Official F8X Track Alignment Specifications

[MyFragileHalogen]

Originally Posted by Pong

@aswy6 , FYR, this was the outer shoulder of my previous PSS on stock alignment. there was no sign of cord yet, but the missing chunks got me worried.

That happened to my MPSS too when I was sliding the front tires a bit too much. The tech support at track told me overheating often causes that and I was advised to end my day due to those. You might want to check with an expert if it's safe to keep tracking with that.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

I agree, i am not after being the fastest guy out there so outer shoulder wear is not as much of a concern. What concerns me is the inner shoulder right now because i dont want it to cord 3 sessions into or before track. How far away is the cord in this case and should i just use this tire for my next track day on September 5th?

I have yet to see any premature inner tire wear after 3k miles of street driving with -2.6 in the front, 0 toe. In comparison, I've trashed the outside shoulder of a pair of MPSS in 2 track days on factory settings. My current MPS4S has lasted 4 track days so far with even wear.


edit: Also, it looks like you are on MPSS. MPS4S has beefier shoulders and different compounds on the inner vs outer shoulder. This could be why they wear different than the MPSS.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by jmg

I have yet to see any premature inner tire wear after 3k miles of street driving with -2.6 in the front, 0 toe. In comparison, I've trashed the outside shoulder of a pair of MPSS in 2 track days on factory settings. My current MPS4S has lasted 4 track days so far with even wear.


edit: Also, it looks like you are on MPSS. MPS4S has beefier shoulders and different compounds on the inner vs outer shoulder. This could be why they wear different than the MPSS.

Yes those are MPSS and i have brand new set of 265/285 of MP4s ready to go. I just put brand new rears yesterday and trying to decide if i should also replace fronts or run my current PSS (picture above) for one more track day. What do you think?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Yes those are MPSS and i have brand new set of 265/285 of MP4s ready to go. I just put brand new rears yesterday and trying to decide if i should also replace fronts or run my current PSS (picture above) for one more track day. What do you think?

With that kind of wear I'd be checking every session to make sure I could do the next. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker and it also depends on the track. Would you be okay cutting your day short? If it started to cord, are you okay driving it home? I've driven two hours home on chunked MPSS, but I was prepared to call a tow truck if needed.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by jmg

With that kind of wear I'd be checking every session to make sure I could do the next. Not ideal, but not a deal breaker and it also depends on the track. Would you be okay cutting your day short? If it started to cord, are you okay driving it home? I've driven two hours home on chunked MPSS, but I was prepared to call a tow truck if needed.

Eh i dont want to cut it short to be honest or call a tow truck. But again, this is inner part of a tire that im theoretically should not be really using right? Why would inner edge cord on track? Also im not going super fast either yet, only my 3rd track day

[Kung Fu English]

Got GC camber plates installed finally. I was going to go with a street alignment then knock them out for track use but I was told that's not really feasible due to the strut tower brace

But the alignment I think looks good so I'm excited to try it.

Running A052 stock sizes. But lots of street use in between.

[dvq]

Just installed my Vorshlag camber plates & Fall-Line rear toe arms w/ eccentric lockout and got aligned.

F: -2.7° camber | 1/16" toe out/side | 7.8° caster
R: -2.2° camber | 1/8" toe in/side

- Vorshlag camber plates are really nice, easy to adjust, and hopefully that huge spherical on top lasts a long time. No issues accessing the full adjustment range with the brace installed.
- Toe arms look nice too and sealed bearing should last a long time, got rid of some acceleration bushing deflection.
- Next up will be camber shims so the eccentric stops moving at track days.

Adding front camber has completely changed how the frontend of the car holds the road, it finally feel like a sports car.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Eh i dont want to cut it short to be honest or call a tow truck. But again, this is inner part of a tire that im theoretically should not be really using right? Why would inner edge cord on track? Also im not going super fast either yet, only my 3rd track day

I would be concerned that they are wearing abnormally at all. All conditions are magnified at the track.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

Got GC camber plates installed finally. I was going to go with a street alignment then knock them out for track use but I was told that's not really feasible due to the strut tower brace

But the alignment I think looks good so I'm excited to try it.

Running A052 stock sizes. But lots of street use in between.

That left versus right imbalance would drive some people nuts, it doesn’t bother me. This looks like a good middle of the road alignment for street and track. used to run something very close to this.

The last year or so I have not been daily driving my car much as well as pushing the car more so I’ve gone to a more track focused alignment and adjusting when I get to the track for further benefit, approximately -4.0° at the track. It’s surprisingly easy to go back-and-forth and as long as you get the toe settings done in your street position. The toe will change when you adjust camber, but it changes for the benefit when adjusting for the track - toe out. Again, important that you get something close to 0 toe for street driving.

Edit: strut brace does not get in the way, not sure what your shop means by this. You do have to flip two of the four bolts into the outboard position when going above approximately 2.6° of camber

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

That left versus right imbalance would drive some people nuts, it doesn't bother me. This looks like a good middle of the road alignment for street and track. used to run something very close to this.

The last year or so I have not been daily driving my car much as well as pushing the car more so I've gone to a more track focused alignment and adjusting when I get to the track for further benefit, approximately -4.0° at the track. It's surprisingly easy to go back-and-forth and as long as you get the toe settings done in your street position. The toe will change when you adjust camber, but it changes for the benefit when adjusting for the track - toe out. Again, important that you get something close to 0 toe for street driving.

Edit: strut brace does not get in the way, not sure what your shop means by this. You do have to flip two of the four bolts into the outboard position when going above approximately 2.6° of camber

The guy that did my alignment does a lot of bmw work and I race with him. I can ask him for more clarity. But he said he couldn't access all the adjustment bolts without removing the strut bar?

What do you mean about flipping the bolts?

I can try to get some pictures at some point maybe.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

The guy that did my alignment does a lot of bmw work and I race with him. I can ask him for more clarity. But he said he couldn't access all the adjustment bolts without removing the strut bar?

What do you mean about flipping the bolts?

I can try to get some pictures at some point maybe.

There is some interference at about -2.6°, this is where you flip the bolts from this so-called “street” to “race” position. But the interference is not from the strut bar.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

There is some interference at about -2.6°, this is where you flip the bolts from this so-called “street” to “race” position. But the interference is not from the strut bar.

Right that makes sense. What is the interference from? A different mounting bracket?

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

Right that makes sense. What is the interference from? A different mounting bracket?

Interference is from the aluminum bracket, just a function of hitting -2.6° of camber. Hence the need to flip to race position if you want to go to higher camber.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Interference is from the aluminum bracket, just a function of hitting -2.6° of camber. Hence the need to flip to race position if you want to go to higher camber.

Ok see pics. I think he didn't know to flip the bolts. It seems the front bolt is now covered by the aluminum bracket ><. Can I access it and get it moved do you think without disassembling everything?

When you do the basic alignment do you put the camber plate in about this position and then bang it to max for race? Or do you try to keep the camber plate in the minimum position?

If you leave it where it's at for the basic alignment how do you know where to go back to when you go from track back to street? Just make a mark on the plate or something?

Also do you recommend removing the rubber covers etc? Right now my plates make no noise or NVH at all I don't want to mess that up.

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by Kung Fu English

Ok see pics. I think he didn't know to flip the bolts. It seems the front bolt is now covered by the aluminum bracket ><. Can I access it and get it moved do you think without disassembling everything?

When you do the basic alignment do you put the camber plate in about this position and then bang it to max for race? Or do you try to keep the camber plate in the minimum position?

If you leave it where it's at for the basic alignment how do you know where to go back to when you go from track back to street? Just make a mark on the plate or something?

Also do you recommend removing the rubber covers etc? Right now my plates make no noise or NVH at all I don't want to mess that up.

Based on this image, you may have to remove the aluminum bracket to access the bolts. That is unfortunate and avoidable.

Yes, pretty much set to minimum possible with bolts in race position, Approx -2.6, then bang it to max at the track, approx -3.8

I did remove the rubber covers, but Southern California doesn’t get much rain.

[Kung Fu English]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Based on this image, you may have to remove the aluminum bracket to access the bolts. That is unfortunate and avoidable.

Yes, pretty much set to minimum possible with bolts in race position, Approx -2.6, then bang it to max at the track, approx -3.8

I did remove the rubber covers, but Southern California doesn’t get much rain.

Ok. I talked to him. He knew you could do it but wasn't sure about it. It's in maximum negative with street position right now.

I think I'll let this sit for this season then next season get it realigned like you said to minimum negative in race position and at least all bolts will be accessible. He won't charge me more to access it which is good.

Not sure if getting a vice grip around it to loosen it just a bit so we can slide it back out and remove the bolt is possible? Might be worth trying.

[aswy6]

Is it possible to somehow change camber without messing up the toe and without going to allingment shop?

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Is it possible to somehow change camber without messing up the toe and without going to allingment shop?

Changing camber changes toe, depending on how much change in camber will determine if it’s significant or not for toe - it’s not as much as you might think.

What works well for me is setting up my street driving settings with zero toe and moderate camber. Then adjusting at the track for additional negative camber which results in tow out: desirable for the track.

For street driving, -2.6° of camber and zero toe is acceptable. At the track, depending on tires, I’ll go as high as -4.0°

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by fanatic1

Changing camber changes toe, depending on how much change in camber will determine if it’s significant or not for toe - it’s not as much as you might think.

What works well for me is setting up my street driving settings with zero toe and moderate camber. Then adjusting at the track for additional negative camber which results in tow out: desirable for the track.

For street driving, -2.6° of camber and zero toe is acceptable. At the track, depending on tires, I’ll go as high as -4.0°

I killed inner shoulder of my tires with -1.8 camber and zero toe in 1.5k miles. I dont know how, may be my street tire pressure is low or may be its stock size PSS

[dvq]

Originally Posted by aswy6

I killed inner shoulder of my tires with -1.8 camber and zero toe in 1.5k miles. I dont know how, may be my street tire pressure is low or may be its stock size PSS

Something is wrong -- prior to camber plates i had -1.8 camber 0 toe in the front and -2.2 camber 1/8" total toe in for rears and my tire wear is just fine -- if anything my outer shoulder on the fronts wore down because of the lack of front camber and 2 track days.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I assume you are looking for rear specs based on your picture. I find -1.6 rear camber to yield the most optimal tire wear and grip for my conditions. I tried increasing to -1.8 and got uneven wear and sub-optimal grip, so I back down to -1.6.

As for toe, I find that decent toe-in brings more stability under braking. I use the GTS track alignment toe spec on my car.

My both front and rear should be at -1.8 and i noticed that weirdness at the front only. Rears are wearing fine for me. Also i went to track this weekend and after driving home for around 100 miles, i noticed that the whole tire is looking bubbly (as expected after track day) but that spot on the inner side is clean in just 100 miles.

[aswy6]

My rears have a little bit of toe in though