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      04-16-2021, 11:19 AM   #1
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DTC Setting on Track

I've seen a few experienced people mention that they run S1 or S2 when driving on the track. Is there any advantage to this compared to S3?

Trying to rationalize their thought process...

Is the thought that lower settings are less jarring for the crank hub to slip when tuned because of less abrupt RPM changes?

Could it be that the abrupt shifting unsettles the chassis in S3?

Slipping clutch more in S1 or S2 would create excess heat which I imagine would be worse?

I don't get it. Longevity maybe?
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      04-16-2021, 11:36 AM   #2
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I'm not concerned about the crank hub, as i have a stock drivetrain and my CS is under warranty. Same with the DCT and diff.

The faster shifts in S2/3 introduce an impact to the drivetrain which is not good for it. They also shock the tires and create microabrasions there.

Of course this is the internet, where everyone knows best. In my case, when James Clay switches from his M4 GT4 to my CS and tells me to run the throttle on efficient and the dct in 1/3, I don't argue about my minuscule understanding of track use in a M car and just do what he says.

I don't try to hard to convince people about this approach, but I let people know. I remember years ago watching some random dumbass argue with Randy Pobst about how some turns at Road Atlanta should be approached... since then I am clear that human stupidity is indeed infinite.
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      04-16-2021, 04:40 PM   #3
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Crank hub failures and drive settings are not related to each other.

You will struggle to find anyone who spun their crank hub on a stock tune no matter how hard they drove it.
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      04-16-2021, 09:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Crank hub failures and drive settings are not related to each other.

You will struggle to find anyone who spun their crank hub on a stock tune no matter how hard they drove it.
I am tuned, though. I'm not too stressed about spinning but it seems there is something to do with drive settings as manual cars have a much lower prevalence of SCH. Maybe I'm thinking of it all wrong but in my mind the situation that would cause the hub to want to spin is from quickly changing RPMs. The harmonic balancer/pulley wants to breakaway(spin) from the crank due to a sudden change in engine speed. The inertia of the pulley/balancer/valve-train makes matters worse.

Perhaps tuned cars are able to spin up RPMs/shifts faster and that's what causes more incidences. Idk, I'm just spitballing. If it's a fact that DTC has a higher prevalence of SCH, then I would think shift harshness matters.
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      04-16-2021, 09:57 PM   #5
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S3 chirps my tires when under hard acceleration in 2nd gear. I use S2 on the street and track.
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      04-16-2021, 11:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvy View Post
I am tuned, though. I'm not too stressed about spinning but it seems there is something to do with drive settings as manual cars have a much lower prevalence of SCH. Maybe I'm thinking of it all wrong but in my mind the situation that would cause the hub to want to spin is from quickly changing RPMs. The harmonic balancer/pulley wants to breakaway(spin) from the crank due to a sudden change in engine speed. The inertia of the pulley/balancer/valve-train makes matters worse.

Perhaps tuned cars are able to spin up RPMs/shifts faster and that's what causes more incidences. Idk, I'm just spitballing. If it's a fact that DTC has a higher prevalence of SCH, then I would think shift harshness matters.
Not to turn this into a SCH thread, but you could throw on a CBC and lock the crank bolt and pulley down. Easy enough to DIY with a little elbow grease
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      04-16-2021, 11:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvy View Post
I am tuned, though. I'm not too stressed about spinning but it seems there is something to do with drive settings as manual cars have a much lower prevalence of SCH. Maybe I'm thinking of it all wrong but in my mind the situation that would cause the hub to want to spin is from quickly changing RPMs. The harmonic balancer/pulley wants to breakaway(spin) from the crank due to a sudden change in engine speed. The inertia of the pulley/balancer/valve-train makes matters worse.

Perhaps tuned cars are able to spin up RPMs/shifts faster and that's what causes more incidences. Idk, I'm just spitballing. If it's a fact that DTC has a higher prevalence of SCH, then I would think shift harshness matters.
Not to turn this into a SCH thread, but you could throw on a CBC and lock the crank bolt and pulley down. Easy enough to DIY with a little elbow grease
Thanks for the suggestion but I already did. Install wasn't bad. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I'm not going to let it spoil an otherwise excellent car
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      04-16-2021, 11:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvy View Post
If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I'm not going to let it spoil an otherwise excellent car
Yes!!! Sanity prevails!!
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      04-17-2021, 12:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvy View Post
I am tuned, though. I'm not too stressed about spinning but it seems there is something to do with drive settings as manual cars have a much lower prevalence of SCH. Maybe I'm thinking of it all wrong but in my mind the situation that would cause the hub to want to spin is from quickly changing RPMs. The harmonic balancer/pulley wants to breakaway(spin) from the crank due to a sudden change in engine speed. The inertia of the pulley/balancer/valve-train makes matters worse.

Perhaps tuned cars are able to spin up RPMs/shifts faster and that's what causes more incidences. Idk, I'm just spitballing. If it's a fact that DTC has a higher prevalence of SCH, then I would think shift harshness matters.
Nah, it's a vibration issue at the root of it. The drive mode shouldn't change that.
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      04-17-2021, 07:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mvy View Post
I am tuned, though. I'm not too stressed about spinning but it seems there is something to do with drive settings as manual cars have a much lower prevalence of SCH. Maybe I'm thinking of it all wrong but in my mind the situation that would cause the hub to want to spin is from quickly changing RPMs. The harmonic balancer/pulley wants to breakaway(spin) from the crank due to a sudden change in engine speed. The inertia of the pulley/balancer/valve-train makes matters worse.

Perhaps tuned cars are able to spin up RPMs/shifts faster and that's what causes more incidences. Idk, I'm just spitballing. If it's a fact that DTC has a higher prevalence of SCH, then I would think shift harshness matters.
This is a myth, there is no correlation between SCH rate and transmission type.
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      04-17-2021, 07:47 PM   #11
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What if we drive in D3 at the track? I believe going to D2 will also change shift points and gear selection will be less aggressive making it more sluggish
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      04-17-2021, 08:15 PM   #12
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I never liked doing 3 of 3 or sport +. I'm rocking economy and 1 of 3 setting.
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      04-20-2021, 05:23 AM   #13
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I guess it is simply a question of personal preference. You should try the different setting and see which one best suits your driving style. That's the beauty of having those adjustments at our disposal.

In my case, I prefer the sharpness and immediacy of the shifts in S3 on a dry track. Never have I felt that S3 upsets the chassis in any detrimental way with R-comp tires. The DCT software is even smart enough to execute a butter smooth shift in S3 when it senses that the car is under lateral load so you can shift mid corner if needed. It has to be said that S3 can only really be used with DSC off, with MDM, S2 is preferable.

As for the throttle, I also prefer Sport+ as I dislike the artificial damping that is programmed in the Efficient and Sport modex. I want my right foot to dictate the power output, not the ECU.

Note: you should change your thread title to DCT for Dual Clutch Transmission, DTC stands for Dynamic Traction Control in BMW nomenclature.
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      04-20-2021, 07:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren720s View Post
What if we drive in D3 at the track? I believe going to D2 will also change shift points and gear selection will be less aggressive making it more sluggish
I think only with partial throttle it'll do that but regardless 3 on the trans felt best for me.

Steering always comfort; both sport modes are garbage. This setting impacted the cars behavior on track the most for me.
Suspension typically sport; never found sport + useful
Engine was sport+ out of early bad habits, so I got used to the throttle response but corner exits are going to be the most sensitive in this setting so if I did it all over, I'd stay out of it and probably use comfort or sport
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      04-20-2021, 10:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I'm not concerned about the crank hub, as i have a stock drivetrain and my CS is under warranty. Same with the DCT and diff.

The faster shifts in S2/3 introduce an impact to the drivetrain which is not good for it. They also shock the tires and create microabrasions there.

Of course this is the internet, where everyone knows best. In my case, when James Clay switches from his M4 GT4 to my CS and tells me to run the throttle on efficient and the dct in 1/3, I don't argue about my minuscule understanding of track use in a M car and just do what he says.

I don't try to hard to convince people about this approach, but I let people know. I remember years ago watching some random dumbass argue with Randy Pobst about how some turns at Road Atlanta should be approached... since then I am clear that human stupidity is indeed infinite.
James!

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      04-20-2021, 10:41 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by fanatic1 View Post
James!

such a great vid!! In the last laps you can see he's really pushing
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      04-20-2021, 11:37 AM   #17
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Such a narrow track and a bunch of different cars from different classes is asking for trouble. That video just makes me cringe!

But great driving!
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      04-20-2021, 11:38 AM   #18
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That's awesome -- do we know what tires? Your BFG R1's?
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      04-20-2021, 11:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post

As for the throttle, I also prefer Sport+ as I dislike the artificial damping that is programmed in the Efficient and Sport modex. I want my right foot to dictate the power output, not the ECU.
I think it's the opposite actually. That sport + is artificially boosted early in the curve making for non-linear power delivery relative to throttle position.

I'm not saying Comfort or Sport are perfectly linear, but sport + even on the street makes for a very unpleasant and non linear experience.
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      04-20-2021, 11:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
I think it's the opposite actually. That sport + is artificially boosted early in the curve making for non-linear power delivery relative to throttle position.

I'm not saying Comfort or Sport are perfectly linear, but sport + even on the street makes for a very unpleasant and non linear experience.
I remember reading somewhere here that Sport+ is the natural/unfiltered throttle setting whereas Sport & Comfort were toned down. I could be completely wrong about this, so someone who knows for certain please chime in!

I agree about Sport+ being quite unusable on the street. For around town I use Sport and for spirited drives I actually have been using Efficient lately
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      04-20-2021, 12:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
I remember reading somewhere here that Sport+ is the natural/unfiltered throttle setting whereas Sport & Comfort were toned down. I could be completely wrong about this, so someone who knows for certain please chime in!

I agree about Sport+ being quite unusable on the street. For around town I use Sport and for spirited drives I actually have been using Efficient lately
I think Sport felt the most linear but it's hard to really feel this considering the car has turbos and again, it will only effect the initial throttle. Once your beyond 50% throttle, I'm sure they're all the same. Best way to check would be to run an OBD2 with absolute and relative throttle monitoring.

The best part about Sport + though is that the oil/water temps always stayed below 200F for me. There's a very noticeable cooling difference in that mode.
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      04-20-2021, 12:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
I remember reading somewhere here that Sport+ is the natural/unfiltered throttle setting whereas Sport & Comfort were toned down. I could be completely wrong about this, so someone who knows for certain please chime in!
Yes, that was quoted on official information, however it is a lie. Efficient is the most linear of all the drive modes.
The boostiness of Sport or Sport+ made me dislike the S55 more than I naturally do. Since I heeded James' advice I've found much more pleasure in driving the F8X
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