Who loves their DCT? And 6MT owners have you tried it?

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's a funny post. Don't you realize that over the years, there are many features that have been added to automate (yes, you read that right, automation does not require electronics) the use of manual transmissions, such as synchromesh so you don't need to match the speed of the cogs, such as clutch dampers so even if you dump the pedal too quickly it still engages smoothly or auto rev match so you don't have to blip the throttle on downshifts. You may not realize it, but even a 6MT does many thing for you .

But I do understand the appeal of a traditional manual transmission and do agree: different strokes for different folks.

Yes, I realize there are automated aspects to even a manual transmission that make it easier - just meant that if you don’t perform several actions the car don’t go. Just like power steering makes it easier to steer, unless you turn the wheel you ain’t gonna turn

[Fast4d]

been driving manual trans for 30 odd years.

now I love my DCT it is an incredible piece of tech. It is just easier and less chance of driver introduced loss of traction when you are pushing 600+ with the rear tires. I never had (much) problems in the past driving a 700+ turbo 5 speed mustang for a decade but I guess I am getting old. I did have a torque arm tough.

I will get DCT as long as it is still available

[EricSMG]

My first F8X was a manual and now my second is a DCT. Same roads, same driver, very similar spec cars (both ZCP) and I am not happy with the DCT for this platform. I'm no stranger to automated gearboxes (hence my screen name) but I think the DCT detracts from this car.

From a purely objective standpoint, the DCT is far better. It's highly efficient and effective. But it's also far less fun in the real world.It's too smooth, too easy and too digital in an already highly digital car. Between the EPS, turbo-lag and DCT, this car is just too disconnected. The manual balanced out the EPS/turbo nicely, blending modern tech with old school feel, giving the car a true modern hot-rod feel. I also can't stand the low-speed DCT creep when you roll to a stop and don't completely stop.... extremely annoying. SMG never did this.

Further, the DCT has much shorter/closer ratios which is simply unnecessary with such a broad torque curve - the 6MT's ratios are far more relaxed allowing you to stay in gear longer. Case in point: the top speed of 3rd gear in the DCT is ~95mph while it's ~110mph in the 6MT. That's a massive difference in the real world. In my DCT car 3rd gear feels almost hamstrung relative to my 6MT car, which just pulled and pulled and pulled to the moon. While the DCT is quicker in an all out WOT sprint, the 6MT felt faster (because it was) in normal life, if that makes sense.

Yes, the DCT is the high(er) performance option but for me doesn't suit the S55 well (gearing) and is far, far less fun. Plus, the 6MT in these cars is one of the best BMW shifters ever designed. So smooth and refined yet precise and tight.... just pure bliss.

[zamboni]

Will the next M version would offer the DCT or just the 8 spds ZF tranny? Look at the M5 there is no longer DCT version available simply DCT is way to expensive for BMW to produce 6MT is the way to go.

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Will the next M version would offer the DCT or just the 8 spds ZF tranny? Look at the M5 there is no longer DCT version available simply DCT is way to expensive for BMW to produce 6MT is the way to go.

Until it’s officially announced its all speculation, but the S58 and ZF8 isn’t a bad combo despite not being DCT. I’ll leave closer comparisons to those who’ve driven both, but current cars with ZF8s aren’t exactly slouches.

[bagekko]

Most likely the 8spd ZF Auto. The Pure version will be available in 6mt and it will be probably the last manual in a M BMW.

In 7 years it will be ZF Auto 8/9/10 spds in all BMWS.... unless some next great thing comes along.

BMW's reasoning for dropping manual or DCT or anything else is all BS, its all about money and profits.... typical corporate BS watering down the product to save costs and boost profits.

But considering the future with EV's, hopefully hydrogen, and who knows whats next.... some transmission and gears is better than 1 gear lol like my i3.

Originally Posted by zamboni

Will the next M version would offer the DCT or just the 8 spds ZF tranny? Look at the M5 there is no longer DCT version available simply DCT is way to expensive for BMW to produce 6MT is the way to go.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by bagekko

Most likely the 8spd ZF Auto. The Pure version will be available in 6mt and it will be probably the last manual in a M BMW.

In 7 years it will be ZF Auto 8/9/10 spds in all BMWS.... unless some next great thing comes along.

BMW's reasoning for dropping manual or DCT or anything else is all BS, its all about money and profits.... typical corporate BS watering down the product to save costs and boost profits.

But considering the future with EV's, hopefully hydrogen, and who knows whats next.... some transmission and gears is better than 1 gear lol like my i3.

pretty much.

Theres a reason why Ferrari/McLaren/AMG GT/ Audi R8s/Porsche all use a DCT.

Plus a lot of DCT owners complained about how the m-dct slips the clutch in stop and go traffic and continuously goes back from 1st to 2nd to 1st at slow speeds. The easy fix is to just drive in manual mode, but that's too much to ask for some owners I guess.

[henrylee]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

My first F8X was a manual and now my second is a DCT. Same roads, same driver, very similar spec cars (both ZCP) and I am not happy with the DCT for this platform. I'm no stranger to automated gearboxes (hence my screen name) but I think the DCT detracts from this car.

From a purely objective standpoint, the DCT is far better. It's highly efficient and effective. But it's also far less fun in the real world.It's too smooth, too easy and too digital in an already highly digital car. Between the EPS, turbo-lag and DCT, this car is just too disconnected. The manual balanced out the EPS/turbo nicely, blending modern tech with old school feel, giving the car a true modern hot-rod feel. I also can't stand the low-speed DCT creep when you roll to a stop and don't completely stop.... extremely annoying. SMG never did this.

Further, the DCT has much shorter/closer ratios which is simply unnecessary with such a broad torque curve - the 6MT's ratios are far more relaxed allowing you to stay in gear longer. Case in point: the top speed of 3rd gear in the DCT is ~95mph while it's ~110mph in the 6MT. That's a massive difference in the real world. In my DCT car 3rd gear feels almost hamstrung relative to my 6MT car, which just pulled and pulled and pulled to the moon. While the DCT is quicker in an all out WOT sprint, the 6MT felt faster (because it was) in normal life, if that makes sense.

Yes, the DCT is the high(er) performance option but for me doesn't suit the S55 well (gearing) and is far, far less fun. Plus, the 6MT in these cars is one of the best BMW shifters ever designed. So smooth and refined yet precise and tight.... just pure bliss.

Very well said. The DCT is the faster shift, but the manual makes the car so pleasant to drive.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

Until it’s officially announced its all speculation, but the S58 and ZF8 isn’t a bad combo despite not being DCT. I’ll leave closer comparisons to those who’ve driven both, but current cars with ZF8s aren’t exactly slouches.

Well, again, I have driven both, and the ZF 8-speed is no match for a DCT.

I documented this in depth in another post, possibly in a different Bimmerpost forum (G80 forum, see link below), but long story short, during the BMW NA M Town Test Drive in June last year, I drove an M5 Competition, an X3M Competition, and an M2 Competition, back-to-back. The M5 and the X3M have the ZF, and the M2 has the DCT. The other vehicle offered was an M4 with DCT, but I already own one, so there was no point in test driving that one.

There was a noticeable lag when upshifting at full power in the M5 and the X3M. When lifting off the gas, or downshifting, the DCT has more noticeable engine braking than the ZF. All test driving was driven with the same setup I use in my M4, Sport/Sport+/Comfort, DriveLogic 2, and MDM mode so that it was as close to my M4 experience as possible. The test route was a designated ~20 minute route and included both freeway and street driving, with some of the street driving in industrial areas with little traffic.

Unless the ZF is configured or tuned differently than the X3M or the M5, I'll be hugely disappointed if the only choices are a manual in the base model or the ZF in the Competition Package model. I have no specific plans to buy a G82 at this point, but the huge grilles are even more of a turn-off than the transmission choices. I'll keep my F82 longer and see what the future holds.

Edited to add link to previous review of the ZF 8-speed: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=58

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Well, again, I have driven both, and the ZF 8-speed is no match for a DCT.

I documented this in depth in another post, possibly in a different Bimmerpost forum (X3M?), but long story short, during the BMW NA M Town Test Drive in June last year, I drove an M5 Competition, an X3M Competition, and an M2 Competition, back-to-back. The M5 and the X3M have the ZF, and the M2 has the DCT. The other vehicle offered was an M4 with DCT, but I already own one, so there was no point in test driving that one.

There was a noticeable lag when upshifting at full power in the M5 and the X3M. When lifting off the gas, or downshifting, the DCT has more noticeable engine braking than the ZF. All test driving was driven with the same setup I use in my M4, Sport/Sport+/Comfort, DriveLogic 2, and MDM mode so that it was as close to my M4 experience as possible. The test route was a designated ~20 minute route and included both freeway and street driving, with some of the street driving in industrial areas with little traffic.

Unless the ZF is configured or tuned differently than the X3M or the M5, I'll be hugely disappointed if the only choices are a manual in the base model or the ZF in the Competition Package model. I have no specific plans to buy a G82 at this point, but the huge grilles are even more of a turn-off than the transmission choices. I'll keep my F82 longer and see what the future holds.

definitely sad the M division is going this way. From your experience it doesn't sound like the ZF has changed much from what I experienced in my 2013 335.

Big delays in gear changes made me really frustrated when hustling the car around backroads... it honestly made me not want to push it hard because I wasn't sure when exactly I would get the downshift or upshift.

[Jason60051]

Love my dct...GTS dct flash is a must!

[Tommy L Garage]

Ed explains it very well why we are losing manuals

[icegrill]

I can't believe this thread is getting as much play as it is. Both are great, just a personal preference and obviously skill to drive a manual😬

I never liked the low speed behavior of the dct box. Plus I've never seen anyone with a license plate that says "GOTDCT"

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

There was a noticeable lag when upshifting at full power in the M5 and the X3M. When lifting off the gas, or downshifting, the DCT has more noticeable engine braking than the ZF. All test driving was driven with the same setup I use in my M4, Sport/Sport+/Comfort, DriveLogic 2, and MDM mode so that it was as close to my M4 experience as possible.

Edited to add link to previous review of the ZF 8-speed: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=58

Thats doing apples to apples settings in apples and oranges cars and may not be an ideal way to compare the two. For engine breaking, your comparing an 8 speed to a 7 speed that are geared differently. In the ZF you may want to downshift two gears, which is fairly instantaneous since it doesn’t have to go sequentially like the dct, to get the same RPM range and engine breaking.

I’d play around a bit more with he settings (drivelogic 3) and gear choices to get a better feel for it before making a final determination. I would also hope that BMW tunes the settings to the G8x platform specifically based on the platform and whether it is awd like the X3M and M5 or rwd.

If not, welcome back to the MT camp?

[BlackF82]

Originally Posted by PKL

After having Manual my whole life going back to a 1999 M3, for the past two years I have been driving a 2011 M3 with DCT.

Going back to manual now. All benefits of the DCT aside, it just isn't the same, the FEEL OF ROWING THE GEARS is priceless to me

I completely agree, I like the DCT a lot and its awesome but something about stick shift that makes me love and miss it. I wont sell my M4 just for that (because of financial limitations) but I wish I was a little more patient in finding a stick shift and different color too.

[tomlong]

The DCT is the secret weapon to our car's and one of the many reasons why we have done well against other comparable platforms. Enough for me to say that if I ever owned a Porsche, it would be PDK.

[Tintking]

Originally Posted by icegrill

I can't believe this thread is getting as much play as it is. Both are great, just a personal preference and obviously skill to drive a manual😬

I never liked the low speed behavior of the dct box. Plus I've never seen anyone with a license plate that says "GOTDCT"

I’ve never seen one that says “GOTMANUAL” , probably because it wouldn’t fit. I might see if “7SPDDCT” is available though.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by tomlong

The DCT is the secret weapon to our car's and one of the many reasons why we have done well against other comparable platforms. Enough for me to say that if I ever owned a Porsche, it would be PDK.

Meh. Accurate but pointless comment.

How a car performs against its competition has nothing to do with driving pleasure. Do you spend your life racing other people? If objective/measurable performance is all that matters then buy a faster car.

[Jim B]

I've been driving manuals for 50 years. Save the manuals!!

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by Jim B

I've been driving manuals for 50 years. Save the manuals!!

I've been driving manuals for 54 years. I even have a Car and Driver magnet that says "Save the Manuals" on the inside of the trunk lid of my Z4 M Roadster. But the DCT in my M4 rules!

[MrSlickk]

I really dont know what I prefer.. Unlike most people here I didnt grow up learning how to drive a manual. I didn't really know why anyone would even want a manual. My first car was an Automatic Nissan Altima and my second car was an automatic 335i. While I had the 335 few of my friends drove manual and I started to love the engagement it required, Being the car lover I was I spent hours on youtube learning about Manuals and how they work. After the 335 I jumped ship to my first Manual a 2017 JETTA! (Strange downgrade I know but it was needed). Anyway I spent 2 years in the Jetta and really learned manual as I went. When it came time to get my F80 I knew I wanted a manual. I had driven several DCT M's and while they were quick and the shifts were fun they got a bit boring. I've had my 6mt f80 for 6 months now and would probably get a manual all over again even though automatic/dct would sometimes be nice to have.

[doug_999]

Let's see, the OP asked "Who loves their DCT? And 6MT owners have you tried it?" While I'm not so sure too many of these responses were answering that... I will...

I am a 6MT guy and have tried the DCT - and yes, for more than 10 minutes. I think your point is, the DCT takes some getting used to (heck, I had trouble backing it out of the spot it was in since it has no torque converter and I didn't know that there is a trick to get the car to creep).

And yea, that thing shifts gears fast. But after 30 minutes, I couldn't wait to get back to my manual car. I really enjoy rowing the gears and having the "feeling" of complete control over the car.

And, in a few years, neither transmission will be around on most new cars