struggling on coilovers

[ntg44]

I went from Macht Schnell springs with stock shocks, then B16 Damptronic, then M Performance HAS on stock shocks. B16D was the best performing, but I couldn't live with it on a street car. Way too stiff, nobody wanted to drive in the car with me, and it gave my wife motion sickness almost immediately. M Performance HAS was by far the best compromise of drop, handling, and comfort for a street car.

If I was to do it all over again, I would have gotten B6 Damptronic shocks combined with Eibach springs. Combined with the B6D it will be near stock ride height, and is less harsh than the full B16D kit. The only reason I did not do this from the start is because B6 Damptronic shocks were not available in US at the time I was looking for them.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by irunalot

I couldn't sleep (work not suspension) so did a little searching of various forums about Bilsteins and found this post by Vorshlag:

https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...eview.1105281/

It discusses changing the PSS10 springs with 60mm springs to give you more spring options. If this can be done I will need new camber plates but will give it a try. I emailed Vorshlag this morning to see if they know the spring rate of the B16D and can suggest a spring length to get the proper amount of preload. Vorshlag already sells custom Hyperco springs so this may be what I need.

I still think that there is something going on with the install or how low it is versus designed specs. The clicking is not normal, period. If I read your post correctly or maybe making assumptions, am I reading correctly that you have camber plates installed? I do not which just adds another variable. I believe others have ran this kit with GC plates.

Running a helper/tender spring could eliminate the preload issue that if exists, would cause the spring slap you’re hearing but again, I go back to Mfg design intent running their intended spring setup at their designed lowering range.

I really can’t explain why Bilstein would tell you what they told you about using a regular 3 series spring unless they didn’t fully understand what kit/platform you were on

At this point if going through the hassle of finding new springs and such, you may want to use a different kit that allows more lowering with similar rebound/compression attributes and code out the EDC.

If EDC retention is a must, Tractive, KW (DDC, HAS), or MPHAS seem to be next logical steps.

Sorry you’re dealing with this. Gotta be frustrating for sure!

[applesauce683]

I had coil bind on my B16's after installing. Would pop when turning the wheel when stationary or moving slowly. I installed thrust bearings on the bottom spring perch and it fixed it. Not sure why thrust bearings don't come standard on all kits as I have seen coil bind across multiple platforms and suspension brands.

https://allstarperformance.com/beari...ring-all64210/

[irunalot]

That is exactly what it sounds like and exactly what its doing. Did you install the 2.5? The bottom spring perch is 60mm.

thank you!

[applesauce683]

Originally Posted by irunalot

That is exactly what it sounds like and exactly what its doing. Did you install the 2.5? The bottom spring perch is 60mm.

thank you!

yes, make sure to buy 2

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by irunalot

I couldn't sleep (work not suspension) so did a little searching of various forums about Bilsteins and found this post by Vorshlag:

https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...eview.1105281/

It discusses changing the PSS10 springs with 60mm springs to give you more spring options. If this can be done I will need new camber plates but will give it a try. I emailed Vorshlag this morning to see if they know the spring rate of the B16D and can suggest a spring length to get the proper amount of preload. Vorshlag already sells custom Hyperco springs so this may be what I need.

It's not difficult to retrofit different or conventional C/O springs onto aftermarket kits. I've done it a couple of times (below video is of a friend's).

One thing you need to be careful of is making sure the spring you're retrofitting has enough stroke for the load capacity. This typically isn't an issue for these cars when the springs are >350lbs/in. I'd go to 2.5" or 65mm springs since they have a bit more stroke than 60mm. That and the dust boots fit better in them (still a bit scrunched).

I find it curious Bilstein says "buy our 3-series B14/B16 front springs" because they don't sell those separately! They will tell you the spring rate of your B16D springs though if you ask.

Alternatively you can retrofit springs from another mfg. On my personal F31 setup I'm running KW F83 V3 springs on my B14 strut bodies.

[irunalot]

They actually did provide it, I'll post it here in case anyone is interested.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by irunalot

They actually did provide it, I'll post it here in case anyone is interested.

The F2x/F3x B14/16 front spring is 400lbs/in.

At the 515lbs/in range, you'll want a helper if converting to standard C/O springs.

[irunalot]

I have to admit that was stiffer then I expected, but i like how it feels. If the thrust bearings fix the noise I'll be thrilled.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by irunalot

I have to admit that was stiffer then I expected, but i like how it feels. If the thrust bearings fix the noise I'll be thrilled.

I've had the B16 going on over 2 years now and the stiffness was fine in the beginning and now got really old. Especially on a DD.

What really helped smooth it out was when I switched from a 19 inch wheel to 18 inch wheel with 40 profile tires. Note that this is with the CS EDC coding. Never ran it with my base M3 coding.

I also experienced some quality control issues with Bilstein: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1601185

Next time I would've probably just kept my stock EDC setup instead of going with an aftermarket EDC CO. Should the electronic component of the CO break, youre SOL. I'm over more electronics. =)

Heres how my car sits now:

[jaycdynasty]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I've had the B16 going on over 2 years now and the stiffness was fine in the beginning and now got really old. Especially on a DD.

What really helped smooth it out was when I switched from a 19 inch wheel to 18 inch wheel with 40 profile tires. Note that this is with the CS EDC coding. Never ran it with my base M3 coding.

I also experienced some quality control issues with Bilstein: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1601185

Next time I would've probably just kept my stock EDC setup instead of going with an aftermarket EDC CO. Should the electronic component of the CO break, youre SOL. I'm over more electronics. =)

Heres how my car sits now:

So do you think the B16 should worth for an upgrade? Or just get the PSS10 with a canceller to cut off the EDC?

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by jaycdynasty

So do you think the B16 should worth for an upgrade? Or just get the PSS10 with a canceller to cut off the EDC?

Really depends what you want coilovers for but if I had to get coilovers, I would go your route. The less electronic headaches will make it worth it. I mean check out this thread: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1092996


Plus it’s fun to tinker and lifting the car up and turning knobs is more fun than pushing a button

[dvq]

Originally Posted by irunalot

They actually did provide it, I'll post it here in case anyone is interested.

Those are surprisingly firm, I think the KW Clubsports are close at 575/800.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by dvq

Those are surprisingly firm, I think the KW Clubsports are close at 575/800.

Whoa...do you know what the v3's spring rates are? Ride must be super plush on those then.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Whoa...do you know what the v3's spring rates are? Ride must be super plush on those then.

Per Kw the V3's are 285f & 685r

[irunalot]

That's super soft

[dvq]

From what I've been able to search:

OEM ZCP
198 / 685

V3
285 Progressive / 685 Linear

V4
285 Linear / 685 Linear

ClubSport
456 Linear / 913 Linear (from kw documentation)
575 / 800 (quoted from a number of forum members)

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by irunalot

That's super soft

Thats what she said.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by dvq

From what I've been able to search:

OEM ZCP
198 / 685

V3
285 Progressive / 685 Linear

V4
285 Linear / 685 Linear

ClubSport
456 Linear / 913 Linear (from kw documentation)
575 / 800 (quoted from a number of forum members)

So between the v3 and v4, what are the differences going from progressive to linear? Sorry for the newb Q.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by dvq

From what I've been able to search:

OEM ZCP
198 / 685

V3
285 Progressive / 685 Linear

V4
285 Linear / 685 Linear

ClubSport
456 Linear / 913 Linear (from kw documentation)
575 / 800 (quoted from a number of forum members)

KW V3 front spring (marking 2041) is 226lbs/in. I got the number from KW themselves.

KW V4 front spring (marking 50-200) is 285lbs/in. The "50" in the marking stands for 50N/mm and the "200" is 200mm length.

Both V3/V4 use rear spring "120-200" so 120N/mm (685lbs/in) and 200mm long.

[irunalot]

I am perfectly happy with the spring rates of the Bilstein’s, but yes, they are stiff. They are also still new and only have 50 miles on them, so they may get a bit smother over time. The thrust bearings are being put on Monday so hopefully that takes care of the “popping”

The GC camber plates are a bit louder than expected and I probably should have chosen the Milwood street plates instead. These may get replaced fairly soon.

All that being said the car is on rails. The grip is in the stupid category.

[dvq]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

KW V3 front spring (marking 2041) is 226lbs/in. I got the number from KW themselves.

KW V4 front spring (marking 50-200) is 285lbs/in. The "50" in the marking stands for 50N/mm and the "200" is 200mm length.

Both V3/V4 use rear spring "120-200" so 120N/mm (685lbs/in) and 200mm long.

Thanks for clarifying, what do you run on your car?