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      07-09-2019, 08:38 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
Engine remained the same ,its the sway bar thats moved forward. Fyi the most balance car would be mid engine set up ,and there's never a 50/50 weight distribution ever. More weight towards the rear is more optimal .
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You've beat the driver ,m3 embarrass a gt3/rs...yeah keep dreaming.
I suggest you spend some time at the track and stop discussing theoretical driving performance.

I don't take lessons on track dynamics from people who clearly haven't driven the cars they are discussing. It's like taking advice from a blind person touching an elephant...

Become a PCA instructor, be faster than I am with whatever you want to drive and then we can discuss opinions. Until then it's pure garbage

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 07-09-2019 at 08:44 AM..
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      07-09-2019, 08:47 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I suggest you spend some time at the track and stop discussing theoretical driving performance.

I don't take lessons on track dynamics from people who clearly haven't driven the cars they are discussing. It's like taking advice from a blind person touching an elephant...

Become a PCA instructor, be faster than I am with whatever you want to drive and then we can discuss opinions. Until then it's pure garbage
I'd love to invite you to our track event ,but unfortunately I am in canada. I own a 991.2 gt3 pdk and would love to see how godly you're on the track. If you're ever in Toronto hit me up
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      07-09-2019, 08:50 AM   #91
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I'd love to invite you to our track event ,but unfortunately I am in canada. I own a 991.2 gt3 pdk and would love to see how godly you're on the track. If you're ever in Toronto hit me up
the Glen isn't that far from you, the Canadian group goes down there at least once a year
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      07-09-2019, 08:58 AM   #92
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I've owned a FBO m4 ( 500 whp ) when it first came out ,with full coilovers ECT ECT ,moved on to a 981 cayman Gts ,991.2 Gts ,and now a 991.2 gt3. The f8x is a great car ,but a compromised car ,it does everything good ( not excellent) it's a jack of all trades, a good value. Wether you want to believe this or not ,when it comes to pure driving fun and/or track work the M can't hold a candle against any porsche sports car.

They're completely different car ,enjoy your m3 and stop comparing.
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      07-09-2019, 11:13 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
I've owned a FBO m4 ( 500 whp ) when it first came out ,with full coilovers ECT ECT ,moved on to a 981 cayman Gts ,991.2 Gts ,and now a 991.2 gt3. The f8x is a great car ,but a compromised car ,it does everything good ( not excellent) it's a jack of all trades, a good value. Wether you want to believe this or not ,when it comes to pure driving fun and/or track work the M can't hold a candle against any porsche sports car.

They're completely different car ,enjoy your m3 and stop comparing.
Agreed. Too many people like to go to HPDE days and claim they are the next Lewis Hamilton. Truth is, one guy is racing (the guy who later claims he “embarrassed” said car) when said car wasn’t even trying or racing.
Fact remains, it takes an IM or CM race prepped M3 to keep up with a bone stock 911 in competitor racing.

If bmw was so great why did they just get utterly embarrassed by Porsche in WEC and are currently getting owned in IMSA as well?

Fact is Porsche at their least capable is as capable of not more so than BMW at their most capable (ie 991.2S with summers faster than an m4 GTS on cup tires).
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      07-09-2019, 01:39 PM   #94
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It's crazy that Chin and others haven't implemented a Porsche-specific run group for safety reasons at this point. It could slot in just above advanced, regardless of driver experience.
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      07-09-2019, 03:47 PM   #95
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I dont get the constant Porsche/BMW comparisons. Porsche is a low volume sports car company with an entry price point MUCH higher than BMW. I would certainly expect that a 911s would best whatever top of the line M3/4 was available. At the end of the day the M3/4 is just a souped up commuter car, albeit a fantastic one, whereas the 911 and cayman are bespoke sports cars which also generally cost tens of thousands of dollars more. Why would it be a surprise that the expensive sports car would outperform the less expensive family car?
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      07-10-2019, 02:05 AM   #96
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I dont get the constant Porsche/BMW comparisons. Porsche is a low volume sports car company with an entry price point MUCH higher than BMW. I would certainly expect that a 911s would best whatever top of the line M3/4 was available. At the end of the day the M3/4 is just a souped up commuter car, albeit a fantastic one, whereas the 911 and cayman are bespoke sports cars which also generally cost tens of thousands of dollars more. Why would it be a surprise that the expensive sports car would outperform the less expensive family car?
Shame on you for bringing logic into the thread!
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      07-10-2019, 05:56 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sausage4 View Post
I've owned a FBO m4 ( 500 whp ) when it first came out ,with full coilovers ECT ECT ,moved on to a 981 cayman Gts ,991.2 Gts ,and now a 991.2 gt3. The f8x is a great car ,but a compromised car ,it does everything good ( not excellent) it's a jack of all trades, a good value. Wether you want to believe this or not ,when it comes to pure driving fun and/or track work the M can't hold a candle against any porsche sports car.

They're completely different car ,enjoy your m3 and stop comparing.
Hmm, I sense a bit of hesitation now after calling him out and he responds.
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      07-10-2019, 07:03 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
It's crazy that Chin and others haven't implemented a Porsche-specific run group for safety reasons at this point. It could slot in just above advanced, regardless of driver experience.
It's also entertaining to hear things about competition motorsports. So instead of 'I drive my GT3/whatever fast' it's 'my mommy can run a marathon', 'my daddy is 6' 6" '...

News flash: people on the forum are not pro drivers. So instead of making comparisons in Excel sheets and talking about mommies and daddies, perhaps they should focus on trying to drive their wonderful cars at a pace that E46s don't take them out.

Having actually codriven in races with a pro driver, people are wasting their time talking about what a pro driver can and can't do. Can a pro driver drive a 991 GT3 faster than a F80? The answer is irrelevant, as no one here is a pro driver.

Then you actually go to an AER race and a Cayman S is classed as a class '3' car, where even the neutered US-spec E36 runs.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 07-10-2019 at 07:10 AM..
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      07-10-2019, 07:50 AM   #99
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Hmm, I sense a bit of hesitation now after calling him out and he responds.
Sorry ,I don’t quite follow?
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      07-10-2019, 08:10 AM   #100
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Sorry ,I don’t quite follow?
I was just stirring the pot/giving you crap as it looked like you were backing down from the challenge of a track face off with SYT.
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      07-10-2019, 08:34 AM   #101
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I was just stirring the pot/giving you crap as it looked like you were backing down from the challenge of a track face off with SYT.
Lol if svt can make it down to Canadian tire mossport ,we maybe can set something up ,I’d love a friendly competition.
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      07-10-2019, 04:44 PM   #102
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What was the offer again? Free track time in my GT4 so you can whup me in a BMW and prove your point? Sounds like a fair deal
I will happy take out my 911 to the track inCA to play with f8x if someone on the forums will foot the bill

My older brother in Toronto will be easily convinced to take up free track time in his 981 Gt4.

Where do we sign up?!

On a similar note, there was a lot of talk on the model 3 thread about Guilia QV and F80 vs model3 and I wanted to organize a track day for some fun comparisons and no one wanted to do it.

I think there’s more interest in bench racing than tracking
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      07-10-2019, 04:45 PM   #103
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Lol if svt can make it down to Canadian tire mossport ,we maybe can set something up ,I’d love a friendly competition.
Hi, can you let me know too? I always try to do a track day with my older brother when I visit Toronto so would be cool if timing works out

I’ve only been once to big track, and not gonna lie, there are some intimidating corners there (especially when driving a borrowed gt4)
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      07-11-2019, 07:59 AM   #104
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My older brother in Toronto will be easily convinced to take up free track time in his 981 Gt4.

On a similar note, there was a lot of talk on the model 3 thread about Guilia QV and F80 vs model3 and I wanted to organize a track day for some fun comparisons and no one wanted to do it.

I think there’s more interest in bench racing than tracking
There wouldn't be any point in that... the offer is only for idiot fanboys and I doubt your brother qualifies. There are plenty of Porsche drivers that are great enthusiasts, you usually can distinguish them because they don't say things like 'any Porsche is better at the track than any BMW'.

The Guilia could be interesting, but you'd have to find one at the track in the first place. You almost have a better shot of finding a RS3/TTRS there...
The Tesla thing is just dumb... even though I look forward to running into one it's like looking forward to running into a Focus RS... what is the point? Slow as hell.

In years of doing this I've run into one RS4 that had an ok pace, then a friend's C63 Black which was also cool.

In real life you only have Porsches and BMWs plus a pinch of Vettes
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      07-11-2019, 10:08 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
There wouldn't be any point in that... the offer is only for idiot fanboys and I doubt your brother qualifies. There are plenty of Porsche drivers that are great enthusiasts, you usually can distinguish them because they don't say things like 'any Porsche is better at the track than any BMW'.

The Guilia could be interesting, but you'd have to find one at the track in the first place. You almost have a better shot of finding a RS3/TTRS there...
The Tesla thing is just dumb... even though I look forward to running into one it's like looking forward to running into a Focus RS... what is the point? Slow as hell.

In years of doing this I've run into one RS4 that had an ok pace, then a friend's C63 Black which was also cool.

In real life you only have Porsches and BMWs plus a pinch of Vettes
I was at Laguna Seca the other day for a HPDE and there were about 20+ Model 3s. Most were probably slow but one of them ran a 1:37.5 which is not slow as hell for a car that was not made to be on a track.

They're a lot more common out here than in your neck of the woods since I'm in Tesla country.
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      07-11-2019, 11:55 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
There wouldn't be any point in that... the offer is only for idiot fanboys and I doubt your brother qualifies. There are plenty of Porsche drivers that are great enthusiasts, you usually can distinguish them because they don't say things like 'any Porsche is better at the track than any BMW'.

The Guilia could be interesting, but you'd have to find one at the track in the first place. You almost have a better shot of finding a RS3/TTRS there...
The Tesla thing is just dumb... even though I look forward to running into one it's like looking forward to running into a Focus RS... what is the point? Slow as hell.

In years of doing this I've run into one RS4 that had an ok pace, then a friend's C63 Black which was also cool.

In real life you only have Porsches and BMWs plus a pinch of Vettes
The truth and a couple ZL1 1LE sprinkled in there.
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      07-11-2019, 12:21 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
I was at Laguna Seca the other day for a HPDE and there were about 20+ Model 3s. Most were probably slow but one of them ran a 1:37.5 which is not slow as hell for a car that was not made to be on a track.

They're a lot more common out here than in your neck of the woods since I'm in Tesla country.
I believe the marketing materials said it would be better than the M3, so I expect it to be better on the track as well. Maybe I should have said 'sustained performance' which is what most people in HPDEs are looking for

Electric cars are great for getting a divorce after you take your significant other from a standstill to 62 in under 3 seconds. They cannot expend large amounts of power sustainably, it is simply impossible, so my interest in them is zero until they can. And they will not be able to anytime in the mid term future

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      07-11-2019, 03:59 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I believe the marketing materials said it would be better than the M3, so I expect it to be better on the track as well. Maybe I should have said 'sustained performance' which is what most people in HPDEs are looking for

Electric cars are great for getting a divorce after you take your significant other from a standstill to 62 in under 3 seconds. They cannot expend large amounts of power sustainably, it is simply impossible, so my interest in them is zero until they can. And they will not be able to anytime in the mid term future
Yea, need to leave the event to use a DC fast charger frequently when tracking a Tesla since the track usage range is something like 60-75miles (from my own experience with a model 3) It can’t handle an “all you can drive” test days
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      07-11-2019, 06:35 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I believe the marketing materials said it would be better than the M3, so I expect it to be better on the track as well. Maybe I should have said 'sustained performance' which is what most people in HPDEs are looking for

Electric cars are great for getting a divorce after you take your significant other from a standstill to 62 in under 3 seconds. They cannot expend large amounts of power sustainably, it is simply impossible, so my interest in them is zero until they can. And they will not be able to anytime in the mid term future
Hahahaha
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