

With ~$20k separating the base and S, Porsche know what they're doing on pricing. Tempting, but I'd take a "stripper" base Carrera without hesitation and add just a few performance mods.