1005WHP M4 Build

[MR RIZK]

Ok I will be the one to ask the dumb ass question. If u are not supposed to use Liquimoly what oil is recommended and what weight?

Is the oil recommendation in the box when purchased? What happens if u run a built motor with a tad loser tolerances and need a thicker oil? Do they supply different oil restricters in the box.

I'm not interested in tainting the thread about an oil debate, just genuinely curious.

And thanks for the updates!

[rnguyennnn]

Originally Posted by M3atl

Nice build and sucks that you're at 600whp. I'm sure that's why you built your car and went with Kratos turbos.

Have you ever tried to search for these pending patents? I tried as US current or pending patents can be searched for. I don't have the patent numbers but I'm sure ASR Kratos can provide them as it can be in the public domain. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's spent 8k or thinking about spending 8k that would want to know.

I have not bothered searching for patents as i personally don’t care if i buy patent pending products or not.

Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin

Thanks for providing this info; definitely appreciate you shedding some light on these turbos which many of us have been considering for upgrades. So it would seem these turbos aren't made for 1000rwhp and really are only 850rwhp efficient then.

I agree with you stating that the turbos should not be ran above 850whp but that is not the reason why i bought the turbos. I purchased them to run it harder than PS2+, which have been proven to run at 900whp(Maxpsi)

While i was tuning the turbos initially, it was highly emphasized that i should be able to run >1000whp given i have a built motor and the supporting mods but that was not the case once i started to run it hard on the streets.

This proof can be found by looking back at the “Kratos 1000whp+ Club” thread that was locked.

Since it is locked, that makes me the only member

Originally Posted by MR RIZK

Ok I will be the one to ask the dumb ass question. If u are not supposed to use Liquimoly what oil is recommended and what weight?

Is the oil recommendation in the box when purchased? What happens if u run a built motor with a tad loser tolerances and need a thicker oil? Do they supply different oil restricters in the box.

I'm not interested in tainting the thread about an oil debate, just genuinely curious.

And thanks for the updates!

If you read the report that i attached, Kratos recommends Motul 300v. No oil was included in the box when i purchase the turbos nor was an oil brand recommended to me.

I will no longer answer questions about the turbos that used to be on my car. If anybody wants to ask questions about Kratos or my previously owned turbos, please start a new thread so that my car’s build thread is not derailed.


——
Here’s a nice carbon fiber brake cooling kit that came in the other day. I do not like the design too much but it will do for now. I would rather have the air directed to the center of the wheel hub.

[MR RIZK]

EDIT2: This is a BP Engineering Example for a M2 which i think is closer to what you are after. Not sure if they make one for the M4.

* Deleted my first response as answered my own question.

[Sales@KRATOS]

We thank Ricky for chiming in and for providing the pictures and documents we sent to him after performing the service on his turbos. We again would like to set the record straight.

As stated in the service analysis that Ricky attached, it is clearly stated that the failure was caused by metal contaminants in the oil; not because of using Liquimoly oil or any pre-existing manufacturing defect for that matter. Contaminated oil refers to debris or outside particulates in the oil, not contamination from mixtures of oils or particular brands of oils used. We recommend Motul oil to all of our clients and have a strong relationship with the Motul company and belief in their products. Through out many years of oil testing we've found that Motul's 300V and Sport Ester have performed leaps and bounds beyond that of any of the competing oils we've tested. While it was also in the service analysis that the Motul 300V is the recommended oil, the Liquimoly oil he used was by no means the reason or cause of failure. As is clearly shown in the pictures that Ricky attached, metal contaminants and debris were found during the inspection of his turbos. Furthermore, the scoring to the outside of the bearing carrier as shown in the pictures could not have been possible without the metal debris being lodged between the bearing carrier and the bearing housing. While he may not agree with our assessment, the pictures and the symptoms that were showcased corroborate our diagnosis and prove the actual cause of failure which is hard to refute. It does not seem very much in the spirit of an "executioner" as he stated to perform a $2745.63 non-warranty service on his turbos free of charge.

There has been misinformation or misunderstanding about the cause of initial failure and confusion about a possible second failure. Demonstrating that it is not possible for our turbos to be rebuilt by a third party was done in effort to dispel the notion that these turbos failed a second time. We appreciate Ricky publicly clarifying that his turbos did not have a failure at time of third party inspection and that when they were sold, they were done so in working order.

As we have reiterated time and time again, we rate the KRAS55Bi’s at 85% of max adiabatic efficiency as we know it is a number that is very achievable for our built motor clients in the vast majority of cases regardless of supporting modifications. The KRAS55Bi’s are 1,000whp+ capable and have been the only commercially available system to be capable of this for some time now. In the excerpt listed below that we posted in April of 2019 (Before Official Release of the KRAS55Bi) we provided dynos at 1,066whp showcasing maximum adiabatic efficiency on one of our development cars. Our 1163whp dyno data posted clearly states that while this was at maximum power output this was achieved outside the range of adiabatic efficiency for our Bi system.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ghlight=kratos

We are displeased by the way this situation panned out but wish Ricky the best of luck going forward. We also ask that out of respect for Ricky and his thread that if forum members have any other questions or concerns regarding these issues discussed that they are more than welcome to reach out to us directly via pm or email.

This Dyno run of 1066whp/883wtq was produced @ 37psi in 92°F ambient conditions. The boost values for this dyno run is where the adiabatic efficiency of the KRAS55Bi shines while power continues to climb to the rev limiter and provides a nice, clean, and repeatable graph even in hot ambient conditions. We also feel the graph could have been even cleaner and would have made more power had ambient conditions been a bit cooler. All in all, we are very pleased that a system we rated as capable of 850whp can easily produce over 200whp more at a very consistent level.

The original data that was collected during this dyno session led us to believe that the drop off in power after 6300rpm was quite possibly related to limitations with valve spring pressure on the valvetronic side and/or stock camshaft profile limitations. To assess this issue further, we have been busy tuning on the dyno with Halim@HCP which helped realize the true underlying cause. The addition of the 4 Bar Map sensor added to the equation and required more time on the dyno dialing in the car as well. What we concluded is that we are in fact beyond the flow capabilities of the KRAS55Bi rotor group @ 41psi to sustain the power from 6300rpm to the rev limiter. However, we're not reluctant to admit that our original assessment was incorrect as we're still very pleased with the capabilities of our KRAS55Bi turbo system and newly collected data from our latest dyno sessions.

[rnguyennnn]

Let me set the record straight in my own thread regarding my car and previously own turbos.

Originally Posted by rnguyennnn

I had a slight whistling noise coming from my engine bay after less than 500 miles from receiving them back from Kratos's warranty work as stated in the Doc Race turbo kit thread. Therefore i had the turbos pulled for inspection and did all of the testing you can do to ensure my engine was not bad. My CarBahn engine passed every test with flying colors.

The turbos were simply disassembled and then reassembled to make sure that nothing was broken before i sold it. Since the turbos were still operational before i brought them in and nothing was broken upon inspection by my third party, i sold them.

I never found out what the root cause of the whistling noise was but my car is currently running perfectly fine with Pureturbos. I do not know what turbos i am going to run next but as of now, i'm going to enjoy the car as is around 600whp on 93OCT.

I did not state that they never failed a second time. I stated that nothing was found physically broken upon third party inspection. That doesn't mean something didn't fail with the turbos.

The car is running perfectly fine with Pureturbos and no other fix/modification was done to my car after i pulled the Kratos to swap in Pureturbos. Therefore whatever was the causing the whining noise was more than likely from the Kratos as the noise went away without me doing anything besides replacing the Kratos turbos for Pureturbos.

Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS

There has been misinformation or misunderstanding about the cause of initial failure and confusion about a possible second failure. Demonstrating that it is not possible for our turbos to be rebuilt by a third party was done in effort to dispel the notion that these turbos failed a second time. We appreciate Ricky publicly clarifying that his turbos did not have a failure at time of third party inspection and that when they were sold, they were done so in working order.

I had absolutely no intention for the Kratos to be rebuilt by Forced Performance. I had them dissasemble it and reassemble it to make sure nothing was physically broken so that i could sell it.

Yes, the Kratos turbos were still operational after i pulled them off the car for inspection by my third party. However, i did not put them back on my car to run it to make sure it was still working. I trust that a company with a reputation such as Forced Performance can put a turbo back together after taking it apart. Also, I was not going to pay my mechanic to install turbos and remove it right after.

The Kratos turbos were fun when they worked but i will never purchase another set again as PS2+ can be ran up to 850whp reliably.

If anybody wants to discuss my prior experience with Kratos or any turbos that i have experience with then shoot me a PM or open another thread regarding turbos so that everyone on these forums can be aware of what the S55 market has to offer.

As for Sales@KRATOS , lets not get in a keyboard warrior fight and we both go our own way. If you want to continue this conversation then you have my personal contact information.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by rnguyennnn

Right now, the platform is still young but i do not see it going much further until we get better control over the TCU and someone can crack the Flex Ray. ECUTEK is picking up in regards to tuning the platform and this gives us more options such as flex fuel but until the TCU is cracked, the platform will be limited. Again, this is what i think about the platform given how deep i am in it.

FYI -- https://bit.ly/2T3QFZw and https://bit.ly/2vNv0Nt

[rnguyennnn]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

FYI -- https://bit.ly/2T3QFZw and https://bit.ly/2vNv0Nt

I've seen this. It's still in development from what i last read. I'm waiting for someone to get a M150 running on their F8x

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by rnguyennnn

I've seen this. It's still in development from what i last read. I'm waiting for someone to get a M150 running on their F8x

There was a guy who attempted the Motec movement on here, but it looks like you've already seen this: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1464803