F80 brake pads for both DD and track

[kevinmkirn]

Hi,
This board has been a great help as I've upgraded my 2018 M3 comp for 6-8 track days per year down here in south Florida. I upgraded to Ferodo DS1.1 pads thinking I could use them for both track days and my short daily commute but the squealing is unbearable. I've bedded them in properly and they certainly work great on the track but I live in a condo and am not able to change them out between track days without taking them to a decent shop which is very inconvenient and time consuming.
I'd appreciate suggestions on anyone who has had better luck with dual use pads, perhaps the DS 2500 or others?
So far, I've had my shop install Ground Control camber plates and will be mounting square 18" Apex EC-7's with Nitto NT01's when they arrive in the next week or so. (Tire recommendations are also appreciated!). Changing the wheels/tires for track days is easy as there's a decent Firestone shop close by, but I don't really trust them with the brake pad work.
Thanks a bunch.

[jpy1980]

I live in an apt and it’s super easy to swap out the pads. Are you limited by space or afraid the management might not allow it?

BTW I currently have the DS2500 pads on there and I’d rather have another set that has better initial bite.

[avantix]

There's no easy answer here. Track pads need heat in them for optimal performance and during daily driving it's tough to get them to not squeal. Personally I would never sacrifice stopping power with less performing "dual use" pads for the sake of a quieter daily drive. I echo what jpy1980 said, changing out the pads is a 20 minute affair after the first couple of times. There's almost no way to make a mistake, it's super easy on these calipers. Essentially 2 pins and a retaining clip per caliper and the pads slide out. I do however understand the inconvenience of bringing it to a shop each time to get them put on and off if you don't do it yourself. My honest opinion is get the best track pads you can get for track days and stick to OEM pads for daily.

PS you're going to love those NT01s

[kevinmkirn]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I live in an apt and it’s super easy to swap out the pads. Are you limited by space or afraid the management might not allow it?

BTW I currently have the DS2500 pads on there and I’d rather have another set that has better initial bite.

I’m limited by space and I’m on the condo board...

[fiveninerzero]

I just put DS2500s on, they don't squeal on mine.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by kevinmkirn

I’m limited by space and I’m on the condo board...

Go to a Walmart or shopping center parking lot. Dot it at the track the day before. Go to a car wash.

[SYT_Shadow]

I've found the PFC11 compound to be very quiet after a track day. There isn't a true dual use compound... fortunately in the F8X it isn't hard to swap pads

[ano0oj]

I tracked with the DS2500 a few weekends ago and ended up DDing them until yesterday just because I didn't have the time to swap them back out. They do fairly well for DD, however I noticed the response and initial bite on the OEM pads was much better for DD. The 2500 were very quiet, so no worries there. Incredible for track use, I feel like I could've stopped on a penny if I had the skills..

I live in a high-rise building and honestly it's very easy to do a pad swap in the parking lot if your neighbors are okay with you taking up 2 parking spots for <2hrs. The time/effort it takes is very little compared to what shops will ask for, I was quoted $180 for all 4 pads swapped meaning it would've been $360 to swap before and after the track. Not worth it, it took me about 2hrs for my first time -- got it down to 1.5hrs this past weekend. I bought maybe $120 in equipment needed for the swap.

[pfl]

I run DSUNO pads and they cannot be DD'd. Too loud and I am used to loud pads but this is unbearable. I daily OEM pads. I have separate track wheels and tires so to get ready for track days, I just take an additional 5-7 min per wheel and swap pads.

[kevinmkirn]

Thanks again everyone. I'm going to try the DS2500 and see how they do as DD. For various reasons, I'm not able to change out the pads for each track day.

[FTP20]

Although it is technically a track pad I've had good results with Endless MX72 on the street and considering how tame they are on the street they work very well on the track. YMMV

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by kevinmkirn

Thanks again everyone. I'm going to try the DS2500 and see how they do as DD. For various reasons, I'm not able to change out the pads for each track day.

I know this thread is a bit old but I'm curious on how this worked for you?

Also in a similar situation where I'd prefer not to be swapping pads out all the time.

DS2500 seemed to work just fine on my modified (MHD Stage 2+) 335i in the street, didn't notice any extra noise or anything. Wasn't able to fade them on the one trackday I used them for, although I did get some brake pedal vibration at one point (along with the burning pad smell) so I think I did just about reach their limit.

So I'm considering getting these for my M4.
The M3/4 is faster so maybe it'll become an issue, or maybe the larger brakes offset this enough.

[ano0oj]

DS2500 are quiet however I will go with the DS1.1 on my next track weekend due to wanting a better initial bite. I think you will be happy with DS2500 overall, but may need some adjusting on the track.

[jballer123]

I also have ds2500 and they are great on street and good on track ,

[jmg]

Anyone tried the Endless ME20 or MX72?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jmg

Anyone tried the Endless ME20 or MX72?

Me20 with 800c max operating temp seems way insufficient for f80

Mx72 is advertised as “ minimizes dust and brake noise” and has an even lower mot of 700c.

Hard pass imho.

I briefly looked at endless for my wrx many years ago but it didn’t see like it was meant for track usage

[jmg]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Me20 with 800c max operating temp seems way insufficient for f80

Mx72 is advertised as “ minimizes dust and brake noise” and has an even lower mot of 700c.

Hard pass imho.

I briefly looked at endless for my wrx many years ago but it didn’t see like it was meant for track usage

I've been looking for this data on their website but couldn't find it. Link?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jmg

I've been looking for this data on their website but couldn't find it. Link?

me20

mx72

And from that second link, paragraph 1, sentence 1

MX72 minimizes dust and brake noise while being semi-metallic, improving braking performance at low temperatures.

Edit: for that it’s worth, here’s something I am considering for my 6TT based on convos with Gloc.

gloc r12

Note the much higher MOT than the endless pads you linked

[Suds]

I will be putting PFC-08’s on my new to me ‘19 M4. They are noisy but have a great cold bite even at my first stop in the Texas climate, stock BMW stock pads bite softer. I daily drove these for 2-1/2 years, about 25k miles on two sets of pads with about 3500 track miles. I wore each set of pads to about 1/2 thickness.

[The_Werm]

Originally Posted by Suds

I will be putting PFC-08's on my new to me '19 M4. They are noisy but have a great cold bite even at my first stop in the Texas climate, stock BMW stock pads bite softer. I daily drove these for 2-1/2 years, about 25k miles on two sets of pads with about 3500 track miles. I wore each set of pads to about 1/2 thickness.

Awesome, I just got them in the mail; excited to try them this Saturday at PBIR

[jmg]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

me20

mx72

And from that second link, paragraph 1, sentence 1



Edit: for that it’s worth, here’s something I am considering for my 6TT based on convos with Gloc.

gloc r12

Note the much higher MOT than the endless pads you linked

DSUNO has an average friction coefficient 0.48 over working temperature range of 200°-700°C.
MX20: Friction: 0,35-0,40μ, Heat levels: 150-800°C


I was thinking with a 800 max temp the Mx20 would be sufficient.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Me20 with 800c max operating temp seems way insufficient for f80

Mx72 is advertised as “ minimizes dust and brake noise” and has an even lower mot of 700c.

Hard pass imho.

I briefly looked at endless for my wrx many years ago but it didn’t see like it was meant for track usage

800 C = 1472 F - that’s a pretty high operating temp

Racing brake fluid has a MOT dry of ~600 F. Pads with a MOT of 1472 F are fine for track. Your sustained brake temps shouldn’t be < 1000 F. If you’re running a sustained 1472 F at the pad then you’ll eventually boil the brake fluid.

There are race pads with MOT of 1000-1100 C but those are typically used on cars with high downforce and real race tires. 800C should be fine for a stock F8x with stock iron brakes (stock rotor is the critical component because it can’t pump sufficient air thru the vanes to keep rotor temps in check) on stock/street tires (>=200 TW).