EXXEL Distributions
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-07-2021, 10:10 AM   #287
Reprosal
Private First Class
Reprosal's Avatar
Canada
27
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M4 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Esterhazy, SK, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Not arguing itís a full solution. Just think that itís blown way out of proportion for people running stage 2 or below and only 93/91/91ACN fuel.

Also bagging it will play a huge role too, as with any vehicle..
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2021, 04:18 PM   #288
MisterF80M3
Major
MisterF80M3's Avatar
918
Rep
1,102
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedPiston View Post
Correct, my answer pertains solely to my setup. However, you don't need my setup to spin the crank hub or experience any kind of mechanical failure. There's enough data on this subject for people to read up on, like this highly informative video for example:

Watch the first half of this video a few times, all the way up to the part where they try to break the crank bolt loose using a cheater bar. While it's possible for the bolt to loosen over time, either due to improper applied torque value at the factory, or engine vibration, the video will give you an idea of how much force is needed to loosen the bolt completely. And if the bolt was somehow loose from the factory, the crank hub spinning would likely take place early in the engine's life rather than thousands of miles later.

Meanwhile the friction disc that's keeping everything together is a known weak point. So if one were to place a bet on which component will fail first, which would it be? There's a reason why no manufacturer advertises the CBC as a full solution...
I think we have been through this 10 pages ago. Just read this thread from beginning to end and it has all the information you listed.

This summarizes the whole thread, IMO.

Quote from Deeldo:

Hub fix with no CBC = spinorama

No Hub fix with CBC = Never Spinorama

No Hub fix with No CBC = Spinorama

It looks like CBC is required only
__________________
2018 BMW F80 ///M3
570WHP/578TQ
Appreciate 4
      06-10-2021, 10:11 PM   #289
FriedPiston
Colonel
United_States
1535
Rep
2,510
Posts

Drives: Scraper
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East Oakland, CA

iTrader: (24)

Here's another one.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      06-11-2021, 12:03 AM   #290
Ejones4541
Private First Class
United_States
101
Rep
186
Posts

Drives: 2020 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Not sure why I even clicked on this post…it's about as captivating as a Kardashian blog.

Carry on guys.
Appreciate 1
      06-11-2021, 12:06 AM   #291
Reprosal
Private First Class
Reprosal's Avatar
Canada
27
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M4 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Esterhazy, SK, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedPiston View Post
Here's another one.
Full specs would be helpful. Brand of tune, fuel type, GTS Flash? And activity of the time.

With this many causes (regardless of protection) I would gladly take accurate data submittied and run RCAís on them to distinguish a better data trend than Ďvote here if spun over 500hpí. Evidence is needed.
Appreciate 0
      06-11-2021, 03:07 PM   #292
Chris@VargasTurboTech
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
1723
Rep
1,487
Posts


Drives: All Things TurboCharged
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

As I stated in other threads, been a while since I've seen a CBC only car spin a hub, but I've definitely seen several. It happens, it's much less common with CBC only, and if used in conjunction with a hub, risk is retired.

It's like it's coming full circle. I've communicated there are 2 main causes of SCH. We demonstrate how CBC addresses one of them, the spline lock V2 addresses the other. Make your own decisions and assess your own risk accordingly, but eventually the general consensus will gravitate back towards what I've been stating for many many months, if not over years; the complete solution is both.

It's not a marketing ploy. That's no conspiracy theory, that's just foolish logic; we didn't invent a problem to make a fake solution, we got tired of spinning hubs EVERY time we went out with the big power N54. That gets old. Flight. 5 hour drive. Shake down pass ok. Turn boost up *SPIN*. Do that a few times and you, too, will sit down and crack that nut one way or the other. Just be forewarned, there will be some dudes on the internet that think you're doing it for the money, 'course they weren't there helping you turn wrenches at 10pm trying to get a race car ready to go again. One has time for introspection in these moments.

Anyway.... for those just tuning in, CBC only is a great inexpensive means of reducing SCH risk. If you want to kill the risk, do CBC and hub. If you want to start at ground zero and re-engineer the whole thing and figure it out on your own, enjoy the ride, will see you right here in a few months if you do the work right. Hell, if you don't like our hub (V2 is IMHO the best, and has zero failures with many hundreds sold, need to look into that so I can say thousands soon) put a different solution in but do not run no solution and pretend you are immune. That's like wearing bulletproof socks and nothing else to a house of ill repute and thinking you're going to be just fine doing whatever comes naturally. Well.... maybe.... but more likely not. This happy post sponsored by two (2) pieces of pizza for lunch at my favorite place.

Cheers,
Chris
Appreciate 3
tom @ eas4959.00
jpy19801500.00
      06-11-2021, 05:34 PM   #293
Reprosal
Private First Class
Reprosal's Avatar
Canada
27
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M4 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Esterhazy, SK, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
As I stated in other threads, been a while since I've seen a CBC only car spin a hub, but I've definitely seen several. It happens, it's much less common with CBC only, and if used in conjunction with a hub, risk is retired.

It's like it's coming full circle. I've communicated there are 2 main causes of SCH. We demonstrate how CBC addresses one of them, the spline lock V2 addresses the other. Make your own decisions and assess your own risk accordingly, but eventually the general consensus will gravitate back towards what I've been stating for many many months, if not over years; the complete solution is both.

It's not a marketing ploy. That's no conspiracy theory, that's just foolish logic; we didn't invent a problem to make a fake solution, we got tired of spinning hubs EVERY time we went out with the big power N54. That gets old. Flight. 5 hour drive. Shake down pass ok. Turn boost up *SPIN*. Do that a few times and you, too, will sit down and crack that nut one way or the other. Just be forewarned, there will be some dudes on the internet that think you're doing it for the money, 'course they weren't there helping you turn wrenches at 10pm trying to get a race car ready to go again. One has time for introspection in these moments.

Anyway.... for those just tuning in, CBC only is a great inexpensive means of reducing SCH risk. If you want to kill the risk, do CBC and hub. If you want to start at ground zero and re-engineer the whole thing and figure it out on your own, enjoy the ride, will see you right here in a few months if you do the work right. Hell, if you don't like our hub (V2 is IMHO the best, and has zero failures with many hundreds sold, need to look into that so I can say thousands soon) put a different solution in but do not run no solution and pretend you are immune. That's like wearing bulletproof socks and nothing else to a house of ill repute and thinking you're going to be just fine doing whatever comes naturally. Well.... maybe.... but more likely not. This happy post sponsored by two (2) pieces of pizza for lunch at my favorite place.

Cheers,
Chris
I am not saying anything is a marketing ploy. I am just saying we have a lot of data missing from some of the causes. Sure the hub spun, but there could be causes based on flash brand, DCT GTS flash etc that could contribute to the issue too.

Some people have ran JB4 just fine with no fix, some people spun hun shortly after bootmod and DCT flash. Would just like more data in the tables to be collected.
Appreciate 0
      06-11-2021, 07:02 PM   #294
jpy1980
Lieutenant Colonel
jpy1980's Avatar
United_States
1500
Rep
1,966
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M3 -Smurfy Blue Vinyl
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
As I stated in other threads, been a while since I've seen a CBC only car spin a hub, but I've definitely seen several. It happens, it's much less common with CBC only, and if used in conjunction with a hub, risk is retired.

It's like it's coming full circle. I've communicated there are 2 main causes of SCH. We demonstrate how CBC addresses one of them, the spline lock V2 addresses the other. Make your own decisions and assess your own risk accordingly, but eventually the general consensus will gravitate back towards what I've been stating for many many months, if not over years; the complete solution is both.

It's not a marketing ploy. That's no conspiracy theory, that's just foolish logic; we didn't invent a problem to make a fake solution, we got tired of spinning hubs EVERY time we went out with the big power N54. That gets old. Flight. 5 hour drive. Shake down pass ok. Turn boost up *SPIN*. Do that a few times and you, too, will sit down and crack that nut one way or the other. Just be forewarned, there will be some dudes on the internet that think you're doing it for the money, 'course they weren't there helping you turn wrenches at 10pm trying to get a race car ready to go again. One has time for introspection in these moments.

Anyway.... for those just tuning in, CBC only is a great inexpensive means of reducing SCH risk. If you want to kill the risk, do CBC and hub. If you want to start at ground zero and re-engineer the whole thing and figure it out on your own, enjoy the ride, will see you right here in a few months if you do the work right. Hell, if you don't like our hub (V2 is IMHO the best, and has zero failures with many hundreds sold, need to look into that so I can say thousands soon) put a different solution in but do not run no solution and pretend you are immune. That's like wearing bulletproof socks and nothing else to a house of ill repute and thinking you're going to be just fine doing whatever comes naturally. Well.... maybe.... but more likely not. This happy post sponsored by two (2) pieces of pizza for lunch at my favorite place.

Cheers,
Chris
Good to have the old Chris back with his awesome responses!

It's really odd that some people think its a marketing ploy.
Appreciate 1
      06-11-2021, 07:34 PM   #295
fiveohwblow
Major
fiveohwblow's Avatar
United_States
2214
Rep
1,061
Posts

Drives: E70, E46 M3, F82
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Desert SW

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpy1980 View Post
Good to have the old Chris back with his awesome responses!

It's really odd that some people think its a marketing ploy.
I believe itís very easy to witness the fear based tactics simply on the division of belief alone, that comes mostly from the shops who make a killing on this particular issue. Itís evidence of existence is not in question. Similar to our little viral friend that shut down the entire world last year, when itís the lower half of single digits, the attention paid should fit the issue. It simply doesnít.

I find it hard to believe there is even a discussion on this any longer. Itís been said ad nauseam; can happen stock or modified. Can not ever happen.

Risk increases as power does.
CBC is less expensive and works most always.
Upgrade to E85, anything other than ďfull solutionĒ is a risk, but one many are willing to take. Including myself.
Appreciate 1
      06-12-2021, 10:46 PM   #296
Chris@VargasTurboTech
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
1723
Rep
1,487
Posts


Drives: All Things TurboCharged
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpy1980 View Post
Good to have the old Chris back with his awesome responses!

It's really odd that some people think its a marketing ploy.
I appreciate that, thanks. FWIW, I'm not on commission. Tony offered it to me way back at the start but I told him I like keeping my motivation pure, just pay me hourly or at a salary. Sure, the extra kick is nice, but this is not a full time gig for me. I'd rather take a little extra time and deal with people as I can. Tony accepts this; it brings another dimension to the team.

What people have to understand, pragmatically, is that regardless of the inclination (I have none; it is not in my value system, but I don't expect that to be bought wholesale; that's ok), I do not have the time or effort. I'm just an old(er) grumpy engineer that doesn't like a lot of crybaby engineers sniffling about "maybe" this could happen. I like TESTING. Spent most of my career there or associated with it. I'll tell you the straight poop right now; you slap a CBC only on your car, throw some upgraded turbos on with some ethanol and your silly backside will be spinning a hub eventually. I shoot it straight because that's what I would want to hear, not because I get a $5.21 kickback and a free Happy Meal from each sale.

Off topic but what I use is simply empathy, albeit tactical; I put myself in your shoes -best I can- and from what the customer tells me I then use my own knowledge as an extension of their own wishes -again, best I can. I'm good at it but not perfect by any means. I have told at least half a dozen dudes in the past year that I'd chance doing a CBC only due to their specific circumstances. When someone tells me their turbos are blown, first thing I do is at least a quick checklist to make sure it's not something silly like vacuum leaks, or jacked up actuators. If you want to know the truth, flawed humans as we all are, it's because I 100% believe that the best customers are repeat customers, and that happens when trust happens. Trust is established over time and many provings. Doesn't always work out, but that's the goal. Again, this isn't the best strictly business/growth strategy, but it's a good mix in a growing industry to keep yourself and your values planted. If that sounds sanctimonious, I apologize, I assure you I'm still an a-hole IRL, and now with about 400% more grumpiness due to my stupid hands not working well (Note to the Good Lord and the Fates; I remain grateful for my general existence and mobility regardless of internet ramblings. This message authorized by VTT Chris). I just won't lie to you beautiful SOB's.

Since the haters demand a sacrifice, I'll leave this one; of the times I've seen SCH, a generous portion of the time the valves were ok -a leak down test will confirm this. We're stacking variables, so you all have to know the possibility exists that you take 'er out for a Sunday drive and you slip the hub, bend ALL the valves, and get a speeding ticket in a school zone all at once. I just haven't seen it happen much. Stick that feather in your beautifully defiant "it ain't gon' happen to meh!" attitude, might get you a few more miles.

With love, respect, and adoration to the masses,

VTT Chris
Appreciate 2
Wanted_M242.50
      06-15-2021, 02:35 AM   #297
mmmmQuattro
Major
mmmmQuattro's Avatar
Australia
228
Rep
1,138
Posts

Drives: f83 / E93 335 / E70 X5 40d
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Thanks,
this really clears it up for me.
Looks like there is only one way to do it properly.

over hear in Australia, the 4 pin SSR kit is popular- anything wrong with it?
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2021, 03:27 PM   #298
mfurse
First Lieutenant
mfurse's Avatar
Australia
170
Rep
346
Posts

Drives: BMW F80 M3 2016 LCI
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Melbourne, VIC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro View Post
Thanks,
this really clears it up for me.
Looks like there is only one way to do it properly.

over hear in Australia, the 4 pin SSR kit is popular- anything wrong with it?
If you watch the video above it takes about the complexity of drilling the crank with 4 perfect pin holes and making sure they are straight. Nothing wrong with it, just risky and you won't necessarily know if one pin isn't in straight and sheers off. VTT spline lock pushes in under force and locks off (but is hard to then remove) and their own design for crank hub uses a single larger key position for simplicity of installation. Each to their own I guess.
Appreciate 0
      06-16-2021, 10:04 AM   #299
TopJimmy
Lieutenant Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1456
Rep
1,951
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro View Post
Thanks,
this really clears it up for me.
Looks like there is only one way to do it properly.

over hear in Australia, the 4 pin SSR kit is popular- anything wrong with it?
If you watch the video above it takes about the complexity of drilling the crank with 4 perfect pin holes and making sure they are straight. Nothing wrong with it, just risky and you won't necessarily know if one pin isn't in straight and sheers off. VTT spline lock pushes in under force and locks off (but is hard to then remove) and their own design for crank hub uses a single larger key position for simplicity of installation. Each to their own I guess.
My 4-pin hub included a jig and high speed drill bit for the precise hole size. The bit fits the jig so the holes are aligned and exactly in the right spots, and the jig also helps to bring any shavings out front of the hub. It's not like you use a sharpie and a bubble level...
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | Kies Hub | FBOs | 7sec 60-130 | 11.7sec 1/4mi@124
Appreciate 1
Wanted_M242.50
      07-25-2021, 06:04 PM   #300
Jim45678
Private
8
Rep
50
Posts

Drives: M3 f80
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: capital

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
Not much different considering the German company ordered 10 CBC's about a year ago. We were out of stock, and the website said we had some, they got extremely upset. They canceled the order, sourced one from one of our stocking dealers, and knocked it off.

Your best bet is sticking with the original, which is $80 cheaper...

In the US we will ship the same day ordered with 2-day shipping.

For all the Euro guys. We have a stocking dealer in the UK. RossSport: https://www.rosssport.com/Brands/Var...-M3-M4-N55-S55

They carry the complete spline lock kits and CBC's...
Chris, since the UK left EU do you have any other dealer selling CBC / Spline-lock chs?

I'm planning to be running around 600HP with DP/mid pipe / GTS flash etc probably bootmod or custom maps from local tuner. Still not decided if CBC only or together with spline-lock
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST