DTC Setting on Track

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes, that was quoted on official information, however it is a lie. Efficient is the most linear of all the drive modes.
The boostiness of Sport or Sport+ made me dislike the S55 more than I naturally do. Since I heeded James' advice I've found much more pleasure in driving the F8X

Be careful not to convey false information. You and James may prefer the Efficient mode, and that’s perfectly fine, but it does not mean it is un-dampened.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Be careful not to convey false information. You and James may prefer the Efficient mode, and that’s perfectly fine, but it does not mean it is un-dampened.

The most linear does not mean it is completely linear

The reason behind using efficient throttle on track is specifically because it is more linear than sport and sport+. I started the car off in Sport and he (James) reverted to Efficient, then said it was a more linear pedal that way. I did not argue at that point that actually I had read that Sport+ was the most linear throttle pedal... others maybe would, like the people who argue with Randy about how to go around Road Atlanta...

Of course everyone has opinions, which is great, but I'll take a BMW race car driver's opinion of what is more linear and what is less in a throttle pedal's settings over other sources of information

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by NYG

The best part about Sport + though is that the oil/water temps always stayed below 200F for me. There's a very noticeable cooling difference in that mode.

Alex at Alpine said something similar to me - that Sport + does have mechanical advantages beyond just throttle mapping.

Sport+ makes the powertrain feel decidedly turbo. The build up of power and delivery is lumpy and you couple the gear changes, it just makes it choppy. Very similar to my 3.5TT Raptor that I had to get retuned to make it more linear. I strongly favor supercharged motors like in my Evora - benefits of a linear NA-like power delivery with a lot more top end. I realize I am just stating the obvious that everyone knows, end rant.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

I remember reading somewhere here that Sport+ is the natural/unfiltered throttle setting whereas Sport & Comfort were toned down. I could be completely wrong about this, so someone who knows for certain please chime in!

I agree about Sport+ being quite unusable on the street. For around town I use Sport and for spirited drives I actually have been using Efficient lately

From the S55 Deep Dive and Interview:

In EFFICIENT mode, everything is more levelled out, with a high orientation towards comfort. In stark contrast is the SPORT PLUS mode, which pays absolutely no attention to any comfort factors. In SPORT PLUS, all filter functions are deactivated and the engine responds directly to movements of the accelerator pedal

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

The s55 has made me enjoy my s54 a thousand times more. 😅

[NYG]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

The s55 has made me enjoy my s54 a thousand times more. 😅

I love the S54 too but to be fair, the S55's reliability (untuned at least) and power is a nice change of pace.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by NYG

I love the S54 too but to be fair, the S55's reliability (untuned at least) and power is a nice change of pace.

Oh totally agree. Plus the torque is addictive.

Smoothness of power delivery... not so much.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

I think it's the opposite actually. That sport + is artificially boosted early in the curve making for non-linear power delivery relative to throttle position.

I'm not saying Comfort or Sport are perfectly linear, but sport + even on the street makes for a very unpleasant and non linear experience.

I guess it depends from what background you are from. I started racing with a modded 4 cylinder with individual Webber carbs that had 4 individual throttle bodies mounted less the 3" away from the intake valve and connected to the pedal with an actual mechanical cable. That car was touchy and grumpy to drive at low speeds, especially with the lightweight flywheel, since all of the power had to be managed with the first 10% of the throttle pedal travel at those lowly RPM. But when the RPM were kept in the power band, that throttle response and precision over the entire travel was pure delight. Sport+ with my M4 feels very similar to that setup, hence why it feels more "natural" to me.

Sport+ isn't meant for puttering around, it is meant for high RPM driving. I actually use the Efficient setting for my DD. Try going 80-90% throttle in Sport+ at 6,000rpm and floor it from there, you will feel the added pull, which means the full pedal travel is used in Sport+. You cannot artificially "boost" engine response in the high power range, the engine can only give what it mechanically and thermodynamically can. You can however dampen the engine response by delaying the signal given to the engine regardless of how fast the driver presses on the accelerator. This is what is what is done in the Efficient and Sport modes. Some drivers might prefer the dampened response, and that is perfectly fine. But I prefer for the engine to respond directly to my right foot. If I want a smooth power delivery, it is up to me to manage it .

[NYG]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

Oh totally agree. Plus the torque is addictive.

Smoothness of power delivery... not so much.

Facts

[Suds]

Now that I am driving a DCT car on the track I find myself rolling my ankle on the gas pedal to modulate throttle, kind of like throttle blipping a MT car on down shifts “heel toe style”.
I have been driving in sport and sport+ at the track, I only know this because I have a broken toe on the right foot and it hurts. I didn’t realize I was doing this to be smooth.

This is really apparent on the street when I want to carry a bit of a drift.

[USSEnterprise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I guess it depends from what background you are from. I started racing with a modded 4 cylinder with individual Webber carbs that had 4 individual throttle bodies mounted less the 3" away from the intake valve and connected to the pedal with an actual mechanical cable. That car was touchy and grumpy to drive at low speeds, especially with the lightweight flywheel, since all of the power had to be managed with the first 10% of the throttle pedal travel at those lowly RPM. But when the RPM were kept in the power band, that throttle response and precision over the entire travel was pure delight. Sport+ with my M4 feels very similar to that setup, hence why it feels more "natural" to me.

Sport+ isn't meant for puttering around, it is meant for high RPM driving. I actually use the Efficient setting for my DD. Try going 80-90% throttle in Sport+ at 6,000rpm and floor it from there, you will feel the added pull, which means the full pedal travel is used in Sport+. You cannot artificially "boost" engine response in the high power range, the engine can only give what it mechanically and thermodynamically can. You can however dampen the engine response by delaying the signal given to the engine regardless of how fast the driver presses on the accelerator. This is what is what is done in the Efficient and Sport modes. Some drivers might prefer the dampened response, and that is perfectly fine. But I prefer for the engine to respond directly to my right foot. If I want a smooth power delivery, it is up to me to manage it .

Definitely depends on your “background” we are in agreement there. I didn’t start racing shitty modded 4 cylinders with carbs, I started with an AP1 Honda S2000 which is one of the best motors of all time. My daily is a Lotus Evora 400 which is also one of the best power trains of all time. I won’t go into the other 20+ cars I have owned including an E46 M3, so lets just say the F80 isn’t even close to the top 5 best power trains I have driven. My standards for power delivery are much higher than yours apparently.

In fly by wire throttles, you can definitely boost throttle response. It’s a simple matter of amplifying throttle voltage at every stage of the throttle’s range of motion. Thats why pedal commanders and the various other gadgets of that kind are in business. They don’t “delay” any signal given to the engine, they just lower the voltage sent to the ECU relative to your throttle travel, which converts it into throttle demand after applying other data from various sensors to compute traction control, shift schedules etc. The tech is so ubiquitous that even most of my race motorcycles of the last 10 years have had it embedded into the various ride modes.

The best racers are those that are open minded and listen to everyone’s opinions, entertain different hypotheses, try them on track and then make up their mind. I could care less what BMW literature has to say about each mode.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

Definitely depends on your “background” we are in agreement there. I didn’t start racing shitty modded 4 cylinders with carbs, I started with an AP1 Honda S2000 which is one of the best motors of all time. My daily is a Lotus Evora 400 which is also one of the best power trains of all time. I won’t go into the other 20+ cars I have owned including an E46 M3, so lets just say the F80 isn’t even close to the top 5 best power trains I have driven. My standards for power delivery are much higher than yours apparently.

In fly by wire throttles, you can definitely boost throttle response. It’s a simple matter of amplifying throttle voltage at every stage of the throttle’s range of motion. Thats why pedal commanders and the various other gadgets of that kind are in business. They don’t “delay” any signal given to the engine, they just lower the voltage sent to the ECU relative to your throttle travel, which converts it into throttle demand after applying other data from various sensors to compute traction control, shift schedules etc. The tech is so ubiquitous that even most of my race motorcycles of the last 10 years have had it embedded into the various ride modes.

The best racers are those that are open minded and listen to everyone’s opinions, entertain different hypotheses, try them on track and then make up their mind. I could care less what BMW literature has to say about each mode.

I don't consider the early engines I used run to be shitty, quite the contrary actually. That's your interpretation.

I also agree that turbocharged engines such as the S55 have poorer response and less linearity than good NA engines. My S54 and S65 felt very similar to my early modded engines on track, that's why I liked them so much. They offered the best of both worlds through electronic management, sharp and responsive on track but still docile at low power for everyday usability.

You can change the relationship of the throttle pedal vs the engine load demand, but you cannot boost the engine response beyond what the engine is able to provide. You are limiting your view of what is happening in the various engine response modes, keep an open mind and you might understand that there's much more complexity going on with the throttle maps .

For my part, I have tried Efficient mode on track and hated it. Others will prefer it. Like I said, personal preference.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

I didn’t start racing shitty modded 4 cylinders with carbs

Not taking sides here but this had me

[SubzeroVR4]

I may be in the minority, but I prefer S3, DTC OFF, and Sport Plus everything else.
The tight steering allows me to be smoother instead of sawing at the wheel
The tight suspension is appreciated on the smooth tracks
The sport + throttle allows the additional cooling, and I feel the turbos spool quicker

The S3 gear changes are direct, but I wouldn’t call it unsettling. I’ve taken some high-speed turns around 80mph. I pulled that paddle to upshift into 4th gear, expecting some upset, and the car stayed planted.
Occasionally going in a straight line, it will bark the tires on the upshift, but only when I’m going straight, usually down the front or back straightaway. This is with PS4S and sometimes gets soft during the end of the sessions.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SubzeroVR4

I may be in the minority, but I prefer S3, DTC OFF, and Sport Plus everything else.
The tight steering allows me to be smoother instead of sawing at the wheel
The tight suspension is appreciated on the smooth tracks
The sport + throttle allows the additional cooling, and I feel the turbos spool quicker

The S3 gear changes are direct, but I wouldn’t call it unsettling. I’ve taken some high-speed turns around 80mph. I pulled that paddle to upshift into 4th gear, expecting some upset, and the car stayed planted.
Occasionally going in a straight line, it will bark the tires on the upshift, but only when I’m going straight, usually down the front or back straightaway. This is with PS4S and sometimes gets soft during the end of the sessions.

Don't disagree with S3 or TC fully off. Those are my preference as well.

S+ steering is only good if you love oversteering at every corner. Very hard to get the right amount of counter-steer as well. My lap times improved so drastically switching to comfort steering. I'm sure it's different from driver to driver but every F8x that I've told to use comfort steering over S or S+ told me they felt stupid for not doing it earlier.

The EDC is crappy from the factory so none of those settings will really be great at the limit.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SubzeroVR4

I may be in the minority, but I prefer S3, DTC OFF, and Sport Plus everything else.
The tight steering allows me to be smoother instead of sawing at the wheel
The tight suspension is appreciated on the smooth tracks
The sport + throttle allows the additional cooling, and I feel the turbos spool quicker

The S3 gear changes are direct, but I wouldn’t call it unsettling. I’ve taken some high-speed turns around 80mph. I pulled that paddle to upshift into 4th gear, expecting some upset, and the car stayed planted.
Occasionally going in a straight line, it will bark the tires on the upshift, but only when I’m going straight, usually down the front or back straightaway. This is with PS4S and sometimes gets soft during the end of the sessions.

I’m on the same page.

[ABenLauda]

My preference is sport+, sport+, sport+, DSC off. I love the sport+ sensitive throttle.

The only time I didn't prefer sport+ transmission was in damp conditions when the rears slip when shifting in the higher rpm ranges. Short shifted and everything was fine.

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

From the S55 Deep Dive and Interview:

In EFFICIENT mode, everything is more levelled out, with a high orientation towards comfort. In stark contrast is the SPORT PLUS mode, which pays absolutely no attention to any comfort factors. In SPORT PLUS, all filter functions are deactivated and the engine responds directly to movements of the accelerator pedal

I read that a while back and I feel it was more marketing than cold hard technical facts. I think it was the CEO of M saying that and he was probably trying to hype up the car.

Some tuners posted the throttle mappings on forums somewhere and you can see it's really just a different pedal mapping. Sport looked the most linear while sport + was clearly just more sensitive in the first half of pedal movement.

Really you should just go with whatever you find gives you the best modulation. Sport + may work for some people as while the first 50% is very sharp, you'll have more modulation above 50% throttle.
We know there are a few other behaviors governed by throttle mapping, such as the lower operating temp maintained in Sport+. However even in Sport mode on the track, I see the car realises it's been driven hard and drops the operating temp to the same level.

Efficient mode also closes the valve at low RPM and doesn't keep the turbos spooled up at low RPM/cruising, but on a track that won't matter as you'll be accelerating hard so the car will still keep them spooled up, and I imagine it'll also react to being driven hard and turn on the same behaviors as Sport+ in a track situation

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

I read that a while back and I feel it was more marketing than cold hard technical facts. I think it was the CEO of M saying that and he was probably trying to hype up the car.

Some tuners posted the throttle mappings on forums somewhere and you can see it's really just a different pedal mapping. Sport looked the most linear while sport + was clearly just more sensitive in the first half of pedal movement.

Really you should just go with whatever you find gives you the best modulation. Sport + may work for some people as while the first 50% is very sharp, you'll have more modulation above 50% throttle.
We know there are a few other behaviors governed by throttle mapping, such as the lower operating temp maintained in Sport+. However even in Sport mode on the track, I see the car realises it's been driven hard and drops the operating temp to the same level.

Efficient mode also closes the valve at low RPM and doesn't keep the turbos spooled up at low RPM/cruising, but on a track that won't matter as you'll be accelerating hard so the car will still keep them spooled up, and I imagine it'll also react to being driven hard and turn on the same behaviors as Sport+ in a track situation

I went for a drive last weekend and doodled a fair bit with the different engine response modes to validate what is being discussed here. It is very clear to me that it is way more that just a simple throttle pedal position map that is at play. In Efficient and Sport modes, there is a clear delay between throttle application a power delivery, where it almost feels like an auto-throttle that progressively rolls on the throttle even if the driver stomps on it. This is in line with pulls I data logged when I got my first F82 back in 2014. I personally do not like that. If I want to roll on the throttle, I'll do it myself. If I want immediate power delivery, I want to be able to have it. Like I posted previously, to each their own.

[Montaver]

None of the f8x throttle positions are Goldilocks. On the e9x sport throttle was the best and most linear. On the f8x I liked sport on track, but the first breathe of the pedal felt like 10pc throttle and then it scaled from there. Sport plus was a mess as a breathe on the pedal and it feels like 25pc throttle. Turbo engines just aren't very linear regardless.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Montaver

None of the f8x throttle positions are Goldilocks. On the e9x sport throttle was the best and most linear. On the f8x I liked sport on track, but the first breathe of the pedal felt like 10pc throttle and then it scaled from there. Sport plus was a mess as a breathe on the pedal and it feels like 25pc throttle. Turbo engines just aren't very linear regardless.

Exactly.

The CS is a little more linear on torque delivery than base/zcp but turbo'd cars need a lot of extra attention mechanically to make the power delivery smoother.